Dr Jekyll and Sister Hyde

0:23 Lee Good evening and welcome to horror. I'm Lee.

0:25 Chris I'm Chris.

0:26 Adam I'm Adam.

0:28 Lee And we're here as we discussed last time, we're going to be covering 1971's Dr. Jekyll and Sister Hyde, a film that neither myself or Chris have ever seen.

0:40 Lee Which, considering it's a Hammer film, I feel somewhat ashamed to admit I've never.

0:48 Chris They can't be, there can't be many that you haven't seen.

0:51 Lee Well, they did make a lot, but I think what always put me off with this one was it sounded like such a ludicrous trauma.

0:58 Chris Right, yeah.

1:41 Lee Actually, and we'll come to it, I don't think it was handled badly.

1:44 Chris It won't take us very long to get to that.

1:48 Lee So yeah, Chris, as it's tradition, why don't you kick us off with your thoughts?

1:54 Chris Yeah, within about, you know, three minutes you realize that the the title does not do this film justice.

2:01 Lee Yeah.

2:02 Chris It's like, okay, it's clearly got quirky bits, but done in a often subtle kind of way.

2:11 Chris and then you realize actually it's also got some pretty deep bits.

2:16 Lee

2:17 Chris Yeah, and and you know, the comedy is there, definitely, like, and the the darkness hits as well when it when it needs to.

2:27 Chris So yeah, I I totally did not expect it to be anywhere near as good and have as many different facets as it it did, and and for the age as well, it felt like very modern.

2:39 Lee Yeah.

2:40 Lee It it and it's funny, the thing that struck me is how differently it's shot from any other Hammer film, there's like a very kinetic filming style, which isn't what they do at all, and I don't know if it was because they were trying to do a lot of almost like first-person shooting so that they could do the transformations and things, but it didn't it felt like a Hammer film, but it didn't always look like a Hammer film, but it worked.

3:20 Adam It it wasn't so stagy, sort of, yeah.

3:28 Lee No, exactly, yeah.

3:29 Chris And I did expect the transformations to be a bit dated and even that, the way they've done it was like that holds up still.

3:38 Adam It's so good that one take, where you just follow around and it's like.

3:44 Adam And there's there's I mean it's obviously it's essentially, you know, you move move the mirror.

3:49 Adam So it's looking at someone else and everything, you know, it's a fairly simple way of doing it.

3:56 Adam But it just works so well.

4:00 Adam And it's much better than if you'd have sort of like had like overlay or you'd done like a Wolfman transformation, or the classic, they just go under the table and then come up.

4:12 Lee Yeah.

4:12 Chris Yeah.

4:12 Lee It looked fantastic. I was like I knew it was one of the things people talk about with this film is that one-shot transformation.

4:18 Lee And as you say, it's very easy to stage, but.

4:22 Lee It when it's done like this, it's so effective because, you know, unless you're looking for those.

4:29 Lee You're looking for the joint and there just isn't one.

4:32 Lee It's brilliant, it's so clever.

4:33 Chris And I think using the mirror as well is like symbolic of it's him but her, him, you know, so yeah, it's.

4:40 Adam Him well, him him becoming her and sort of like that shock and.

4:45 Chris Although ultimately him starting to disappear to her as well.

4:50 Chris I mean I don't I don't think I know the story that well aside from the obvious that it's.

4:55 Adam I mean it's Because I mean it's split personality type.

5:01 Adam Yeah, cuz I mean I think cuz I I don't think that this does the classic Jekyll and Hyde thing.

5:07 Chris No, yeah.

5:07 Adam Where it's the cuz it's always Jekyll's quite saintly and in the original, yeah, and then he expresses himself through Hyde.

5:17 Adam But again, it could be like, you know, there's an element of repression that it's because he keeps his darkness in that when it's unleashed, it becomes monstrous and stuff like that.

5:28 Adam And I don't think that this follows that pattern, mostly because Jekyll's a fucking murderer.

5:35 Lee Yeah.

5:36 Adam You know, he is he is killing to achieve his goals.

5:40 Adam So it doesn't work in that sense.

5:42 Adam But it's just that sort of.

5:43 Chris I did quite like the philosophical idea of to some degree it feels like he might be doing good, so he has to do the bad to do good.

5:53 Lee Yeah.

5:54 Chris Obviously, you're still doing a lot of very bad.

5:56 Chris But it's.

5:57 Adam And it's well, it's that love it's that lovely thing as well where it's like because where he's told, oh well, you're if you're working on this, you know, you're working on a universal panacea.

6:07 Adam But if you're going to solve it one disease at a time, you will never have the time to do it.

6:14 Adam And it's just like the sort of essentially the arrogance of.

6:21 Chris Yeah.

6:22 Adam Oh, well, okay, well, what I'll do is I'll extend the human lifespan.

6:29 Lee Yeah, yeah.

6:29 Adam And then I'll have time to work on my universal panacea.

6:34 Adam And it's you know, quite a bold sort of like idea that you're just going to.

6:40 Adam Yeah, it's not it, you know, well, I'll I'll do that, I'll do that first, because that solves that problem.

6:45 Adam And.

6:46 Adam But I mean I I think this is cuz I think there's there was a lot of there was always this thing, especially when I was sort of growing up and first getting into Hammer and reading about Hammer and stuff like that.

6:54 Adam Is there's always a thing that the the first bit of Hammer's really good, then it sort of loses its way and it never gets it back.

7:01 Adam And I think there's some excellent later Hammer.

7:08 Lee Yeah.

7:08 Adam Which this is, cuz I mean obviously Hammer's running from like the the horror cycle is running from the fifties, through the sixties, through the seventies.

7:15 Adam And they only really start losing their way at the point that horror sort of revamps a few years later when you've got like The Exorcist and things like that.

7:23 Adam And suddenly like it's the game really changes.

7:27 Adam And there's no that sort of gothic horror falls out of fashion essentially.

7:34 Adam But these ones, and it's like when we did The Witches and we did Plague of Zombies, it's all these ones that sort of got thrown by the wayside where they were like, well, you've not got Dracula in it, you've not got Frankenstein in it, it's not it's not going to be.

7:50 Adam You know, they're they're the sort of lesser ones.

7:56 Adam And actually a lot of them are the better ones or they've got more in them.

7:59 Adam Or they've been allowed to have more in them, you know, people have given a bit more rein with it.

8:05 Lee Yeah, so I struggled, I had to I struggled to find a copy of this to, you know, to to view online.

8:12 Lee yeah, and basically ended up having to buy a second-hand copy on DVD, it's the only way I could find it.

8:18 Chris Oh, right.

8:18 Adam Okay.

8:19 Lee

8:21 Lee But yeah, I I'm glad I did, cuz I'll definitely rewatch this.

8:24 Lee I I found it a lot, it's got that very Hammer pacing.

8:27 Lee

8:28 Lee It is very slow-going.

8:31 Lee it say, and all as you say, it's almost still stagy despite the fact the camera works totally different, it's got very much that stage pacing.

8:42 Lee but yeah, I I liked it, I thought it was really good, and it had a really good atmosphere to it, and yeah.

8:49 Adam It's because what what happened was is that so they.

8:52 Adam Hammer brought in Brian Clemens, who wrote, who basically didn't he didn't start The Avengers, like the TV series.

9:01 Adam But he was the one who came in, became script editor and producer and wrote loads of episodes and turned The Avengers into what The Avengers sort of becomes known as.

9:11 Adam As like that sort of fun, comedy sort of spy, slightly sci-fi, slightly mental 60s sort of show that it was.

9:23 Adam And so The Avengers had just finished, and so Hammer started speaking to him.

9:31 Adam And this was essentially like a joke at lunch.

9:36 Adam He was with the director, because the the Blu-ray was actually I believe Chris got me for Christmas one year.

9:42 Adam So thank you very much, Chris.

9:45 Adam was there's like a documentary sort of a little 20-minute documentary on there.

9:52 Adam But apparently, yeah, they were like pitching ideas.

9:56 Adam And he said, Dr. Jekyll and Sister Hyde.

9:58 Adam They all had a they all thought, well that's funny, and we're moving on.

10:03 Adam And then what's his name, Carreras, who ran Hammer was like.

10:09 Adam Actually, I think this is there's something in that.

10:13 Lee Yeah.

10:14 Adam Can you go away and write it?

10:15 Adam And Brian Clemens, the one thing, cuz he then later on he did like the anthology series Thriller and things like that.

10:22 Adam So, but he has a real brilliance of funny dialogue and and it's like, you know, just humorous characterization.

10:34 Adam Cuz I think that's the thing is this doesn't have anyone there's some Hammer, you get, there's always a dull lead.

10:42 Lee Yeah.

10:43 Adam You know, it's the guy who gets the girl is a lump of wood.

10:50 Lee Yeah.

10:51 Adam And, you know, but you've got Lee and Cushion or, you know, whoever sort of they're all sort of like in and they are playing the the meaty roles and actually doing the heavy lifting.

11:02 Adam And there's always someone quite bland sort of involved.

11:05 Adam And with this, I think everyone's like all the characters, like the neighbors, the family of the neighbors, they're great.

11:11 Adam Rob Robertson, like the doctor who he's Jekyll's friend.

11:18 Lee Yeah.

11:19 Adam Yeah, it's.

11:20 Lee He's brilliant.

11:20 Adam I mean, he is just.

11:21 Lee He is.

11:22 Adam Such a.

11:22 Lee He is a proper and as soon as he turned into a woman, I was like, his mate's going to try and shag her.

11:28 Chris Yeah, yeah.

11:28 Lee I knew it was going to happen.

11:29 Adam You know, he's a pervy old get. I mean, that's the first thing he says when he turns up and Jekyll's going, we're going to end up with the pox and stuff.

11:34 Adam And you've got.

11:37 Adam I mean, you've got like Philip Madden in there as the multury guy.

11:43 Lee Yeah.

11:44 Adam And he's just so fantastically Macab, but again, you've got all these lovely lines in it.

11:51 Adam It's like when it's like when Burke and Hare get lynched, well, Burke gets lynched and gets thrown in the lime pit.

11:57 Lee Yeah.

11:58 Adam And it's just what is it, Burke by name, Burke by nature.

12:00 Lee Yeah, yeah.

12:01 Adam And and the one that got me and Clair most was when Robertson says to her, oh, well, I'll go because, well, two's company.

12:08 Adam Three's positively devious.

12:10 Lee Yeah, yeah.

12:11 Lee Yeah.

12:12 Adam So there's a lot of there's a lot of humor in it.

12:14 Adam And and, you know.

12:14 Adam I think that it's and like I say, the neighbors I think are fantastic sort of like like the brother is.

12:24 Adam You know, an enjoyable sort of character because he's just a feckless piss-taking arsehole.

12:30 Adam And and even the sister, which would be quite a sort of a bit of a nothing role, you at least actually feel sorry for her.

12:39 Adam Do you know what I mean?

12:39 Adam It's not cuz usually they're quite whiny, it's that sort of role within a Hammer film is usually quite irritating.

12:46 Lee Yeah.

12:47 Lee But actually I did found her irritating only because sort of she's had nothing.

12:52 Lee She's tried to say hello to him and he's kind of said hello.

12:55 Lee And then he goes, she goes down and has dinner.

12:59 Lee And then when she suddenly just turned up unexpectedly and there's a woman there, she starts giving him a hard time like he's cheating on her.

13:05 Lee And I was like, he literally let you feed him dinner, like this isn't a relationship, you've got no reason to be pissed with him at all.

13:12 Adam She does she does have a a massive strop at that point.

13:16 Lee Yeah.

13:16 Adam although admittedly it's like, you know, it's Martin Beswick's turned up and you're like, well, that's it, I'm not competing there, am I?

13:24 Adam So.

13:25 Adam Because I think Martin Beswick and Ralph Bates are so fucking good in this.

13:30 Lee Amazing.

13:30 Lee Absolutely brilliant, both of them.

13:33 Adam And just how alike they look.

13:37 Chris Yeah.

13:38 Lee Yeah.

13:38 Adam You know, they could they could portray brother and sister.

13:42 Adam But it just, you know, I think it's just so well, and the sort of bits where you just suddenly get like a hand.

13:50 Chris Yeah.

13:50 Adam And it's quite subtle, you know.

13:54 Adam Because I mean, you know, he's given but suddenly sort of like he or she will notice that their hand is changing.

13:59 Lee Yeah.

13:59 Adam And it's and again, it's something that's really simply done.

14:03 Lee But when it's done right, it's perfect.

14:07 Lee It doesn't need anything.

14:07 Adam And actually, one one one thing cuz apparently when Ralph Bates got offered the role, he thought he was going to be playing Sister Hyde as well, he thought he was going to be, he assumed it was like a drag role basically that he'd be.

14:21 Adam which obviously they were like, well, no, that was never that's never the intention.

14:26 Adam But I also think it's because it is a film, it has its humor and it has, I mean it has some fucking dark moments, and there's some really proper gore.

14:38 Adam I mean, like the knife through the neck and things like that.

14:41 Lee Yeah.

14:41 Adam It really fucking hardcore, because this is the point that Hammer are a bit more sort of like, you know, well, we're getting a bit loose with it.

14:46 Adam We, you know, it's.

14:49 Adam For a while it's been right, we'll have nudie vampire ladies.

14:56 Adam And then at this point, it's just like, right, we can just fucking put blood everywhere, you know.

15:01 Adam I mean, when it goes up the white chapel murder.

15:03 Adam Poster and things like that, it's it's almost it's almost sort of comic.

15:07 Adam But.

15:09 Adam But I think that they the one thing that I noticed that watching it this time around, cuz I I saw it.

15:18 Adam Like really a long time ago, and I actually now, having watched it again, I'm kind of like.

15:25 Adam I don't think I appreciate, I I enjoyed it.

15:27 Adam I thought it was a good film.

15:28 Adam I just don't think I appreciate how fucking good a film it was when I watched it that first time around.

15:31 Adam And but I noticed that that never at any point does Hyde become Jekyll and Ralph Bates is stood in a in a dress.

15:43 Lee Yeah.

15:44 Adam Because I know they I think they've made the wise decision that that's an absurdity too far because then it is just ho ho ho, look bloke in a dress.

15:53 Lee Yeah, yeah.

15:54 Adam And so very cleverly, cuz there are bits where clearly that's what's happened, you know, but they sort of they sort of just focus on his face or whatever like that, and it's kind of never spoken about.

16:07 Lee But I thought the point when he pulls the dress out of the wardrobe and then gets angry, I was like, all right, he's got the sense.

16:14 Lee What he's going to do is he's going to burn that dress and then when she takes over, she can't go out because she's got nothing to wear.

16:21 Lee Perfect.

16:22 Lee But no, he didn't think of that, silly sod.

16:24 Lee

16:24 Adam Cuz I think there's I I think also there's the cuz there's a bit of inconsistency where like does how much do they remember?

16:34 Lee Because clearly.

16:35 Adam Because clearly they're they're picking up a bit.

16:37 Adam You know, and that sort of changes and varies throughout the film.

16:41 Adam And that was another bit that I thought was that was bordering on ridiculous.

16:45 Adam Where it's like the headline in the newspaper, and it's like, Mrs. Hyde, Mrs. Hyde.

16:53 Lee Yeah, yeah.

16:54 Adam It was like, yeah, she's Mrs. London London Gazette.

16:58 Adam She's Mrs. Torry Landslide.

17:01 Lee But it was a couple of things that made me laugh.

17:05 Lee One of them was the when it says the killer in a top hat and a cloak.

17:08 Lee I was like that is that is literally everybody who is a working class in London.

17:13 Lee You haven't got to burn your clothes.

17:15 Lee and the other thing is, why did they not lynch that bloody whirlygig player, the blind in air quotes.

17:22 Lee Like he was on the street corner for every single one of those murders.

17:26 Lee And yet nobody thought it was him, and then as soon as he said, I know who did it, they all went, I bet I'll lynch him then, and just immediately trusted this blind old beggar.

17:36 Adam But.

17:36 Adam But he's he's Hare.

17:38 Adam That is something I never connected the first time around.

17:42 Adam Is he's here after cuz when the mob lynch Burke and Hare, they hang Hare and chuck him in a lime pit, and he goes blind.

17:49 Chris Right, yeah.

17:50 Adam Ang.

17:51 Chris I agree.

17:51 Adam And.

17:52 Adam Up literally this morning, I was watching cuz obviously that's the weird thing.

17:58 Adam Cuz obviously they link it up with Jack the Ripper, which is a common thing that happened with Jekyll and Hyde, cuz there's this weird thing where Jekyll and Hyde comes out in 1886.

18:09 Adam And then by the time of the White Chapel murders in 1888, there was a adapt of it at the Lyceum Theater that was doing really amazing business.

18:20 Adam And and an actual fact, the guy who was playing Jekyll and Hyde in the play, a guy called Richard Mansfield, was questioned by police.

18:29 Adam Because like members of the audience wrote to the police and sort of like in that sort of way of, well, he portrays a murderer and a a villain on on stage so well, he can only actually be a sadistic serial killer.

18:41 Adam And, you know, it was sort of that sort of absurdity.

18:42 Adam And actually there were a few people who at the time was sort of like doing the old video narcissist thing of saying, well, actually, perhaps Jack the Ripper went and saw the play and, you know.

18:52 Lee Yeah.

18:52 Adam It's twisted his mind and now he's gone off to go and so on and so forth.

18:58 Adam So weirdly, because they're so sort of recent and there's Christopher Freyling's book Nightmare talks about it.

19:06 Adam Where it's like they Jack and Hyde become linked with Jack the Ripper in a weird way.

19:12 Adam Because in the book, Hyde kills one person.

19:15 Adam But in most of the adaptations, Hyde is a murderer of women.

19:18 Lee Yeah.

19:19 Adam And so, you know, they sort of put those two and two together.

19:22 Adam And wisely, again, wisely with this, is at least they don't, it's not explicitly the victims of Jack the Ripper because that would be extremely distasteful.

19:30 Adam However, what they do do is transport Burke and Hare 60 years in the future.

19:35 Adam And move them to London.

19:37 Lee Yeah.

19:38 Adam And have them as the body snatchers, and obviously Burke and Hare were real.

19:43 Adam But I.

19:44 Adam Because what happened was is Burke because they were in Edinburgh in which is where Robert Louis Stevenson came from as well, and he actually wrote a short story called The Body Snatcher, which was based because of the stories of Burke and Hare.

19:56 Adam but they were obviously active in yeah, it was exactly 60 years earlier.

20:01 Adam So they were like sort of 18 1828.

20:07 Adam And.

20:08 Adam When they got found out, Hare basically turned what, would it been king's or queen's king's evidence.

20:15 Lee Yeah.

20:16 Adam And basically sold Burke out, and so Burke hung and Hare and Hare got away.

20:20 Lee

20:21 Adam And I hadn't heard this before, I knew that Hare got away with it, but I hadn't heard before until I was watching Murder Maps with Vicky McLure this morning.

20:31 Adam

20:32 Adam And it was a Burke and Hare episode, just so happened to be that that's the first one they've done, and I was like, oh, well, I'll watch that.

20:39 Adam And apparently there is like a there was a story or a rumor that Hare got then sort of he got sent out of Edinburgh.

20:46 Adam But a mob cornered him and threw him in a lime pit, blinded him, and he ended up begging on the streets.

20:54 Lee

20:55 Adam And apparently there's no there's no evidence for that.

20:59 Adam But I think it was just one of those things where the story came out mostly because it's a bit more satisfying that.

21:07 Adam One half of this brutal duo paid for his crimes as much as the guy who actually got hung, rather than you know.

21:16 Adam Oh, because he grazed his mate up, he fucked off.

21:21 Adam I think in reality, apparently he just I think they said he just went he like moved to Ireland and died in the poorhouse or something like that.

21:29 Adam But.

21:30 Adam You know, so I'd never heard that thing before, and I was like two and two that it's like he's in this that it's obviously so he would know Jekyll.

21:41 Lee Yeah.

21:41 Adam And then that's why sort of like they go to him and everything else like that.

21:45 Adam And what cuz it it doesn't make it too clear at the start.

21:50 Lee No.

21:51 Adam Cuz if if anything, I'm sitting there going, I know that bloke who plays the the the blind guy.

21:56 Lee Oh, I thought that, but not enough to have actually gone and checked, otherwise, yeah, I would have yeah.

22:02 Adam And then and then it was only when they sort of take him in the pub and then it's like, oh shit, it's here, that's why I'm why I'm saying you know he is.

22:10 Adam

22:11 Adam Because yeah, and that sort of thing of the comeuppance where it's like.

22:18 Adam Cuz again, I mean, you know, it's odd it's odd thing that they stick Burke and Hare in there.

22:24 Adam But it's it suits it.

22:25 Lee It does work.

22:26 Chris It doesn't seem to overload it, yeah.

22:27 Adam No, I think it's just I mean, really, it's it's in a way, it's shorthand, I suppose.

22:32 Adam That it's like, well, we want to put these characters, we want we want this type of character in here.

22:37 Lee Yeah.

22:38 Adam So we might as well just use the two genuine ones.

22:39 Lee Yeah.

22:40 Adam Exactly.

22:40 Adam And let's face it.

22:41 Adam At that point, it's like that's not quite as distasteful in the sense that it's like, well, they're a pair of murdering bastards anyway, so who cares if we fucking defame them by putting them in a silly Hammer film?

22:49 Adam

22:50 Lee Absolutely.

22:51 Lee I've got to say so when I started watching it, when Martine Beswick turned up, at first, I was like.

22:59 Lee I've definitely seen her in something.

23:01 Lee She looks so familiar.

23:02 Lee And then I worked out what it is, I've not seen her in anything, I don't think.

23:05 Lee What I recognize her from, and I'm pretty certain about this, there was a there was a Hanna-Barbera cartoon.

23:11 Lee From 1980, it was like a whole series, called The Drak Pack, did anybody remember The Drak Pack?

23:17 Adam I remember The Drak Pack, yes.

23:19 Lee And Vampira, she's got the same hair, but she's got the same mouth and everything.

23:26 Lee It's like they've based Vampira on her.

23:29 Lee And she it looks so much like her that it looked familiar, and then I was like.

23:34 Lee Hang on a minute, I'm thinking of a cartoon clearly based on this actor.

23:37 Lee And that was what it was.

23:40 Lee But yeah, then once I watched it, I was like.

23:42 Lee Oh my god, it is like they've just taken her face perfectly and that same accent as well and just made it the villainess in The Drak Pack.

23:51 Adam Well, cuz cuz Martine Beswick's Jamaican.

23:55 Lee Oh, is she?

23:56 Adam Which is really when you actually listen to and especially like there's a interview with her on the disc.

24:03 Adam And you can hear it more there, but yeah, she was like, she was a former Miss Jamaica.

24:09 Adam And she is she's one of the silhouetted women in the first ever James Bond title sequence, the title sequence of Dr. No.

24:19 Lee that's cool.

24:20 Adam And then she actually was in she was in two Bond films, so she was like a Bond girl, and I think she was like the first.

24:29 Adam She was like the first person who sort of certainly the first like returning Bond girl.

24:35 Adam cuz she was in Thunderball and from Russia with Love.

24:40 Adam And before this, she was in the Hammer films 1 Million Years B.C. and Prehistoric Women.

24:49 Lee

24:50 Adam And

24:50 Adam But also that she was she's lifelong mates with Caroline Monroe.

24:56 Lee Oh, is she?

24:57 Adam And they they did a they did a film, I've never seen it called House of the Gorgon or something like that, which I think was like a it was fairly recent.

25:06 Adam But I think it was like one of those things, you know, where it's like, oh, we can get these stars in these former Hammer stars into bring a bit of that into proceedings, sort of thing.

25:15 Adam but no, I mean, I think she's terrific.

25:19 Adam Ralph Bates is amazing, do you remember I don't know if you would remember it, Chris.

25:23 Adam But do you remember Dear John, Lee?

25:25 Lee No.

25:26 Adam Oh, right.

25:27 Adam Because that's that is how in my head, that's Ralph Bates.

25:31 Adam Dear John was a sitcom that ran for two years on the BBC, and it basically was he was a hapless bloke whose wife left him.

25:39 Adam And he went to a place called the One to One Club, which was like for separated and divorced people.

25:45 Adam And it was like, you know, just in a community center once every week, and it was based around all the sort of characters that were there.

25:55 Adam And there was a.

25:55 Lee Okay.

25:56 Adam There was a nerdy guy and a bloke who fancied himself as being a bit John Travolta, so he was a flashy sod with a quiff and stuff like that.

26:05 Adam And the woman and the woman who ran it.

26:07 Adam Who was just a marvelously inappropriate upper-class woman who basically ended every inquiry with like when they were when they would talk about what happened with their relationships or why they were divorced or whatever like that.

26:19 Adam And her thing always was, were there any sexual problems?

26:25 Lee And.

26:26 Adam And

26:27 Adam So that in my head was that was Ralph Bates, he was in Dear John for two years, and he actually died really young, he was about 50.

26:36 Adam Well, young for us, he was he was in his 50s.

26:39 Lee Oh, young for us.

26:40 Adam And he died of pancreatic cancer in the 90s.

26:45 Adam

26:46 Adam And but yeah, Hammer kind of were grooming him to be their next star.

26:55 Lee Oh, he's in Taste the Blood of Dracula, wasn't he?

26:57 Adam Yeah.

26:57 Adam He's in Taste the Blood, he's also in, oh, Taste the Blood, we should do Taste the Blood.

27:03 Adam There's there's a lot of there was me sitting there going, oh, you know, the the odd ones are crap.

27:08 Adam No, there's some bloody bell in the within the the franchises.

27:14 Adam I mean, obviously 80 1972 for Dracula, but Taste the Blood is a fantastic one as well.

27:19 Lee Amazing.

27:20 Adam And yeah, so he's in Taste the Blood of Dracula.

27:22 Adam He actually plays Frankenstein in The Horror of Frankenstein, which was kind of like a they decided to try and reboot their Frankenstein cycle.

27:31 Adam So they went back to an original.

27:33 Adam It's him and I think it's Dave Prows as the monster, and at this point the monster looks like Karlof.

27:40 Adam Like they've they've sort of negotiated so they can have him with the square head and the stitches and stuff like that, so it's sort of like, so I think they were hoping to go back to basics on that.

27:49 Adam And then he was in Fear in the Night and Lust for a Vampire.

27:55 Adam So he did quite a lot with he did quite a fair bit with Hammer.

28:02 Adam and I mean this is he is a bloody good actor.

28:06 Adam And it's it's just weird for me because like I say, in my head, he's just it's like having I don't know.

28:13 Adam Like, you know, Ronnie Barker or something like that, he was just someone who was in sitcoms that I watched as a kid.

28:18 Adam So it was sort of, yeah, it always.

28:20 Lee Yeah.

28:21 Adam

28:22 Adam I always, excuse me, I always find it he's also in The Monster, the one with Joan Collins.

28:30 Adam which is a which is a pretty good, that's a pretty good film.

28:34 Adam Because I had it in a the weirdest fucking box set ever, cuz it was that, The Uncanny and Hands of the Ripper.

28:42 Lee Oh God, yeah, that's that's a very odd.

28:45 Adam That's a very odd little weirdly enough.

28:48 Adam I didn't realize this, this was made at the same time as Hands of the Ripper, so Hammer were having a a ripper year or something like that.

28:55 Adam Yeah.

28:56 Adam And

28:57 Adam But also they this got released on a double bill with Blood from the Mummy's Tomb.

29:03 Adam But apparently didn't didn't do all that in.

29:05 Adam didn't do all that on the box office, you know.

29:09 Lee I seem to remember Blood from the Mummy's Tomb being very slow-going, even for a Hammer, very slowly paced.

29:14 Adam Yeah.

29:15 Adam It's it's again, it's that sort of weird element whereby

29:24 Adam Again, the mummy ones are sort of like very hit and miss, because and again, I think it's you had this weird push where some of them I think there was within Hammer, there was like a a bit of a sort of dynamic where some of them were like, no, stick to our guns.

29:40 Adam We'll do as we've done for the last 15 years, we do films like that.

29:45 Adam And then the other half were kind of like, no, we want to branch out, and so you get things like this.

29:50 Adam And after this, Brian Clemens did one other film for them, which was Captain Kronos.

29:56 Lee yeah.

29:57 Adam And again, and and actually he directed that, it was the one film he directed.

30:04 Adam and again, you get that sort of thing where it's quite lively, there's a interesting change on the mythology.

30:13 Adam And there's humor in it, it's quite an adventure film, Captain Kronos.

30:16 Adam I mean, it's that's one I'd love to do on the show at some point.

30:22 Chris They they do seem pretty skilled at, you know, adjusting things without ruining them or arguably making them better without taking away from the original.

30:30 Adam Well, cuz I mean Hammer had done they did, I can't remember what one it's called, there's like the strange they did sort of like two other versions of Jekyll and Hyde.

30:40 Adam Yeah, so they did The Two Faces of Dr. Jekyll in 1960.

30:43 Adam And I don't know if you've ever seen that, Lee.

30:46 Adam It's fucking dull.

30:47 Lee Oh, is it?

30:48 Adam It's it's really weird because it's again.

30:50 Adam Like you were saying, it's it's everything that we've said this film isn't.

30:55 Adam You know.

30:57 Adam It's it's very typically Hammer, apart from the fact that it there's just nothing.

31:00 Adam There's not much to it.

31:02 Adam It's weird.

31:03 Adam You know.

31:04 Adam There's it just doesn't but they also did one in 1959.

31:06 Adam Called The Ugly Duckling.

31:08 Lee Oh, with Bernard Bresslaw?

31:09 Lee I've never seen it, but I need to.

31:11 Lee I think it's on YouTube.

31:12 Lee I keep meaning to watch it.

31:13 Adam Yeah.

31:13 Adam Oh yeah, it's it's it's.

31:17 Adam It's funny, but you know.

31:18 Adam I mean, but it's a it's a deliberately non-serious take on it, because basically the story is Bernard Breslaw is a meek sort of guy, and then he becomes a Teddy Boy.

31:31 Adam Because that was like considered that's that's like the that's the cool criminal of the day, you know what I mean?

31:38 Adam So he takes the potion, becomes a Teddy Boy.

31:41 Adam And John Pertwe's his dad, and he's great in it.

31:44 Adam But it's just.

31:45 Adam Yeah, it's just that that that that's weird.

31:49 Adam And weirdly, like I said, that feels more like a sort of obviously because of the people involved that feels quite carry on, and it's deliberately deliberately funny.

31:57 Adam Whereas I think this has just such a a lovely flare to it.

32:03 Adam Of it's dark.

32:04 Adam And like you say, Chris.

32:05 Adam There are there are some meaningful stuff in there.

32:08 Chris Yeah.

32:09 Adam And and actually it's it's it's again there's there's not really other than Sandra Spencer.

32:17 Adam I the the sister.

32:22 Adam other than her.

32:24 Adam There's not really a saintly character in it.

32:27 Lee No.

32:28 Adam Cuz you know, like Paul Whitsun-Jones, like the police sergeant, is fantastic in it.

32:32 Adam Because it's like, yeah, I'm diligent in my job, but I will also can you fucking whiskey what I'm sitting here.

32:37 Lee Yeah.

32:38 Lee Yeah.

32:38 Lee I did.

32:39 Adam And obviously Robertson is like, oh, well he's usually here on time, and it's like, yeah, but he's had a he's had a whiff of fanny.

32:44 Adam So he ain't coming, you know.

32:48 Adam And actually, lovely little story as well.

32:51 Adam Is Betsy, the prostitute who gets murdered by Dr. Jekyll, is Virginia Virginia Weatherall.

32:55 Lee Yes, I was about to bring that up.

32:57 Lee From Curse of the Crimson Altar.

32:59 Adam Yes.

32:59 Adam But also, that was when they met, and they got married, had two kids, and we're together till Ralph Bates died.

33:05 Lee Oh, really?

33:06 Adam She's she's the trustee of his like there's a foundation because he died of pancreatic cancer, and it's like the and so she's like the trustee of a charity that's like a research charity for cancer.

33:16 Adam and

33:17 Lee Oh, wow.

33:18 Adam But also she used to run a shop called Virginia in London that was like a fashion, like a vintage clothing shop.

33:25 Adam For years, like she ran it from the 70s to like the mid 2000s.

33:27 Lee Oh, wow.

33:28 Adam And half the fashion industry went through there, models, Madonna was a a patron of the shop and stuff like that, and she used to supply two museums and things like that.

33:37 Adam So, yeah, I mean she was and she's in like Clockwork Orange and stuff like that.

33:41 Adam So, but yeah, she was

33:44 Adam Yeah, this is where they met.

33:46 Adam And which is.

33:47 Lee Yeah.

33:48 Adam It was lovely, you know, do you remember that bloke I bet you was killed you know.

33:53 Lee Yeah.

33:54 Chris I know.

33:54 Lee I murdered you.

33:55 Adam And.

33:55 Adam I murdered you in cold blood and it was love at first sight.

34:01 Lee excellent.

34:04 Lee but yeah, as I say, it was one of those.

34:07 Lee If I'd known I I'd sat quite long, if I'd known how good it was and hadn't always just been on the assumption that it was going to be daft.

34:16 Lee Yeah, I would have seen this so much earlier because it it was one of the Hammer ones that.

34:20 Lee I am aware of, but just, yeah, it just never appealed.

34:22 Lee But yeah, so I'm so glad we suggested it.

34:24 Lee well, I wasn't so glad when you suggested it cuz I thought, I've not watched that for a reason, but yeah, no, I was wrong, it was really good.

34:34 Chris I mean it's funny it's one of like the title does just sound really silly, and yet I get it because it's Mr. Sister.

34:38 Lee Yeah.

34:39 Chris You know, it's the right word, really, but it does just make it sound like, what, that's just going to be a bit.

34:43 Lee I don't mind it, but I don't mind it.

34:45 Adam Yeah.

34:45 Chris Yeah.

34:45 Adam It's.

34:46 Adam Yeah.

34:47 Adam But then.

34:48 Chris You think it could be all right.

34:48 Chris But yeah.

34:49 Adam Mind you, if you want undermining, the tagline on the poster warning the sexual transformation of a man into a woman will actually take place before your very eyes.

34:55 Lee Yeah.

34:56 Adam So Hammer was still quite you know, they were like fuck it.

35:00 Adam I think that's that was a lovely thing though, is I think it's like Brian Clemens.

35:04 Adam And sort of like a few people they come in and it's like, well, actually, while we're doing Dr. Jekyll and Sister Hyde.

35:08 Adam Now it's a darf title.

35:10 Adam But we can actually, we'll knock up something decent here.

35:12 Adam And it's like.

35:14 Chris Yeah, yeah.

35:14 Adam You know.

35:16 Chris Proper bit of subversion.

35:18 Lee

35:19 Lee Yeah, yeah.

35:20 Lee Very good.

35:20 Lee Great film.

35:21 Lee So,

35:22 Lee Yeah.

35:23 Adam I'm glad you enjoyed it.

35:23 Adam Gens.

35:24 Lee Yeah, definitely.

35:25 Lee So if you haven't seen it, go and dig out a copy.

35:28 Lee For our next episode, again, we're covering something that neither myself nor Chris has ever seen.

35:33 Lee we're going to be covering whatever happened to Baby Jane.

35:37 Lee

35:37 Chris I've not heard of that.

35:39 Lee Yeah, a VHS that has been on Lady Jennifer's shelf since we met, I think, and, yeah, I've never seen it.

35:46 Lee So, I might even just watch it on VHS at this rate, just to see it how it was supposed to be seen.

35:52 Chris That's going to be a bit of an experience now, yeah.

35:54 Lee Yeah.

35:55 Lee It could be fun.

35:56 Chris I wonder if it'll feel authentic or awful.

35:58 Lee Well.

36:00 Lee We shall see, I'll give it a go and I'll let you know.

36:03 Lee Yes, so thanks ever so much for listening everybody.

36:06 Lee Go and check out Dr. Jekyll and Sister Hyde, if like me, you've always thought it was going to be ridiculous, it isn't, it's a very good film.

36:14 Lee we're all in agreement on that, and we will cover whatever happened to Baby Jane in the Fortnight.

36:21 Lee Thanks ever so much for listening.

36:22 Lee Good night.

36:22 Chris Good night.

36:23 Adam Good night.

36:26 Chris How many more surprises have we got to come?