What Ever Happened to Baby Jane
00:37:01
About
It’s time for some Hollywood glamour on Welcome To Horror, as we ask “What Ever Happened To Baby Jane?” A film which gives some top tips for the family catering on a budget; introduces us to King Tut’s Cockney mum; and highlights the true diligence and observational skills of the LAPD. When it seems that a film exists primarily to pair two fading movie stars whose off-screen animosity was already legendary; it really shouldn’t be the masterpiece that “What Ever Happened To Baby Jane?” is. Director Robert Aldrich conjures stark Hollywood gothic, with lashings of cynical humour and a truly mean streak of domestic horror. Stars Bette Davis and Joan Crawford give career-best performances in territory that is unflattering anathema to their past glories, with their rivalry and begrudging respect for each other’s talents forging absolute gold. Budgetary restraints help the film feel more “real” as normal studio techniques were too costly, giving aspects of the film (particularly the location work) a near-documentary edge. Whilst “…Baby Jane” somewhat revitalised the careers of Davis and Crawford, leading both into further work in the horror genre, nothing can touch this macabre pinnacle. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
But ya ARE, Blanche! Ya are in that chair!
Famous lines
- "You wouldn't be able to do these awful things to me if I weren't still in this chair."— Blanche Hudson
- "I've written a letter to Daddy."— Jane Hudson
Quotes verified against Wikiquote.
Transcript
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UnknownGood evening and welcome to Horror.
LeeI'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamAnd I'm writing a letter to daddy.
LeeOh.
ChrisIn in that voice.
AdamYes.
LeeUm, yes, uh, for anyone who's unaware, we are here to cover the 1962 Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.
ChrisUm, how do we all sound so upbeat currently?
LeeOh, because I watched it two weeks ago.
ChrisAh.
ChrisJust me that shell-shocked currently then.
AdamHave you literally just come off it, Chris?
ChrisJust literally about 10 minutes ago. Oh, wow. Yeah, no, I'm glad I didn't with this one, because, I mean, not wishing to spoil it, but I loved this film so much more than I thought I was going to. I was just.
AdamYeah.
LeeBut, yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to record straight after it.
LeeBecause looking back now, having it up on IMDB and seeing the trailer for it, it just keeps reminding me how amazing it was, but yeah, at the time, it's so dark.
ChrisHowever, after the first two minutes, I'm I'm impressed that you got past that that first scene where the singing is going on and.
ChrisI was like, will he turn it off at this point? Will he make it?
AdamWhat, that was the weirdest thing is, I'd never I'd never realized, I mean, obviously, I've seen it, I've saw it years ago.
AdamBut and like it was a favorite, you know, I just I genuinely enjoyed it, it was Claire's first time seeing it, but like I was familiar with it.
AdamBut reading about it afterwards, um, that song.
AdamHe's specially written for the film.
AdamAnd it is so perfect to that sort of mokish, horrible sort of like two fingers down your throat, sort of Shirley Temple sort of Yeah, cutey, oh God, it's yeah, it was fucking horrendous. Oh, yeah. So.
LeeOh, yeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisYeah.
LeeIt is, it is, it's it is painful to watch.
ChrisMm.
LeeOh, and it only gets worse when she does it when she's older as well.
LeeBut I just.
ChrisYeah.
LeeI mean, it's got to be said right up top, there's no other way to describe it.
LeeThe performance of Bette Davis in this is quite possibly the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my entire life.
LeeShe is so horrendously awful and she plays it so utterly unbelievably and yeah, it's unbelievable.
AdamYeah.
LeeAbsolutely.
LeeAnd the problem is, I so I I watch lots of old films, but I do, you know, we always say it, you always make an allowance, don't you?
LeeSo you go, they were an actor in the 50s, it's very different to actors now, it was a very different time, they didn't have the schooling, it wasn't.
LeeSo you wouldn't put someone's performance from the 60s, from the 50s against now.
LeeThe performance in this blow anything I've seen in the last 20 years out of the water.
LeeIt is so fucking good from everybody in it.
ChrisMm.
AdamYeah.
AdamWell, because I mean, that's the thing is you are talking two proper movie stars, you know, it's not sort of because, because I think there's a lot to be said when it's like, you know, I I like a theater actor when they go on to, you know.
AdamA lot of people where they've got a theater background, it's really, you know, they come across really amazingly.
AdamBut yeah, Joan Crawford and Bette Davis, it was they were, you know, they were big.
LeeYeah.
AdamThe biggest thing at the time.
Adamstars and this is kind of like this is the point where they were, um.
AdamYou know, this was the point where that sort of star had started to fade essentially, because I mean, they were sort of like big through the 30s and 40s.
Adam50s and the usual sort of story is obviously, it's like an actress actress gets older and starts getting less roles or starts getting less flattering roles or starts getting less.
ChrisMm, yeah.
Adaminteresting roles or whatever like that. And, you know, so I think the.
Adamthey just grasp it with both hands and particularly Bette Davis is just like because it is not a flattering performance in any way, shape or form.
AdamBut she is so fucking good in it.
AdamAnd.
LeeShe gives it everything.
LeeAbsolutely everything to be the most.
Leeobnoxious, awful human being I've ever seen, it's just brilliant.
AdamSee, I think weirdly enough, I've always found it there is there is a lot of there's a lot of humor in it.
AdamBut it.
Adamlike the horrific stuff is fucking horrific.
AdamYou know, By the way, spoilers and swearing.
LeeOh yeah, yeah, well done.
AdamYou know.
AdamUm, but when she's like, when she's the sort of just the that cruelty that she's sort of building on.
AdamBut then it's like, you've got the the your bird flew away.
AdamThen she serves her the bird for dinner.
LeeYeah.
AdamThen she doesn't want to eat the next dinner because she's convinced it was something horrible and then it's not.
AdamAnd then the rat, and it's like just that sort of horrific sort of mind game thing going on.
AdamBut I think and the real thing that gets you though, is that fucking gut punch at the end.
LeeYes.
AdamWhere it's like, holy shit, she's made her this.
Chrisdidn't need to be, yeah.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah.
LeeI couldn't believe that.
ChrisNo, I I did not I didn't see it coming.
LeeWait, what?
ChrisYeah.
LeeI've never heard this twist spoiler.
ChrisYeah.
AdamIt's it's incredible, isn't it? Because weirdly enough, it's it's almost to a certain extent, it's only when I put the DVD back in and I'm like I I get to that because obviously, wonderfully.
AdamSo they have um they have younger actors playing them as children and then the point where it's the where Blanche has become a star and Jane is.
Adambasically flying on her coattails out of loyalty.
ChrisMm.
Adamis they don't show you them at that point because people know.
AdamA no what Joan Crawford and Bette Davis look like at that point.
AdamThey do show old films of theirs, like they use old clips from their from old films.
AdamBut so that opening sequence, you don't see them in the car, you don't see their faces and it feels, oh, well, that's a technical thing because obviously they can't portray themselves.
Adamyounger.
AdamAnd then you realize that actually you've been you've been sucker by what you've spotted is like a technical issue.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamBut it actually, you know, you suddenly go, holy shit, yeah, they didn't see.
Adamwhat happened at the start.
AdamYou just see two people in a car, but it's very non-descript and everything and it's sort of, yeah, just a.
ChrisThey lead you down that path that's.
ChrisIt's such a good fucking.
ChrisSlight of hand.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt kind of it because it almost is like, oh, we've put that in there and you're going, oh, well, they've done that because it's a limitation.
AdamAnd then actually it's like, no, you've been.
AdamYou didn't you you definitely I haven't seen that coming.
Leeplanned from from like scene one, just.
LeeEpic.
AdamIt's Yeah.
LeeSo good.
LeeBut like you said, I had the same as you had it, like I said, it's it was a very dark film, I did laugh most of the way through it.
LeeJust because it's it's it's so brilliant and I was just taken in by.
LeeAnd even the cruelty, it's so over the top.
LeeIt is.
ChrisIt is, it's kind of reaches that absurdity level, you know.
ChrisAnd yet still believable enough that it could possibly yeah, go that way.
AdamYeah, it's genuine Gothic.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamIt's not in not in terms of castles or.
AdamBut it is it is that level of sort of macabre.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamUm, but I also think and obviously, and so, I mean.
AdamI don't know sort of your awareness of it, but basically Joan Crawford and Bette Davis hated each other's fucking guts.
AdamAnd that had been a rivalry that had been going since like before.
LeeWhat before?
AdamYeah.
ChrisAll right.
AdamThey they basically.
LeeWhere did that come from?
ChrisI didn't know that.
AdamYeah.
ChrisBasically. I mean that might that might explain it.
AdamIt does, it does explain a lot. But yeah, so.
ChrisOkay, that's that's how you make a great film.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut I mean, I think what it was is so, um, where are we? Yeah, so it was basically in the 1930s, they sort of like were both stars. They didn't get on and a lot of people put it down to the fact that there was a an actor called Francho Tone, who was in the film Dangerous with Bette Davis.
AdamShe fell for him but he ended up marrying Joan Crawford and so there's a lot of but before that they were already a bit sort of like, you know, sort of rival stars basically.
AdamAnd they would often sort of snipe at each other in the press and in person and stuff like that.
AdamI've got this amazing quote from Bette Davis, one of the one of the things she said was that Joan Crawford slept with every male star at MGM except Lassie.
LeeOh.
AdamAnd sort of things like that, but the weird thing is is that Bette Davis was really obvious.
AdamIn the in the same sort of way that Joan is.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut Joan Crawford actually was a bit cruler and actually had a sort of like.
AdamSo she was sort of like, for example, Bette Davis was nominated for an Oscar for this.
AdamNow, um, Joan Crawford was an Oscar winner, Bette Davis won an Oscar had two best actress Oscars.
AdamAnd she was up for the best actress for this, Joan Crawford actively campaigned against Bette Davis getting the Oscar.
AdamBetter than that.
AdamIf you want shady shit.
AdamListen to this.
AdamOn the night, um, Bette Davis doesn't win.
AdamI think it was Ann Bancroft won.
AdamCouldn't make the ceremony.
AdamSo Joan Crawford accepted the award on her behalf.
AdamAnd so the Oscar photos for that night are Joan Crawford standing there with the best actress Oscar.
LeeOh.
AdamAnd it's just like and you see that sort of snippy sort of you know.
ChrisThat that's a proper counter though, isn't it?
ChrisThat's why.
AdamAnd it wasn't it wasn't like an unknown thing.
AdamEveryone knew they couldn't stand each other.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd so kind of the film like they they like they were both sort of getting to the doldrums of their careers as it were.
AdamAnd Joan Crawford basically wanted uh got involved with the director Robert Aldridge and wanted to make Whatever Happened to Baby Jane.
AdamAnd so she reached out to Bette Davis and Bette Davis agreed on the basis that she got the she got the Baby Jane part.
AdamBecause then it's.
AdamShe's got the name in the.
AdamWhat was it the two things she said it was like something like because again, I think Joan Crawford was just fucking hilarious, Um, sorry, Bette Davis was just hilarious.
Adambecause she was like, yeah, I accepted it because uh, I needed the money.
AdamAnd uh, you know, and sort of stuff like that.
AdamBut also she said, and also once Robert Aldridge had told me he wasn't sleeping with Joan Crawford, so I knew that I wouldn't just be I wouldn't get any closeups.
AdamAnd stuff like that and um, so yeah, but so that was kind of the selling point of the film.
AdamWas like, oh, there's these two stars who you know.
ChrisYeah, sure do.
AdamI've spent the last 30 years tearing lumps out of each other.
AdamNow we get to see him do it on screen.
AdamGodzilla versus Kong, you know.
ChrisI mean, that is arguably a very good selling point.
AdamWell, and apparently, so during the during the the making of the film, um, apparently Bett got a bit handsy.
AdamAnd was like, you know, because there is a slap in there where you're like.
AdamThat is not, you know, and there's not and there's lots of points where.
ChrisYeah.
Adambasically they've had to do it where Joan Crawford is reacting to Bette Davis, but they're not in the same shot.
AdamI think because they were like, no, better keep them apart.
ChrisYou can't, yeah.
AdamBut but even.
AdamEven fabulous things like this, so Joan Crawford was on the board of directors of Pepsi.
AdamSo Bette Davis got a Coca-Cola machine installed outside her dressing room so that the cast and crew could drink Coca-Cola.
AdamAnd it was just wonderfully petty.
AdamUm, and the bit where she's hauling, um, where Jane is hauling Blanche around the floor.
AdamUm, Joan Crawford got a load of weights sewn into her clothes so it would put.
ChrisAh.
Adamfucking Bette Davis's back out.
AdamAnd it's like, you know, it's mental, you know.
LeeOh.
ChrisI'll tell you what.
ChrisIf if they'd made a, you know, behind the scenes documentary of this.
LeeIt needs to be a producer film.
AdamWell, this is the thing, there is a TV anthology series called Feud.
AdamAnd the first series is Bett and Joan with Susan Sarandon as Bette Davis and Jessica Lange as Joan Crawford.
AdamAnd it's the guy, uh, Ryan Murphy, who did American Horror Story.
AdamSo he's got pedigree.
AdamUm, I I've never seen it, I just don't think it was on any channel that I was I had access to at the time.
AdamYeah. But I think it's definitely probably worth seeking out because you know, I think.
AdamBecause it basically details the the making of Whatever Happened to Baby Jane and it's sort of, yeah.
AdamSo it's all sort of like in there.
AdamUm, but obviously, yeah, and and then.
AdamIt was a massive fucking hit.
ChrisBut like, so, all right, how have I not heard of it before?
ChrisAnd Lee, did you say you had heard of it? I mean, you you said you had it like on the verge of.
LeeSo I I've heard of it as one of those like great films like Citizen Kane and that kind you need to see.
LeeUh, yeah, and Jennifer loves it.
ChrisOkay, yeah.
LeeSo it was one of those when I said I'd never watched it, she was like, I've definitely made you watch it at least three times.
LeeI was like, you haven't.
LeeShe said, I've seen it, like I never go that long without seeing it, I must have made you watch it at some point.
LeeI was like, no, you definitely haven't.
LeeUm, yeah, and we started watching it and I was like, why have you never made me watch this?
AdamYeah.
AdamBecause again, because again, it's just in that sort of it's in that thing like you were saying, it's it's an older movie, but fuck me, it's.
ChrisIt holds up.
AdamAnd and here's the shocker as well, and this is probably stun you.
AdamIt's two and a half hours long.
LeeYes.
LeeAnd it really does not feel it.
AdamBecause you think like an older film.
AdamYou're expecting like because it's it's such a rarity to see a film an older film at that sort of a length.
AdamEspecially like a big well, a successful production because it was actually quite a low budget film really.
AdamIt was sort of like.
AdamYou know, the the whole point was, oh, we'll bang all this together, we'll get these two together and they'll tear lumps out of each other.
AdamAnd then it's suddenly just it and it's better than that.
AdamIt's better than that should be, Robert Aldridge doesn't piss about.
AdamHe makes a fucking amazing film.
AdamEveryone in it is brilliant.
AdamAnd yeah, and it ended up making like it's box office back in under a month, it was that successful.
AdamAnd yeah, and like Robert Aldridge did like the Dirty Dozen and the Killin Sisters and Jules and Kiss Me Deadly and, you know, like.
AdamHe did a lot a lot of great films.
AdamBut this is, you know, this is just a amazing, I think.
AdamAnd the but the weird thing is is that there's certain touches in it that make it modern.
Adamthat are actually because of the low budget.
AdamLike, whenever you see Jane driving around LA.
AdamUsually what you'd do in Hollywood like productions at that point, it would always be back projection.
AdamYou know, you get the actor sat in the car and.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
Adamcontrol it more and everything else and it and it always looks shitty and false.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut it was just the way it was done.
AdamWith this, they couldn't afford to do back projection, the budget was too small.
AdamSo when you see her driving around.
AdamIt's the cameraman's in the back seat or on the bonnet.
ChrisYeah.
AdamLike and and let's face it, she's already an extraordinary looking figure.
LeeYes.
AdamAnd that must have been like quite a stir that there's like this sort of like pale faced doll faced lunatic with a guy on the front of her car driving up and down like Sunset Boulevard or whatever.
AdamAnd yeah, it's sort of and that was another thing as well.
Adamis um Bette Davis did her own makeup or like devised her own makeup.
LeeDid she really?
LeeIt looks so unhinged.
LeeIt's perfect.
AdamIt's so unhinged.
AdamAnd literally everyone said that to her, like the director and her because her daughters in it, you know, the next door neighbor, the the girl that.
AdamBecause that next door neighbor, Christ on a bike, that woman, you're just like a catalyst for every wrong thing.
AdamThat poor unknowing woman.
AdamBut her daughter, that's Bette Davis's daughter.
AdamAnd everyone's like, you've gone way too far with this.
AdamBut then when they sort of saw it on screen and in context and everything.
AdamAnd Bette Davis had said she wanted it to look like women she'd seen in LA, who looked like they didn't clean their makeup off, they just put more on, like every day.
LeeI think.
LeeHe's exactly what it looks like.
AdamIt it does, it's really.
AdamAnd yeah, again, there's I think everyone's just powered into this and feels rejuvenated from it.
AdamAnd I have to put a big, big fucking underline on Victor Buono who plays Edwin Flag, um, who obviously.
LeeYes.
AdamI I this actually I'm currently going through a uh 1966 Batman rewatch because he was King Tut.
LeeMm.
AdamOkay, but he was the villain King Tut in those.
AdamAnd I mean, he's fucking amazing in those Batman episodes.
AdamBut he is so good in this and so that's part of the I mean, like him and his mom.
Adamas well because that that actress who's I think she's actually Australian, but she is so sort of like perfect.
AdamI'll be your secretary, you know.
AdamAnd he's like he's this sort of like enormous mummy's boy who's like.
LeeI loved them, too.
LeeAgain, it was like and I I hadn't forgotten, but you do because you focus so much on Crawford and Davis.
LeeAnd then when I opened the IMDB and I saw those two on there, I was like, God, I've forgotten how much I enjoyed their performance as well.
LeeThey just yeah.
AdamAnd that's.
LeeI mean.
LeeIt's you mean you've got to step up, haven't you if you're performing in scenes with those two like, Jesus.
AdamYeah.
AdamAbsolutely.
AdamAnd I think well Victor Buono was nominated for best supporting actor for this.
LeeOh, was he on the on the way surprise.
AdamWell, I think this was like his first film, so that was that was probably another way that Joan Crawford was that her nose put out a joint.
AdamIt's like, hang on, so this this who's never been in anything, he's getting best support and she's getting best you get fucked.
AdamBut um, also he was.
Adamum, I was listening to it in the week, he did um, because I mean, he he's in um, he's in a really good episode of um.
Adamthe uh, what was it bloody called? Awesome Wells's great mysteries, who was a really good about that one.
AdamUm, but he obviously, he did sort of like he did a lot of sort of not slasher films, but sort of films like The Strangler and The Mad Butcher.
AdamAnd obviously, he's a big imposing figure.
AdamBut he is so pathetic in this, that it's just.
AdamBut he I mean, he's like, so he's 6'4 and 28 stone. You know, he's fucking enormous.
LeeWow.
AdamBut I've been listening to it, he did a comedy album called Heavy in 1971.
AdamAnd the opening track is just, I'm Victor Buono and I'm fat, not big boned like like friends will try and tell me, but fat.
AdamAnd it's just like sort of comic performance poetry about being a fat git, basically.
AdamBut it was, you know, that was just a genuinely little sort of thing.
AdamAnd uh yeah, uh Marjorie Bennett who plays his mom.
AdamYeah.
AdamShe's just so good because me and Claire were both like, oh, she's got to be.
AdamShe's got to be genuine cockney.
AdamAnd then we looked and it was Australian.
AdamIt's like, oh, cockney by the sea.
AdamThat's what.
LeeYeah, I was taken.
AdamThat's what.
LeeI was taken him by her accent.
LeeAbsolutely as well, so yeah, it was great.
AdamUm, and um.
AdamBut yeah, I mean and and although there are a lot of people in it.
AdamI mean, this could be this could be a stage play.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know, there's only to a certain extent, there's only really sort of like six main characters maybe.
AdamYou know, everything else is kind of incidental.
AdamAlso, um.
ChrisBut it's all about the relationships.
AdamYeah, well done the LAPD.
AdamYou're going to you're going to have dinner, you're going to have breakfast, not checking out, well, there's a car park funny there and uh, oh yeah, we're looking for these two missing women, there's a woman dressed as Annabelle on the freaking beach.
ChrisI mean, maybe that's not too unusual.
AdamOh, possibly.
AdamWho knows.
ChrisWe see all films, yeah.
AdamBut I think that I mean, like I say, I think they're just both so good in it and I mean, it's it's feels redundant to say.
AdamBut Claire said something very very true.
AdamAnd I think it really emphasizes towards the end when Jane.
AdamI mean, she's she's pretty much on the edge the whole way through.
AdamBut when she finally it's that last sort of fugue state and everything else like that.
AdamIt's not it's not mad, it's arrested.
AdamShe's still like a seven-year-old.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah, yeah, yeah.
AdamThat's what it boils down to.
AdamAnd actually, there's a lovely bit because she's great as well.
AdamElvira, the um the maid.
Leevoice very good.
AdamLike the the housekeeper.
AdamBut just that bit where she confronts her and it's like, no, you're going to have to grow up.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know, she she knows what the problem is, she's like, no, you're going to have to grow up and be an adult and deal with these things because you can't treat people like this.
AdamAnd, you know, it's.
AdamAnd um.
ChrisI suppose that does seem to happen to child stars.
AdamI I think to be honest.
ChrisThey do get arrested.
AdamI think it's fame.
AdamLook at Ossie Osbourne.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamBless him.
AdamOssie Osbourne was still a 22-year-old blood from from the.
Chrisfor a man, that's that's pretty young still, really.
ChrisMost have grown up.
AdamYeah that's where he was.
AdamRight up until Black Sabbath.
AdamHe was just, you know.
AdamHe that's when the that's when the fame and particularly when the money came in.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd yeah, he was stuck at he was just a amiable 22-year-old metaller from Brum.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately Jane was a spoiled monster.
AdamAnd stayed there.
AdamAnd I also think it's it's it's a very, I think it's one of those things as well where it's a very telling sort of there's there's a lot of cynicism in it.
AdamBut a healthy cynicism where it's like, no, this is the movie industry.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd this is, you know, this is like, well, look, she's she's the big star.
AdamSo we have to do what she says even though there's her sister's fucking talentless.
AdamBut and it's that whole, yeah, just sort of.
Leeand nepotism that's just unavoidable to some degree.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut I mean, I think.
AdamAnd also, I mean, if you, um, if you ever see it there's the clips from psycho bitches that are up online of Francis Barber and Mark Gatiss playing, um.
AdamCrawford and Davis.
LeeBrilliantly.
AdamThey are so good, so fucking spot on.
AdamAnd even there's uh, that I because I think that was the reason I first watched it is there's a uh Shakespeare Sister did the song Goodbye Cruel World and the start of that is them arguing.
AdamAnd Marcella Detroit going, well, you couldn't do these things to me if I wasn't behind this if I wasn't trapped behind this guitar.
AdamAnd she just turned around and go, but you are Marcella, you are.
AdamAnd it was like, and then I read somewhere, it was like, oh, that's whatever happened to Baby Jane.
AdamAnd that's I think that was the first prompt of me watching it and it was like, yeah, well, well done ladies because that is a fucking amazing film to have.
AdamBecause also weirdly enough, I think the other thing was the only other thing I'd heard about it was my mom who has a very good line in sort of recommending things with like genuinely horrific things in them.
Adamtelling me like, oh yeah, no, it's a film where she serves her pet bird to her because she's trying to torment her and it's like, fucking hell, man.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamIt's a bit strong when you're.
LeeAnd it is, and that's the thing, after the bird has happened, as soon as she says, by the way, there's rats in the cellar.
LeeAnd it is, it's that long drawn out of her just looking at the dish going.
LeeI I know and and we know it's under there as well and you go.
LeeMaybe it's not, maybe it's, oh yeah, no, it's it's definitely.
LeeA giant dead rat.
AdamBecause it's that classic bully thing as well because obviously there's the dinner in the middle where she's not looked under it, she's too freaked and she's too what.
AdamAnd then she just sits there and it's just it's just chops and she's just eating one in front of her.
AdamAnd yeah, it's just oh man, it's just such a terrific film.
AdamAnd so of.
AdamAnd I do genuinely think it definitely stands in in horror.
AdamI think it's.
LeeYes.
ChrisYeah.
LeeI was I was ready to question it in my mind before we started watching it because I was like, it's just about two women who share a house.
LeeThey're di to one another.
LeeI don't think it's horror.
ChrisYeah.
LeeBut I started watching.
LeeI was like, no.
ChrisIt does and and especially the end really solidifies just the whole thing as like, oh, that is I mean, it's bordering on it's like requium sort of territory, isn't it?
ChrisProper like, oh, what's going on there?
AdamWell, because it's you you realize that in in essence.
AdamBlanche has not brought it on herself.
AdamThat's that's not.
AdamBut she's obviously calling her making.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamYou've sort of built this, you've built the monster, you know, and it's sort of.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisYou think what should have been good really, isn't it? You surely the whole point of acting and being a star.
Christhat should all be great and yet the whole thing to just be so inside out.
AdamYeah, I think again, I think that's part of the cynicism.
AdamIt is like, this is this is the this is the the this is the underbelly, all these stars that you wanted, you know.
ChrisYeah.
Chrissee golden, yeah.
AdamAnd actually, they're probably quite and you know.
AdamI mean, to a to a greater or lesser extent, both Joan Crawford and Bette Davis were pretty monstrous in real life in certain ways, you know.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd but so obviously this does really well, um, and so both.
Adamboth of them sort of rejuvenates their careers and both of them go on and do sort of horror films.
AdamAnd um, Joan Crawford did.
AdamUm, they both worked for Hammer.
ChrisHuh.
AdamJoan Crawford's in the film Trog, which I admit, I've never seen.
LeeNo.
AdamUm, and then uh, Bette Davis in The Nanny and The Anniversary.
AdamUm, one of those is in, I think that's one of those is in that Hammer box you've got, isn't it, Lee?
LeeYes, The Nanny is in it.
AdamUm.
LeeAnd also I've got a I've got to mention again, Bette Davis in The Watcher in the Woods from 1980.
LeeWhat a excellent out and out horror that was, isn't it?
LeeI think as well God, that's terrifying.
AdamAnd and that's the thing is I think both of them, that wasn't really.
AdamIt certainly wasn't their genre, you know.
AdamThat wasn't where.
AdamThey were sort of but um and and like Joan Crawford ended up working with.
AdamWilliam Castle on a couple of films.
AdamUm, what was she, uh, Berserk, uh, no, I saw what you did and Straight Jacket, which is written by Robert Block.
AdamSo we're talking proper horror pedigree there and films like Berserk and things like that.
AdamBut I mean, and but I mean, she died in 77, um, but Bette Davis went all the way to 1989.
AdamSo she was she did a lot more post.
AdamUm, another recommendation I would say is Burnt Offerings with Ollie Reed and um Karen Black.
AdamFucking great film that is.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd.
LeeYou know what, I've got it somewhere and I've tried to watch it and I think I got about 15 minutes in and then I found it a bit uncomfortable.
LeeAnd I was like, I'm going to have to come back to this when I'm in the mood.
LeeAnd I don't think I ever went back.
AdamHer last film, um, is a Larry Cohen film called Wicked Stepmother, which apparently is really good.
AdamSo, again, might have to might have to check that out.
AdamBut yeah, I mean, like you say, there's The Watcher in the Woods, Return from Witch Mountain, she did, you know, they both of them sort of.
Adamthey realized that.
AdamAnd actually Joan Crawford's in that really good Night Gallery segment.
AdamUh, where it's the woman who um has new corneas transplanted.
LeeOh.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah, and um, and again, very much the sort of role of Uber bitch, you know.
AdamShe's not.
AdamShe's not a pleasant character in that.
AdamSo, you know, it's um.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut um.
AdamYeah, all in all.
AdamThis is a thorough recommend.
AdamIt's it's I put it in that same sort of place as like.
AdamBecause I think there's there's been a few sort of pastiches and things like that.
AdamBut.
AdamIt's not.
AdamAnd actually, the the other one that did.
AdamI think that was when my mom was telling me what it was.
Adamwas um French and Saunders did it.
LeeOh.
LeeI was thinking.
LeeI rewatched all of French and Saunders about a year and a half ago and part of me was like, they definitely did, I'm sure they did this.
AdamYeah.
AdamThey they they did that because they because a lot of it they did like stuff like Science of the Lambs and the Exorcist as well.
AdamBut yeah, they definitely did whatever happened to Baby Jane because they had to because again, that was like.
Adamwatching it with watching it with my family and like, what what is this meant to be?
LeeYeah.
AdamBecause it's because again, done like all their film parodies was done so well.
AdamAnd so true to the look of it.
AdamAnd you just like, no idea what this is.
AdamAnd then yeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeFantastic.
LeeYeah, I I just as I said, I I yeah, I I do I appreciate old films.
LeeBut as I say, the majority of time you do have to give it that kind of handicap to begin with and this didn't need in.
LeeAnd did you feel the same, Chris, like, it felt modern and.
ChrisYeah, absolutely.
Leebrilliant and yeah, I just I love the fact that they were they say big, beautiful stars.
LeeAnd then they were like, oh, now I'm a bit older, I'm going to play a horrible old bitch. They really, really were.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd and that's the thing is I don't think anyone, you know, it's neither of them are flattering roles.
LeeNo.
AdamSo, you know.
AdamAnd in fact, that's the wonderful thing with it, I don't think there's there's it's a very foble thing, the nearest you get to a neutral person is the neighbor.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd she is Andy Harris levels of, you're really, you really don't know how bad you're making this for that woman trapped in that house by just keeping on mate.
LeeYeah.
LeeAwful.
LeeWhat a what an amazing film.
LeeUh, yes, so anybody out there who like me has always thought, oh, it's probably one of those old classics that doesn't hold up.
LeeYeah, go out and watch it because it is genuinely incredible.
LeeAnd I saying the the runtime just buzzes by so fast.
AdamExactly.
AdamBecause that was the thing is when I when I dug it out and I was look because I was going to watch it like one night and it was like, oh, it was a bit late now.
AdamBecause I looked at it, I was like, I don't remember it being that long.
AdamAnd I was a bit worried to be honest.
AdamBecause I was like.
AdamBut no, it just yeah, just raps along.
LeeYeah.
LeeAbsolutely outstanding.
LeeUm, so go and check that out.
LeeWe'll be back in a fortnight's time for what we've been watching, so no homework to catch up on this time, people.
LeeUh, yeah, and we'll see you in a fortnight's time, I'm going to go watch Watcher in the Woods.
LeeI love I'm going to go watch Watcher in the Woods again, so I haven't seen it in years and I love that as a kid.
LeeIt's one of those over and over again.
AdamWatcher in the Woods, isn't it?
LeeSorry.
ChrisYes, you said that thing.
AdamYeah.
LeeIt's full on horror, it's horrific and horrible.
AdamThat's what I think.
AdamBecause I've never seen it.
AdamSo I'm thinking it might be on Disney Plus, I might have to give it a watch.
LeeOh, yeah, if it is, go and find it.
LeeI loved it as a kid, it's so creepy and horrible.
AdamNice.
LeeExcellent, right.
LeeSo.
LeeThanks ever so much for listening, everybody.
LeeOh, go and check out, Chris has been working on the website.
ChrisYes.
Leeso hard, it is absolutely out of this world what he's managed to do.
ChrisThank you.
ChrisSee what you can find on there.
LeeI I know you keep telling us the new stuff.
LeeBut I like just going and clicking on all the buttons and seeing and finding, I was saying if I was a listener, I would be all, I'd be like, right, who's my favorite actor, pull up all of their episodes or my favorite franchise.
LeeYeah, and just having all that at your fingertips now is.
LeeOh, it makes it so much more.
AdamIt's a phenomenal job, Chris.
ChrisI'm not stopping.
LeeYes, absolutely.
AdamWell, yeah, but I realized just how much we've got in there now that can be cross-referenced.
AdamIt's like, yeah, that's actually a really good database full of information.
AdamYou know, most of it Adam has unearthed.
AdamSo, yeah.
AdamIt shows the hard work you've put in.
AdamBy the power of Google.
AdamAnd the excellent insights.
AdamYeah.
AdamNo.
AdamIt's really good.
LeeYeah, yeah, it I've I've just blown away, but honestly, I don't think I've seen a website better than that.
LeeSo I'm absolutely that amazed by it.
LeeSo, well done, Chris.
LeeYes.
LeeYeah, phenomenal job, excellent.
LeeUm, yes.
LeeSo go and have a play on the website, go and listen to some old back episodes and we'll see you in a Fortnite's time for what we've been watching.
LeeGood night.
ChrisGood night.
AdamGood night.
LeeThanks, Chris.
