Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein

0:23LeeRight, good evening and welcome to very, very serious horror.

0:28LeeI am Lee.

0:31ChrisI am Chris.

0:34AdamAnd I am Poot Lovato.

0:39AdamNo, we're giggling again.

0:41LeeSorry, sorry.

0:42Adamstop giggling down the microphone and I'm going to have to drop it so that we can become the two Cockneys that all three of us are.

0:50ChrisAnd I'm Adam.

0:52LeeUm, and just a quick explanation for those who have no idea what's going on, which is everyone apart from the three of us in this room.

0:59LeeUm, uh, somebody pointed out we had, um, our first bit of we had our first one-star review on iTunes.

1:09ChrisBut to be fair, that's after like three years.

1:12ChrisI'm amazed we haven't had at least a few more.

1:15LeeThis is true.

1:16LeeUm, but yeah, we were, we were most, I most, I personally.

1:21LeeI was most annoyed and then most bemused by what exactly he was upset by.

1:25ChrisBy the lack of coherence.

1:27LeeUm, yeah, so first of all, it was the worst podcast you'd ever listened to, nice.

1:32LeeUh, he then followed it by saying, it's a pair of Cockneys who just laughed down the microphone.

1:37LeeWhich there are neither two of us nor are we Cockneys.

1:41LeeUm, and then I couldn't work out what I was offended about.

1:48AdamHe's at that point that you I did, I did go and check there wasn't another welcome to horror.

1:53AdamJust in case we'd got the bad press of two Cockneys on the microphone.

1:59LeeUm, yes.

2:00LeeSo it.

2:01Adamwe go and talk about evil deed.

2:07ChrisBut as far as internet abuse goes, we have not had our fair share, I would say.

2:12AdamNo, no, thank you, Chris, don't we've not had our first share.

2:15AdamNow, I think we've now had our fair share.

2:17LeeYeah, we're not encouraging this.

2:19AdamYeah, don't encourage the shit storm.

2:21AdamWe're not ones to beg.

2:23AdamBut if anyone out there hasn't reviewed us and would like to give us a a five-star review, please do so.

2:28LeeYeah.

2:30LeeUm, uh, yeah.

2:31LeeAnd like, don't get me wrong, we like constructive criticism, but it's just when the criticism is just, well, they just like chatted for about 40 minutes and laughed a bit.

2:40LeeWhich, you know, it's, it's, it's just an entertaining hobby, really, we're not trying to be deadly serious, this is not an academic, uh, view of horror.

2:55ChrisI am, have you, have you not been taking me seriously?

2:59ChrisI'm very disappointed.

3:02AdamThe worst the worst part about it is, is that I did base my dissertation on our episode on Leprechaun.

3:10AdamAnd now I've realized why I didn't get fuck all.

3:19AdamShit, I thought we were like A1 Academia.

3:24AdamI thought we were a listed text.

3:28ChrisWell, we can say that on our on our bio.

3:30ChrisSo.

3:33LeeUm, yes.

3:34LeeSo, uh.

3:34AdamBut.

3:35AdamYes.

3:36AdamSo.

3:36LeeJust pointing a bit of fun at that really because uh it sort of made us laugh.

3:40LeeUm.

3:41ChrisAnd of course, he will never hear that.

3:43LeeNo, so what you know.

3:45LeeIt's his loss.

3:46LeeWell, I say his.

3:47LeeIt could be a her.

3:47LeeI mean.

3:48ChrisThat's true.

3:49LeeIt's their loss.

3:50AdamYeah, let's not let's not be let's let's let's be equal with our abuse.

3:53AdamYou know.

3:54AdamWhat, who whomsoever this person is.

3:57AdamRight.

3:58AdamAnd uh, yeah.

4:00LeeYou're gone.

4:03AdamOh, I really, I wanted.

4:04AdamActually, funnily enough, the thing was is I wanted to watch this really, there was this really great documentary about werewolves that I was going to watch.

4:10AdamBut it was all like just like funny and like Rick Mayall was in it and someone Nixon Balloons and stuff like that.

4:17AdamFuck.

4:18AdamYou know.

4:19AdamWhat's the world coming to.

4:20ChrisThis is quite a good segway into the film we watched tonight.

4:22ChrisReally, isn't it?

4:23AdamThat's very true.

4:24LeeYeah.

4:25LeeYeah, I imagine trying to talk seriously, uh, about a film like this, it's.

4:33LeeOh, yeah.

4:34LeeWhoever knows.

4:35LeeAnyway.

4:36AdamI to be honest, most of them.

4:42LeeUm, so before we get too serious and too on topic, um, we've got to get our usual bollocks out of the way.

4:51LeeUm, so Chris, have you had the opportunity to see anything in the horror genre?

4:57ChrisNot in the horror genre per se, but I'm going to make a tenuous link, hopefully.

5:02ChrisSo we're still been working through the uh, the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

5:08LeeOh, yes.

5:10AdamHow many you got to?

5:11ChrisWell, I have to, I have to make a very powerful statement here.

5:16ChrisThat anybody, anybody out there that may not have watched Guardians of the Galaxy.

5:21ChrisOne or two.

5:22ChrisAnd anybody, you know.

5:23ChrisLike I highly recommend that you get right on that.

5:30AdamAnd that is duly noted.

5:31AdamNow that is constructive criticism.

5:36ChrisDid you like how subtle it was?

5:39AdamYeah, it was very subtle, Chris.

5:40AdamYeah.

5:40ChrisUm, but to be fair.

5:42ChrisI had totally forgotten how good they were.

5:45ChrisSo it did stand out, I was watching.

5:47ChrisI was thinking.

5:48ChrisThese are just great, they're just all all the right sort of elements in there.

5:52ChrisUm, it's fun.

5:53ChrisIt turns out it does have, you know, a pretty good storyline that that threads throughout the two and culminates, I'd say, at the end of two with a nice twist.

6:01ChrisAs far as one of these films could twist, so it's good.

6:05ChrisAnd following on from that, a complete surprise Ant-Man, I did not expect it to be as good as it was.

6:10ChrisAnd that turned out to be a lot of fun and my tenuous link is that I didn't realize it was directed by Edgar Wright.

6:15ChrisWho I also now know directed Sean of the Dead.

6:19LeeAbsolutely.

6:20ChrisAnd possibly some others that I can't think of.

6:23AdamUh, Hot Fuzz.

6:25ChrisOh, yeah.

6:25AdamThe Blood and Ice Cream trilogy.

6:28AdamUm, Scott Pilgrim.

6:31AdamThat's him.

6:32ChrisOh, okay.

6:32LeeNow, that's a good film as well.

6:35AdamBaby driver.

6:36ChrisSo, so we've got people on here who know stuff.

6:42AdamWho would have thought.

6:44LeeUm, yeah, so I love those Guardians film and I think the thing is when they sort of come out.

6:49LeeAnd Marvel was doing quite well.

6:52LeeThe impression that I got from people was that they were basically they were written by a committee, so it was like, you know, you sort of you got a lot of people around the table and I was like, that's not the way to write a coherent, well-rounded movie, and they totally proved me wrong and did a great job of it.

7:08LeeWhich again, which is what all the well, not all, the majority of the Marvel films have done so far to be fair.

7:15AdamI think I think it's they're heading much more towards the model because American TV is a writer's room a lot more often.

7:25AdamAnd yeah, I think but then I think something like Marvel kind of you aren't just dealing with a single movie, it is you at least need someone there going, well, you can't put that in because that fucks up three movies time.

7:40LeeYeah.

7:41AdamUm, and that sort of thing.

7:42AdamBut yeah.

7:43AdamBut I've I'm believe me, I'm so, gentlemen, I do need to see it.

7:49AdamUm, I was thinking that, you know, obviously at some point on Mos Eisley Happy Hour we've run out of Star Wars to do.

7:56AdamBut I mean, I was thinking maybe we'd do something like Spaceballs and things like that.

8:01ChrisOh.

8:01AdamAnd then I thought.

8:03AdamGuardians of the Galaxy, you could kind of argue.

8:05ChrisI I did get a bit of a Star Wars feel when I was watching it at the cinema.

8:11ChrisIt's so, yeah, of everything I've seen, this is, you know, it's it's good fun sci-fi.

8:15AdamYeah.

8:16ChrisWith loads of aliens.

8:17AdamYeah.

8:18AdamI think, yeah, so but I mean, whatever happens, I'm going to watch them, I've just the had the opportunity, every time I took the DVD around to people's houses, they were just shits about it.

8:31AdamJust.

8:34LeeFair enough.

8:36LeeUm, Adam, have you watched anything horror related?

8:40AdamUm, I've watched, uh, I showed Claire Kolchak, like the first one, the Night Stalker.

8:47AdamUm, because I was basically like I I didn't know what I wanted to watch.

8:55AdamAnd it was like, well, if you want.

8:56AdamDo you want do you want to watch like a horror film Columbo?

9:02AdamAnd uh, so yeah, so we we watched Night Stalker.

9:05AdamThat's again, that's something that maybe we need to cover at some point.

9:10AdamI'm not sure whether it's I'm not sure whether to go with the very first like because the original obviously was where it all took off from.

9:19AdamUm, but then obviously there's quite a few good episodes in the series and stuff like that, so but you'd probably start at the at the starting point.

9:28AdamBut um, but yeah, so we watched.

9:30ChrisHow do you spell it?

9:31AdamUh, K O L C H A K, I think.

9:36ChrisThe Night Stalker.

9:38AdamYeah.

9:38AdamYes.

9:39AdamBecause what it is that they did they it's a made for TV movie and it's basically Carl Kolchak is a reporter for the local newspaper and uh series of unusual murders take place.

9:54AdamAnd he begins to realize that it has a supernatural cause, um, but the sort of in in a way a bit like say, um, Dirty Harry or Jaws or something like.

10:02AdamHe basically butts heads against the local authorities who are like, yeah, we think it's that too but you've got to you can't report this.

10:12AdamAnd um, yeah, and and it was but it was like it was a one-off, it was written by um, uh, Richard Matheson who um, just did so many great stories and wrote, um, oh, we covered it very early on.

10:34LeeUm, uh, House of.

10:35AdamUh, I Am Legend.

10:36LeeAh.

10:36AdamHouse.

10:37AdamYeah, he wrote he wrote the book of that and adapted the screenplay, did Twilight Zone, I Am Legend.

10:43AdamHe's, you know, he's.

10:45ChrisOkay.

10:45AdamYeah.

10:46AdamUm, and basically, yeah, it was just like a one-off, it wasn't like a pilot or anything, it was just a one-off TV movie, and it proved to be such a hit that they then did a follow-up called The Night Strangler, and the Night Strangler basically.

11:04Adamkind of is the original version of 'Tooms' from, uh, The X-Files, in that it's a weird it's not a it's not something it's not like a vampire or a werewolf or something like that.

11:17AdamIt's a more unusual human creature.

11:20AdamAnd then that was so successful that they then made uh they made one series of it, and that is and it's lit it literally is why The X-Files existed.

11:33AdamBecause it's basically Kolchak every week, um, encounters like a different monster or supernatural thing or a UFO or an invisible man or a mad scientist and it's sort of, yeah.

11:48AdamAnd but but it's basically it's basically Columbo does The X-Files.

11:52AdamBecause it's this crumpled little this this crumpled little man wandering around investigating it and being uh sort of smarter than everyone else in the room.

12:07AdamBut yeah, it's.

12:09ChrisWell, that is selling it to me.

12:11AdamIt's well worth it's well worth seeing but I maybe we need to cover the original at some point.

12:15AdamI think just because, well, it's part of it's part of the tapestry, I think.

12:19ChrisCan we cover Columbo as well?

12:21AdamWe could cover there's there is there is a Vincent Price episode of Columbo.

12:25ChrisIs there?

12:26ChrisOh.

12:26AdamYeah, Vincent Price is in an episode of Columbo.

12:29AdamAnd he and strangely enough and this is obviously not spoilers because the great thing is with Columbo is you see the murder at the start and then it's how he works it out is the thing really a who done it.

12:40AdamUm.

12:41AdamAnd unusually, yeah, Vincent Price is the killer.

12:46AdamUm, but yeah, Donald Pleasence also is in a very good one.

12:51ChrisMm.

12:52AdamUm, where and he turns up at um, he turns up at the head of a lot of polls of best Columbo villain.

13:00AdamUm, and he's yeah, he's really good in it.

13:01AdamUm.

13:03AdamPatrick McGoohan's in it so many fucking times, it's unreal.

13:06AdamUm.

13:07AdamAnd actually, uh, one of the best also one of the best episodes is the Johnny Cash store uh Johnny Cash one.

13:13ChrisMm.

13:13AdamUh where Johnny Cash plays a country and western singer who bumps someone bumps uh his is it his sister, I think it's his or his wife, I can't remember.

13:24AdamBut.

13:25AdamAnyway, yeah.

13:26AdamSo I I digress, but yeah.

13:27AdamThere are some fantastic Columbo's out there.

13:30AdamAnd they much like Adam West Batman, it does tend to be a bit it lives or dies on its guest star.

13:38ChrisYeah, okay.

13:39AdamAnd but yeah, there's seriously and obviously the great Santini who is the finest Columbo villain whoever graced the small screen.

13:50AdamUh, I've also watched Demons.

13:51AdamYou know, the um, 80s, uh, oh.

13:56LeeOh, yes.

13:57AdamUm, Bava it's it's not it's not Bava Lamber, uh, yeah, that.

14:05ChrisIs that the six-part series?

14:08AdamUh, no, no, there's Demons is, um, Demons is a film like Italian, well, Italian made English language horror film, um, from the eighties.

14:19AdamWhich is just brilliant but also one of it's just.

14:24AdamI there were bits in that that I think I must have watched it in some kind of, you know, an altered state maybe or something.

14:30AdamBecause there were certainly towards the end, I didn't remember large chunks of it.

14:34AdamAnd there was, um, there's a samurai sold on a dirt bike, fight with monsters, um, Black Shocker is in it.

14:43AdamIt's just.

14:44AdamYeah, it's quite it's quite a marvelous film, but it's Arrow released it on Blu-ray as a double with Demons 2.

14:52AdamAnd I haven't.

14:53AdamI was I was kind of thinking I'd tackle Demons 2 the same night and then I was probably just too knackered, so but I will be I will be watching Demons 2 as well.

15:01AdamBecause they're just.

15:03AdamThey're proper what I would describe as horror fun.

15:07LeeYeah.

15:08AdamYou know, they're just fucking daft.

15:11AdamBut, yeah.

15:12AdamBut a very good premise, it's but it's a bit sort of it's a bit in the mouth of madness because it's basically someone gives out flyers to uh go to the cinema.

15:23AdamLoads of people go there.

15:25AdamAnd then the film within the film happens in the cinema and basically it's a sort of magical right to unleash demons.

15:32AdamAnd uh, yeah.

15:34AdamThat's just and Claudio Simonetti from Goblin did the score.

15:39AdamAnd it's fucking brilliant.

15:40AdamOh.

15:41AdamSo.

15:41AdamYeah.

15:42AdamIt's.

15:44AdamI I recommend Demons.

15:48LeeUm, so I have caught up with uh, one of your recommendations, Adam, uh, I watched uh, the Black Coat's Daughter.

15:56AdamOh, yes.

15:58AdamYes, what did you think?

15:59LeeUm, I kind of liked it.

16:03LeeUm, I thought it was really like, it worked brilliantly as a horror film, but it was one of those that it finished and I was like, that was creepy.

16:11LeeAnd then I was like, that was a bit of a coincidence.

16:15LeeAnd that was never explained.

16:16AdamYeah.

16:17LeeDon't know what happened to those people.

16:18LeeLike it was one of those it was it worked really well to make it was really creepy and really sinister, but it just left me with loads of questions at the end.

16:26AdamYeah, it's it's not one that bears much analysis back, I don't think.

16:30LeeNo, no.

16:31AdamBecause I I had much the same experience where I watched it and I was sustained.

16:36AdamSo as as a as a film, it works because you are like you are taking along with it.

16:40AdamBut yeah, afterwards you do start just going, hang on.

16:43AdamBut what was that about?

16:46AdamAnd yeah.

16:46LeeYeah.

16:47LeeSo.

16:48LeeUm, but yeah, I mean it was I it was entertaining.

16:50LeeUh and it was really creepy.

16:52LeeYeah, and I liked the way the story progressed.

16:54LeeSo.

16:56LeeI definitely didn't dislike it.

16:59LeeUh, yeah.

17:00LeeAs you say, it was just one of those that you're like.

17:04LeeSo if that person hadn't turned up at exactly that moment.

17:07LeeNone of this would have happened.

17:08LeeThen it was all a bit.

17:10LeeMm.

17:10LeeBut yeah, it worked.

17:16AdamI it also does it also does feature the only documentary footage of me, um, going on social media.

17:23AdamSo, which is just the bit with the phone call, kill all the cunts.

17:30AdamThat's it.

17:31AdamThat's the two actually there's two there's two responses that are in cinema to that.

17:34AdamAnd the other one is Peter Cushing in Star Wars because Pickering is pointless.

17:37AdamSo.

17:40AdamOh dear, I've opened the internet.

17:41AdamAh.

17:44LeeUm, uh, and uh, so the other thing I did want to discuss isn't something I've watched, but it's it's something that cropped up this week that I thought I'd might be a fun discussion.

17:53LeeUm.

17:54LeeUm, so the new Rob Zombie album came out this week, um, which I've given a listen and decided that I'm not sure I need anymore Rob Zombie.

18:01LeeUm.

18:02AdamYou think he's done his bit?

18:03LeeYeah.

18:04AdamI think.

18:05LeeYeah, and it's funny, I was having a conversation with a guy next, you know when you say something and you just kind of say it as an off-the-cuff joke and then you suddenly go.

18:12LeeNo, I think I've really stumbled on something here.

18:14LeeUm.

18:16LeeSo I was saying to somebody he was saying to me, oh, you know, the new Rob Zombie album's coming out.

18:23LeeAnd I said, I really liked the earlier stuff when he's like, don't get me wrong, a song can just be, you know, like the lyrics of a song.

18:31LeeDon't have to change your life, it doesn't have to be something incredibly poignant.

18:37LeeBut it has to mean something.

18:38LeeAnd as Rob Zombie's career has gone in, gone on, sorry, he's gone from writing songs that have a story to just saying a load of words that create a kind of creepy visual.

18:52LeeAnd I think he's much more of a visual person.

18:56LeeThen.

18:58LeeUm, and that's what.

19:00LeeSo I think what he's done is, in the last few years, instead of writing songs, I think he gets out his little notepad and he goes into Walmart when they open their Halloween aisle.

19:12LeeAnd he walks down it.

19:13LeeAnd he just writes everything down.

19:15LeeScary cat.

19:17LeeUh, funny thing with bobbly eyes.

19:20LeeUh, that's a cat with a baby's face.

19:23LeeUh, Halloween candy.

19:24LeeHe just writes it all down.

19:24LeeAnd then the band plays music and he just reads his list back in the voice of Charles Manson.

19:29LeeAnd that's it.

19:29LeeThat's all he does.

19:30LeeHe doesn't bother writing anything.

19:32LeeHe that's that's his way of creating now.

19:36LeeWhich, you know.

19:36AdamHas he got has he got to the Mad Libs sort of stage with it then you think?

19:40AdamWhere it's just he's he has like a flick book, it's like, right, what, uh, right.

19:46AdamA, um, a type of vehicle, jet plane, okay, right.

19:50AdamUm, a.

19:52AdamUh, a country.

19:53AdamTransylvania.

19:54AdamA monster.

19:55AdamCreature from the Black Lagoon.

19:57AdamOh, we've not done him before.

19:58AdamAnd yeah, and that's.

20:01AdamThere we go.

20:02AdamI'm on my airplane with the creature from the Black Lagoon.

20:05AdamYeah.

20:07LeeExactly, that's exactly what it is.

20:10LeeUm, yeah, so it just doesn't work for me.

20:11LeeUnfortunately.

20:12LeeOh.

20:13AdamYou know.

20:13LeeI still like the it's great for having a party and having on the background because it's great lively music.

20:19LeeBut it's just when you actually sit down and listen to it, you just go, you're just saying a load of random words, Rob, it's just not not cutting it.

20:28LeeUm, but but to what I found when I was doing a little Google was that his name has turned up a lot in the last month or so.

20:36LeeUm, with a new project to reboot The Munsters in an with an R-rating, have you heard about this, Adam?

20:43AdamYes.

20:43AdamI was going to funnily enough, that's what I was going to say, I don't know if you'd spotted this, but yeah, he's meant to be doing.

20:49AdamI think it is a film version of The Munsters.

20:53AdamUm, the I think the only confirmed cast member is Sheri Moon Zombie who is playing, uh, Lily.

21:01AdamUm, and the only other person I've heard is apparently Elvira is in the cast as well.

21:08ChrisOh, okay.

21:09AdamUm, but other than that, I don't know much more about it.

21:13AdamIt'd be I mean.

21:14AdamIt'd be interesting to see.

21:15AdamBut I what was the what was the one with Eddie Izzard, they did like a pilot of.

21:21Lee13 13 Mockingbird Lane.

21:22AdamYeah.

21:23AdamWhich again was kind of like trying to take The Munsters into a not necessarily like an adult or area, but it had it was slightly more sort of visceral.

21:38AdamYeah.

21:40AdamAnd, you know, Herman genuinely was made of.

21:43AdamBecause this is the thing, in The Munsters, it's never made a thing of their monstrousness, whereas that was like, oh no, Herman is built from dead bodies.

21:52AdamAnd, you know, and grandpa is a vampire and he kills people and drinks their blood and so on and so forth.

21:57AdamSo it's like.

21:59AdamI I don't know, I'm kind of interested to see it.

22:03ChrisMm.

22:04AdamUm, I'm kind of also hoping that he rings up The Ghastly Ones and gets them to do the score.

22:10LeeOh, that could save it.

22:12AdamYou see, I think, weirdly enough, the one thing and this is is like you were saying about his sort of lyrically and everything else like that.

22:18AdamThe one thing I would say is that I think that there is.

22:23AdamThere is an an element of of horror that is kind of like the Halloween horror.

22:32AdamAnd it is, you know, oh, we'll Chuck we'll Chuck in a load of glow-in-the-dark skeletons.

22:38AdamAnd we'll.

22:39AdamYou know, but it's that's fun.

22:40LeeYeah.

22:42AdamAnd I kind of think that he might be on a I I think he might be on the right mind frame to do that.

22:49AdamI think if he takes R-rated as, oh, let's.

22:54AdamPut it in that they because that they go around killing people or whatever like that.

23:00AdamAnd it's sort of.

23:01AdamThat don't work because that's The Addams Family.

23:03AdamThe Munsters and The Addams Family have a different vibe.

23:06AdamBecause the whole point of The Munsters is that they're a wholesome American family who just happen to be monsters and scare other people.

23:12AdamBut.

23:13AdamUh, I think, yeah, I think Rob Zombie might be it might be a good place for him to go.

23:20AdamBecause I think it's something I it's something he's familiar with, but also I think he might he understands the fun side of horror.

23:27AdamLike that Halloweeny carnival party version of horror.

23:31LeeYeah.

23:32AdamSo fingers crossed.

23:34LeeI absolutely agree, I think if anybody can do it, I think it's him.

23:39LeeThe problem is, I don't think anybody can do it.

23:42LeeI think I think the problem with it is, it's one of those things that works as a comedy.

23:46LeeBecause it's a comedic lunatic idea.

23:51LeeIt's Dracula, his daughter is married to Frankenstein's monster and they've got a werewolf for a son.

23:56LeeLike, you can't make that serious.

23:57LeeIt it just doesn't work.

23:59AdamYeah.

23:59LeeUm, but but as you say.

24:01LeeI think if anyone can keep it can make it a bit more adult possibly, but but as you say, definitely their the foreground is going to be fun for him.

24:11LeeSo I'm hoping.

24:12LeeThat yeah, you're right, he can make it into like a big scary carnival Halloween ride and not try and make a real horror movie out of it.

24:19LeeWhich it isn't is never going to be.

24:21AdamNo, I because it's weird.

24:23AdamIt's like all this sort of stuff that keeps coming up at the moment, what was it, it was like the Banana Splits.

24:29AdamI've not seen it, but there's that there's like the Banana Splits movie that is a horror movie.

24:33LeeYeah.

24:34AdamAnd yeah, I think that if you tried to do, I think if you tried to do The Munsters like that, is very much you might as well do Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein.

24:41AdamAs like.

24:42LeeI'm trying to remake that.

24:43AdamYeah.

24:44AdamBut keep it to that same you you know, you can't it's actually no, I'm probably wrong there because the point is in.

24:52AdamIn I mean, we'll get into it.

24:54AdamBut mainly the point is is that all the monsters are taken seriously and remain as monsters.

25:01AdamAnd I think that that is that would be the way to fuck The Munsters up.

25:07AdamIs if like you say, if you try and make it genuinely like they fulfill their horror roles, then it might as well not be called The Munsters because that's not the point of it.

25:19LeePrecisely.

25:19LeeThat's exactly it.

25:20LeeLike I don't I don't see how you can put those them in a horror scenario.

25:26LeeAnd not not mess with the format.

25:29LeeBut I mean.

25:31LeeWhat do you think, Chris?

25:32LeeI mean, obviously you're I think you haven't seen much of the TV show, you've only really seen The Munsters movie, is that right?

25:38ChrisYeah.

25:39ChrisLike I did see, you know, some of the episodes when I was younger, but I'd definitely mix them up with The Addams Family.

25:46ChrisUm, until watching the film and then obviously it all comes back.

25:50ChrisUm.

25:51ChrisYeah, how like Adam said, they are essentially a nice family.

25:57ChrisUm, although, yes, I mean, now I I can't remember who The Addams Family is.

26:02AdamBecause The Addams Family they are they are quite.

26:05AdamI mean, The Addams Family, they are weird and macab.

26:09AdamAnd deliberately so and enjoy it.

26:13ChrisOkay.

26:14AdamWhereas The Munsters are just they're trying to be normal, aren't they, essentially.

26:18ChrisYeah.

26:19ChrisThey're trying to fit in and yeah.

26:22ChrisUm, I I mean, I'd definitely be interested to see it, I've only seen House of a 1000 Corpses from Rob Zombie.

26:28ChrisUm, and I I remember Dracula, was that one of his songs, and before that I'd only heard what zombie, so I've not heard anything else from him, so I don't know him that well.

26:39LeeYeah.

26:40AdamUh, obviously the Dracula is a Munsters reference.

26:44ChrisYes, yeah.

26:46LeeYeah.

26:46ChrisWell.

26:47ChrisYeah, it's good to try things.

26:49LeeHe is and and that's the thing, you know, like we've said.

26:52LeeApart from with Star Wars, that we say all these things, you can try and reboot and change him.

26:56LeeAnd if it doesn't work, nobody's taking the originals away from you.

26:58LeeSo.

26:59ChrisYeah.

26:59LeeIt it can't be bad.

27:01LeeI I mean, there's no way I'm not going to see it, I don't care how bad the trailer or anything is, whatever happens, I will watch this movie.

27:07LeeUm.

27:08AdamI've got to just out of sheer interest.

27:10LeeYeah.

27:11AdamBecause I I've not watched I've not watched what was his last one, 31.

27:17LeeYeah, I've not got it.

27:18AdamAnd I've I've not watched that just because of how universally everyone said it was shite.

27:23AdamIncluding yourself, Lee, so I was like, no, I won't worry.

27:27LeeIt was so bad, it made me angry.

27:30LeeWhich as we know, doesn't happen very often.

27:34LeeI can watch a terrible film and come away and either think, well, it was terrible film, but I enjoyed something about it.

27:41LeeOr I can just come away and go, it's going to be fun to poke fun at, but that that film was so bad.

27:46LeeIt it angered me.

27:47LeeI won't get that time back.

27:49AdamI think it is also when it's a level of expectation from someone who's done stuff in the past and it doesn't quite.

27:55AdamYeah.

27:55LeeAnd that's the problem with him, like when he gets it right, he gets it really right, but when he gets it wrong, it's so spectacularly bad that I just can't.

28:03LeeAnd it just makes me think, are is his hits just good luck.

28:07LeeLike.

28:09LeeBut yeah.

28:10LeeI mean.

28:11ChrisOr is he is he trying to tread a fine line can go one way or the other?

28:15ChrisI mean, especially with something like this, he's trying to do it differently.

28:17AdamI get that impression.

28:19AdamI don't think he's going into these things lightly and it just me it probably is just that they miss fire.

28:24AdamOr you, you know, sometimes you get it get it absolutely right.

28:26AdamSometimes you get it absolutely wrong.

28:28LeeYeah.

28:29LeeYeah.

28:30LeeBut.

28:31LeeAnyway, good luck to your Rob.

28:32LeeAnyway, we'll look forward to seeing what you're going to do next.

28:34LeeUm.

28:35LeeSo.

28:37LeeOnto this evening's meat and potatoes, as uh, and if our our uh, our complaining customer is listening.

28:41LeeIt has been another 40 minutes until we get into the main subject.

28:43LeeUm, and I don't give a fuck.

28:44LeeSo.

28:46AdamHe didn't think the fuck drawer had found it empty.

28:52LeeI'm not taking this review personally.

28:54LeeUm.

28:56LeeSo on Chris's request this evening, uh, we've gone back to the Stone Cold Classic, in my opinion.

29:03LeeUh, 19 is it 48?

29:06AdamUm, it's.

29:07AdamYeah, it's 48.

29:08LeeYeah, 1948, uh, Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein.

29:14LeeUm, I know Adam and I have mentioned this a few times.

29:19LeeIt's one of those that comes up in the um, when we talk about universal sort of branching out.

29:25LeeWhen they found that the series was dying and they weren't getting the numbers in and this was a way of them trying to sort of generate that revenue again.

29:32LeeUm.

29:33LeeBut we love it as much as the original.

29:36LeeUm.

29:36LeeSo, Chris, what did you make of it on your first viewing?

29:39ChrisWell, I don't want to blow my own trumpet, but I think I chose very wisely.

29:42AdamNice.

29:44ChrisSo, yeah, like it really worked for me, having the element of humor with those monsters.

29:52ChrisUm, yeah, such a good synergy, I think.

29:56ChrisUm, it's what what are we watching, it was, uh, not Frankenstein's, uh, Bride of Frankenstein.

30:05LeeYeah.

30:06ChrisWe watched before and and yeah, that worked for me in a similar sort of way.

30:08ChrisSo, um, and of course.

30:10ChrisI um, I'm very happy because now I know who Abbott and Costello are, and the fact that it could be ready through our our criteria if it been horror.

30:18ChrisSo it's ticked all the right boxes once again.

30:20ChrisUm.

30:22ChrisNow skipping right to the end, did I hear Vincent Price's voice?

30:29AdamYou did indeed, sir.

30:30ChrisI did.

30:31ChrisI was.

30:32LeeOh.

30:32ChrisI was like, oh, look, what's that come from?

30:34LeeYeah.

30:35AdamYeah.

30:35ChrisSo because we've not seen the invisible man, so I'm assuming he must be the voice of the invisible man then.

30:41AdamNope.

30:42ChrisHe's not.

30:42AdamOkay.

30:43AdamNo.

30:44AdamThe the worrying thing is and I'll like we'll get into it, but basically Abbott and Costello had done.

30:52AdamI think I did write it down, this is this is their 22nd film that they released.

30:56ChrisOkay.

30:57AdamAnd and in total they did 36 films.

31:00AdamThey used to do like two a year.

31:03AdamAnd um, but yeah, this this kind of was.

31:06AdamThis came up a point where their sort of their popularity was beginning to wane.

31:09ChrisMm.

31:10AdamMostly because probably of over saturation.

31:12ChrisBut yeah.

31:13AdamBecause they were yeah, they were they literally were releasing two films a year.

31:18AdamAnd then when they did that, they would also re-release the back catalog.

31:23AdamAnd put that in theaters as well.

31:26AdamSo you would have so as they were going, you would just building up, you'd have like ten fucking Abbott and Costello films that you could be watching.

31:34AdamOr, you know, or by this point like 22.

31:37ChrisAnd they are great, but I can see that might be an over saturation.

31:40AdamYeah.

31:41AdamNo, I think I think it is just yeah, I think it's just too ubiquitous and everything.

31:45AdamWere there other duos, comedy duos at the time?

31:50AdamThe well, a lot of I did see a lot of things where they said it was.

31:53AdamOh, I can't think of who his fucking partner was, um, but.

31:58AdamUh, Jerry Lewis and um.

32:00AdamOh, Christ.

32:01AdamNo.

32:01AdamThat's gone.

32:02AdamIt's gone.

32:03AdamAnyway.

32:03AdamUm, but there were other.

32:05ChrisNo one has big.

32:08AdamWell, I mean, you've had sort of you've had sort of uh like Laurel and Hardy as well, like prior to this because really Abbott and Costello were huge in the forties and fifties and or like early fifties.

32:17AdamAnd they were actually the highest paid entertainers in World War Two.

32:22AdamLike during World War Two, they were they were earning the most of anyone and like I say, they they released loads and loads of films, they released they were on TV, they did radio, they would do guest appearances on other people's shows, they were they were really everywhere.

32:37AdamAnd um, and I know Chris, was it a rival you said was there.

32:44ChrisYes.

32:45LeeYeah.

32:46AdamBecause do they call is it they call the aliens in that Abbott and Costello?

32:55ChrisThe Neptos.

32:55LeeYeah.

32:55AdamYes.

32:56ChrisYeah.

32:57AdamAnd I thought I thought like you'd.

32:58ChrisWhy why would they have chosen those as the names for this film that's, you know, a serious film and I'm like I've heard of those names, but yeah, why would the writer decide to use those?

33:08ChrisObviously, it must be that they were very big and bigger than I realized, so I always thought I should find out who they are.

33:14ChrisUm.

33:15AdamI again, I think weirdly weirdly enough, I think there it's one of those acts where it's it just was too late to end up being indelible.

33:28AdamI don't think that they went into certainly not over here, I mean, I don't know, it's probably a very different thing in America where probably people are far more aware of them.

33:37AdamBut they were certainly in in terms they were an American sensation.

33:41AdamOkay.

33:41AdamSo.

33:42AdamIt you know, the majority of their success was the states.

33:43AdamSo.

33:44AdamI think over here they're probably not at certainly now, they're not as resonant a name as they probably still are over there.

33:53LeeIt's funny though, because I I felt watching it now that their comedy held up an awful lot better than, you know, like Laurel and Hardy and um.

34:05LeeThe Marx Brothers and that kind of like I know it's all it was, you know, it was all within a couple of decades, but their comedy I still sat on the sofa laughing out loud halfway through this.

34:15LeeLike I thought it still worked absolutely brilliantly.

34:16LeeAnd found it hilarious.

34:17LeeAnd not just enough, well, you know, it's funny if you give it a pass and accept that it was 70 years ago.

34:23LeeI I genuinely just still found it funny.

34:26AdamYeah.

34:27AdamIt's it's weird because I think it's I think it's very cartoon really.

34:31AdamIt's it has that sort of feeling where it's it's the same way as you watch Looney Tunes or something like that, where it's like Bugs Bunny making a side to the camera and stuff like that.

34:39AdamAlso, I mean apart from apart from let's let's face it.

34:43AdamA a fairly shitty attitude to taking two women out, um, you know.

34:49AdamWell, it's sort of like well, you've got two women.

34:52AdamI'll have one.

34:53AdamBut apart from that, I don't it's also remarkably undodgy, you don't I don't think to to my mind and, you know, I'm probably I might have missed something.

35:06AdamI don't know.

35:07AdamBut I don't think there's anything you kind of have to make allowances for, the there's not some scene where they're bloody blacked up or something stupid like that where you're like, oh, well, you know, at the time, but you're like, yeah, this is not fucking playing, is it?

35:25LeeYeah.

35:26AdamWhereas yeah, I still think that weirdly enough watching it, I think it's something that you could still show during the day, not have to worry, you know, too much about your kids watching it or whatever like that.

35:45LeeFinally enough, I was going to say, I allowed my kids to watch some of it.

35:48LeeSo.

35:49AdamOh.

35:49LeeOh yeah.

35:50LeeSo this first time they've seen yeah, so they've seen Frankenstein, I don't think they've ever mentioned him before.

35:55LeeReally like they sort of they know of him, but yeah, I don't think they've seen him.

35:59LeeAnd um, and Bella Lugosi playing Dracula, so yeah, they they were very entertained for the sort of 10 minutes.

36:04LeeThey were watching some of it.

36:09AdamYeah, because obviously because obviously this I was about to say, it's not it's not your first taste of Bella, but it's your first taste of Bella as Dracula.

36:19ChrisOkay.

36:20LeeOh, yeah, of course.

36:22AdamAnd it's.

36:23AdamBecause.

36:24AdamBecause actually he only played Dracula twice.

36:26ChrisMm.

36:27AdamOfficially.

36:27AdamHe's in.

36:29ChrisIt was so iconic.

36:31AdamYeah.

36:31AdamI mean.

36:32AdamIt's.

36:33AdamIt's.

36:33AdamIt's weird.

36:34AdamBecause.

36:34AdamBecause I was I was saying to Claire, I said, oh, you know, he's only he only played Dracula twice.

36:40AdamIn the original Dracula, like Universal Dracula, like 38 or whatever it is, 39.

36:46AdamAnd this.

36:48AdamAnd all other times he might have been I think I think he might have popped up on telly in like someone's sketch show or something like that.

36:58AdamAnd even then it would probably be, oh yeah, I'm doctor at killer.

37:02AdamSo they got past the having to pay universal.

37:04AdamOr anything even when Bella Lugosi's turned up in a cloak.

37:09AdamUm, but it is so it's weird to watch something when you realize that they only did it twice.

37:14AdamAnd it's still nearly a hundred years later.

37:19AdamThere's people still it's their default version of Dracula and that's yeah, I mean even stuff like, you know, the Count von Count in Sesame Street is Bella Lugosi.

37:28ChrisMm.

37:28AdamIt's the widow's peak, it's the eyebrows.

37:31AdamHe's the voice.

37:32AdamIt's.

37:33AdamYeah.

37:33AdamAnd it's still how everyone kind of well, it's still how popular culture take on Dracula.

37:41AdamIs much in the same way as if you ask a kid to draw Frankenstein, they've got to they do it with a square head and bolts.

37:45AdamEven though that's universal and not Mary Shelley.

37:51LeeAgain, it's.

37:52LeeIt's back to it's back to the work that Jack Pierce did.

37:54LeeAll those years ago, which has which as we say, you know, 90 years on is still the resounding image.

37:59LeeIt despite the fact we've all read the book and we've all seen all the adaptations, it's that universal makeup that we all go to default on on all of these characters.

38:06LeeIt's incredible.

38:08AdamI did read an interesting thing where someone said, because obviously Bella Lugosi, the one thing was is that he got really type cast and would play villains and versions of Dracula and I think he played he has he played other vampires or certainly did in a couple of films and um, and someone actually said that possibly the reason that Boris Karloff didn't suffer in the same way.

38:27AdamI mean, one, I don't think Boris Karloff was as bothered as Bella Lugosi.

38:35AdamI think Boris Karloff was just like, well, we're working, so, you know.

38:40AdamBut because he was so heavily made up, he could then go off and do other things.

38:46AdamBecause but whereas Bella Lugosi is essentially, you know, it's he's.

38:52AdamThere's barely any makeup involved whatsoever.

38:55AdamYou know.

38:56AdamIt's just him.

38:58AdamAnd so he immediately to create such an impression, unfortunately, did then mean that he wasn't going to get, you know, romantic lead.

39:06ChrisHe was a natural born Dracula.

39:09AdamYeah, he's a natural born drack.

39:13AdamBut it's yeah, so but they um, I think and as I was saying, I think the one thing that I and this is this goes back to when I was first.

39:22AdamWhen I first got into like Quentin Tarantino like with with, well, essentially with Reservoir Dogs and True Romance.

39:29AdamUm, I remember watching a.

39:31AdamWhen Pulp Fiction was coming out, they had like some it was like arena or something on the beat, and they had like a they did like a big Tarantino special.

39:39AdamAnd he was talking about a lot of his influences.

39:42AdamAnd one of the things that came up was Abbott and Costello meet Dracula, and he said it was he said because it taught him how to do it properly.

39:50AdamThat you don't diminish your villain, so even if your film is funny and even if the villain is funny.

39:57AdamThey still do bad things.

40:01AdamAnd he was like, you know, and his example was The Monster throws Dr. Morna out of the window.

40:06AdamYou know.

40:07AdamShe is killed.

40:08AdamThere is no two ways about it.

40:09AdamIt's, you know.

40:10AdamAnd thingy what's his name, Mr. McDoo will get nearly gets his throat ripped out and stuff like that.

40:17AdamAnd so.

40:19AdamAlthough even like when the even when the Wolfman is padding around after him in the hotel room.

40:26AdamAnd it is funny.

40:27AdamBecause um will was not noticed that he is being pursued by the Wolfman.

40:31AdamAnd it has an element of pantomime to it.

40:32AdamBecause obviously it would just come straight out and rip the fucking threads.

40:36AdamBut that threat is never diminished, it's never sort of like, oh no, it will rip them the shreds if it gets him.

40:42LeeYeah.

40:43AdamYeah.

40:43AdamYou know.

40:44LeeYeah.

40:45AdamAnd.

40:46LeeIt's.

40:46LeeThen it's it's keeping the same.

40:47LeeYou know, I made a note as well, the transformation and the makeup and everything.

40:52LeeExactly the same as they are in The Wolfman, they don't like ham it up or go for a, well, you know, we'll take the edge off and make it slightly less scary as this is a comedy audience.

41:00LeeThey just gave us what they got with Universal.

41:02Lee100%.

41:05ChrisYes.

41:06AdamYeah.

41:07AdamAnd it's.

41:08AdamIt's interesting because I like we're talking about Rob Zombie.

41:10AdamAnd trying to combine two different genres, like it could fail miserably.

41:15AdamYou'd think it's interesting that that worked so well keeping them exactly as they are.

41:21AdamBut.

41:22AdamObviously, it doesn't unfold exactly the same.

41:24AdamBut yeah, it's.

41:25AdamIt's funny how it does work so well.

41:28AdamAnd I think actually and the weird thing is is I think that it's um there's a certain element like playful element to Dracula anyway.

41:43ChrisMm.

41:44AdamSo I think it doesn't he doesn't get diminished by actually having conversations with them and everything.

41:49ChrisDoes he sort of likes to do mind tricks.

41:53AdamYeah, he plays with the with them a bit.

41:55AdamYeah.

41:56AdamAnd so that kind of that kind of still works and and like likely was saying with the you know, not only did the transformations and the makeup are not only are they same, but.

42:10AdamYou actually get quite a good bit of monster for your money with this.

42:14ChrisYeah, absolutely.

42:16AdamIt's not just it's not just um not just been stuck in a yeah.

42:23AdamBecause I think.

42:24AdamIt's like within within the first like five minutes you see the Wolfman.

42:27ChrisMm.

42:28AdamAnd there's something very satisfying about that, especially if you were.

42:32AdamYou know, if you were going to see it because you were a horror fan, not necessarily an Abbott and Costello fan.

42:37ChrisMm.

42:39AdamYou know, I think you wouldn't feel cheated.

42:41AdamNo.

42:42AdamExactly, I don't think.

42:44AdamAnd because there's.

42:46AdamThere does seem to be a weird basically it's not part of.

42:51AdamUniversal Canon, you know, it's not part of the overall story.

42:55AdamBut there seems to have been a lot of grey area about that at the time.

43:01AdamI don't think anyone.

43:02AdamI don't think any of the people at Universal were one way or the other with it.

43:09AdamSo because apparently apparently it was originally it didn't even have Abbott and Costello in the title.

43:16AdamThey only did that so that people were in a way, which I think again was being fair.

43:22AdamIs they did it so that people wouldn't go to it.

43:25AdamExpecting like just a straight horror film.

43:28AdamUm, but originally it was called um, The Brain of Frankenstein.

43:34AdamWhich immediately kind of puts it in that Frankenstein lineage because you've got like son of, Bride of, Ghost of, House of.

43:43AdamAnd so.

43:44AdamYeah, so there seems to have been possibly at the time that they were like this is our this is us wrapping up the universal monsters.

43:54ChrisYeah.

43:55AdamBecause and again, it's a weird one because I think it was just.

44:00AdamBoth both Abbott and Costello and the universal monsters were both in a popularity decline, but this really rejuvenated it.

44:10AdamCertainly sort of like this film was a big success and then I think they tried it again and I don't you know.

44:17AdamThere's reasons why we've probably not pursued and seen any of the others.

44:22AdamIs because they're not quite up to the standard.

44:24AdamBut yeah.

44:25AdamAnd then obviously the thing was.

44:26AdamIs in terms of universal stuff, Boris Karloff then obviously goes on and does the mummy and things like that, so he becomes Universal's A star, and even down to the fact that like you get um, like Lugosi's in the Wolfman, but he's it's like a character part.

44:46AdamIt's not particularly, you know, he's not he's not a starring role, it's not he has what two minutes of screen time maybe.

44:51ChrisIs it good, I'd say, it's a good choice for the character, for the role, but.

44:53AdamOh yeah, you know, it's just well, this is the thing.

44:56AdamIs I think, you know, he he was sort of I think he was just pokering along and he just was getting less and less work, and partially, I think it was partially, I think it was just people were like, well, we don't want we don't want a Dracula vibe for this.

45:08AdamSo we won't hire Dracula and it's like he's not Dracula, he's you know.

45:13AdamYou know, but you can sort of you can sort of understand it.

45:16AdamIn terms of, you know, especially it's a very cut throat, you know, movies is and always has been a very sort of cut throat sort of a fuck you sort of a industry anyway.

45:32AdamAnd as soon as you're not in favor or you're not getting the rolls or whatever like that, you you you tend to get neglected.

45:41ChrisWell, I suppose there's there's a lot of money involved and a lot of pressure, a lot of people and yeah.

45:45ChrisSo you all want what you're doing to be a success.

45:49LeeYeah, and like he.

45:50LeeLike you said with the like as as the opposite with with Frankenstein's monster.

45:55LeeYou know, um, his portrayal of Dracula was fantastic, but it's his face and it's his voice.

46:01LeeSo no matter what you put him in, you're going to see that as Dracula in that character.

46:06LeeWhereas.

46:06LeeYou say.

46:07LeeUm, uh, the Frankenstein's monster.

46:08LeeReally heavy makeup, as you say, he has maybe five or six lines.

46:12LeeIn that whole like so little dialogue, get away with it, and then you could just put him in the next thing and it'd be fine.

46:17LeeYou could just move from that to the ghoul to the mummy.

46:18LeeAgain, he's completely wrapped up in the mummy.

46:19LeeAlthough he does the you get to see him as.

46:21AdamAs Karis, yeah.

46:22LeeUm, uh, anyway.

46:24LeeUm, uh, but yeah.

46:24LeeSo you get.

46:25LeeSo you get to see him in those dual roles, but again, you can make him up and just you don't know who he is and I think that was the problem with um with Lugosi.

46:33LeeWas that character was so he was so ingrained with that character.

46:37LeeIt was just hard to move him away from anything.

46:41AdamYeah.

46:42AdamAnd even even in terms of his vocal delivery, you know, that was just how he spoke.

46:47AdamHe wasn't doing Dracula.

46:48ChrisYeah.

46:49AdamThat was just how he spoke.

46:50AdamSo again, if he was playing, if he was doing anything else.

46:54AdamI mean, not to say that he couldn't do other voices possibly or could, you know.

46:58AdamModify or whatever like that, but I think the expectation would be that oh.

47:03AdamYeah, we we hire him if we want Dracula, and then as I say, ironically, there's only twice that he actually plays the character.

47:09ChrisYeah.

47:10AdamUm, and um.

47:12AdamYeah, when he when he died, he was buried in his Dracula cape.

47:16AdamUh on the suggestion of his son.

47:18ChrisMm.

47:19AdamIt was like, oh, you think that would want to be buried in his cave.

47:23AdamAnd yes.

47:23AdamHe was.

47:24ChrisSo that's interesting.

47:25ChrisI was going to say, um, as you said, he was typecast as Dracula.

47:27ChrisUm, and so he was happy about that or was happy about it to start with, but then.

47:33AdamI think I think he was happy with the fact that obviously it got him work.

47:36AdamBut I think also it it wasn't so much that it got him work but it was what it cut off because basically especially once because obviously Dracula came out, it was an insane fucking hit.

47:46ChrisOnce once you've said no, you've turned something down.

47:47ChrisYou you're not a team player.

47:52AdamYeah.

47:53AdamBut then interestingly enough, what happened was is that then Universal was like, all right, so horror's the thing, right, so we've done Dracula, next one on the list, we obviously do Frankenstein.

48:04AdamAnd Bella Lugosi was offered the part of the monster, but he didn't he didn't fancy doing something that was made up.

48:11AdamAnd didn't um, I can't remember, he doesn't have any lines in the first one, does he?

48:16AdamIt's Bride of Frankenstein very first speaks.

48:18AdamSo again, he was just like, oh, what what sort of a part is this?

48:21AdamYou know, he's like.

48:22AdamOh, no one will know it's me.

48:23AdamAnd I'll be under makeup.

48:24AdamI don't have any lines.

48:25AdamWhat's the point.

48:26AdamAnd then obviously Boris Karloff did it.

48:29AdamFrankenstein was an even bigger fucking hit.

48:32AdamAnd Boris Karloff started getting more phone calls than Bella Lugosi say, but also they they actually, I mean, they did some they even did some films together.

48:39AdamThey did um what is it, The Invisible Ray and Black Cat.

48:41AdamOne of the two Black Cats that Bella Lugosi did actually.

48:44AdamOne with Carloff and one not.

48:46AdamUm, and.

48:47AdamYeah, so he did he appeared in um, he appeared with Karloff in a few films.

48:53AdamBut I think Karloff was just doing better.

48:56AdamAnd also.

48:57AdamI think that there was maybe Karloff had a better range.

49:00ChrisMm.

49:01AdamBut also.

49:02AdamI don't know if Lugosi was just given the chance necessarily.

49:06AdamBut there was there was a distinct that was quite that was quite the tragedy of it.

49:10AdamIt's by the time because because obviously Karloff sort of like did.

49:14AdamLike the first three and was like, no.

49:16AdamI don't want to do it anymore.

49:17AdamAnd then eventually.

49:18AdamBella Lugosi ended up playing the monster.

49:20AdamAnd ironically, had all his lines cut.

49:23AdamSo.

49:24AdamIt was like, you know, so he almost ended up sort of back to.

49:26AdamThe proposition that at the time he was like, no, I don't need this.

49:31AdamYeah, and actually, I mean, it might have been.

49:33AdamI mean, who knows, I mean, it might have, you know, so much is bound up in the performances and how these things work out.

49:40AdamWho knows, Frankenstein might not have been a hit with with Lugosi is the monster.

49:44AdamBut it probably would have been.

49:47AdamAnd.

49:48AdamYeah.

49:49AdamAnd then obviously the thing was.

49:50AdamIs in terms of universal stuff, Boris Karloff then obviously goes on and does the mummy and things like that, so he becomes Universal's A star.

49:58AdamAnd even down to the fact that like you get um, like Lugosi's in the Wolfman, but he's it's like a character part.

50:05AdamIt's not particularly, you know, he's not a starring role.

50:08AdamHe's not he has what.

50:09AdamTwo minutes of screen time.

50:10LeeMaybe.

50:11AdamYeah.

50:11LeeYou know.

50:12AdamWell.

50:12AdamThis is.

50:13AdamThis is the thing.

50:14AdamIs I think, you know, he he was sort of I think he was just pokering along and he just was getting less and less work.

50:20AdamAnd partially, I think it was partially, I think it was just people were like, well, we don't want we don't want a Dracula vibe for this, so we won't hire Dracula.

50:29AdamAnd it's like he's not Dracula.

50:29AdamHe's just.

50:30AdamYou know.

50:31AdamIt's not Dracula, he's just how he spoke.

50:34AdamAnd actually, weirdly enough.

50:34AdamI think the the sort of like the Ed Wood element, that almost feels that almost feels like, oh, I mean, he's on a different.

50:43AdamCertainly on a different success level.

50:46AdamRegardless of anything else.

50:48AdamBut that feels a bit like where you've got um, like you get with Quentin Tarantino where it's like, oh, you know.

50:56AdamHe revives John Travolta's career.

50:58ChrisMm.

50:59AdamYou know, like Pulp Fiction comes out and suddenly John Travolta is actually a bankable name in cinema for the first time in like 15 years or whatever it is.

51:06AdamAnd I think similarly, weirdly enough, you know, if if the.

51:09AdamUh, if the Ed Wood films had been huge, it would have been like a final hurrah for Lugosi of actually sort of like, yeah, I'm, you know.

51:20LeeI am.

51:20LeeThis.

51:21LeeThis is the thing.

51:22AdamYou know, I am the I am the ostensible star in these in these films.

51:26AdamAnd then obviously the thing was is in terms of universal stuff, Boris Karloff then obviously goes on and does the mummy and things like that.

51:34AdamSo he becomes Universal's A star.

51:35AdamAnd even down to the fact that like you get um, like Lugosi's in the Wolfman, but he's it's like a character part, it's not particularly, you know.

51:45AdamHe's not a starring role, it's not he has what.

51:49AdamTwo minutes of screen time.

51:50LeeMaybe.

51:51AdamYeah.

51:52LeeExcellent.

51:53LeeRight, thanks ever so much for listening, everybody.

51:55LeeHope you enjoyed it.

51:57LeeUh, and we will see you all next week, we'll be back for Mos Eisley Happy Hour.

52:02LeeWhen we'll be covering, uh, the Fulsa Wekins.

52:05AdamMm, yeah.

52:07LeeYeah.

52:07AdamOh.

52:07LeeI've already skipped ahead.

52:08LeeI've.

52:09LeeYeah, I've watched the Star Wars now.

52:11LeeI've done all this.

52:12AdamWe've watched the Star Wars film.

52:13AdamOkay.

52:15LeeYou go.

52:16LeeUm, yeah.

52:17LeeAnd then the following week, uh, all things working well.

52:18LeeWe'll be back, uh, the three of us and Alex to discuss Jaws.

52:21LeeSo.

52:22LeeThanks.