Bram Stoker's Dracula
00:38:27
About
Following our Muppet version of the film, and in the spirit of not doing too much work over Crimbo, we’re looking at “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”. A film in which Ted goes on a less than excellent adventure; Withnail keeps Tom Waits on a remarkably protein-rich diet; and Hannibal Lecter clearly cannot be arsed having just won an Oscar. Unleashed with much fanfare in 1992, director Francis Ford Coppola wanted to bring to the screen a definitive version of Stoker’s novel (except for all the extra bits he bunged in for good measure). This ambition weirdly highlights some of the pitfalls of a faithful adaptation, with a number of characters usually dispensed with or amalgamated in other versions left to clutter up the narrative. It features what is a genuinely stellar cast both for now and then, but with some actors not necessarily suited to their roles. However, it’s still Coppola, so it still remains a well-made, beautifully shot gothic romance; which certainly equals the novel for pace and drama, and even adds some iconic imagery to the old myth which is still appearing over 30 years after the film’s release.
I have crossed oceans of time to find you.
Famous lines
- "Love never dies."
- "For the dead travel fast."— Girl in carriage
- "The blood is the life!"— R.M. Renfield
Quotes verified against Wikiquote.
Adam's research
Verbatim lifts from Adam's own words in the episode. Click a timestamp to hear him say it.
- Film's unique 'making of' video release strategy
But I also had the thing that I sent you that's on YouTube, which was they it's the weirdest thing I was explaining it to Clare and she found it insane. Was that, so, the film came out at the cinema, but obviously wasn't going to come out probably a good six months to a year on rental. So, the only way obviously I saw it by a pirate. But what they would do, and they I think they did it for a few films, but this is the only one I really remember it with. They released the making of as like a little 25-minute video. Like almost like how they did Thriller. Where the video was the making of Thriller, but you still had Thriller at the end of it. But it meant that you weren't just buying a music video, but you got the long form music video and all the back story on it and everything else like that. So they released this video, Sarah bought it, and so we were just watching it, because obviously it's got clips from the film in there. But also it was like sort of it was basically, I think what it would be called now is um, like um, a video press kit. It was like what they'd send out to people for as part of the sort of promotion of the film and the buff and to TV stations they might show it. Uh, like America has a lot more, had a lot more channels then, so they had a lot more entertainment news and things like that. So it was the sort of thing that would crop up like, I remember I had on video somewhere a making of Batman Returns, same sort of thing, 25 minutes, a few talking heads, a few clips, and that was it. And, but, so that in my head was kind of an integral part of it. And I became fascinated with how they sort of Coppola's process of how he made the film.
- History and adaptations of Dracula films
Oh, there's there's so many and Universal span them off, um, into sort of team-ups and Because weirdly enough, Bella Lugosi only played him twice. But then obviously he had Hammer who also would do like Hammer House of Horror. … Yeah. … He's basically the Count von Count. Um, you know, that's that's why it's still the accent and the cape and the medallion is all Bella Lugosi. And it still sort of retains now. Hm. But yeah, over the years, loads of people have done adaptations of it. When when Universal made the first one, they made the Spanish one at the same time. So that's two made exactly the same point. And um, yeah, so there's a lot there's lots out there.
- Film's controversial eroticism and rating
But yeah, I think it's also, Because I'm thinking about it, I think that was probably the thing is you we would have been like, like we'd have been 13. Hm. So obviously, obviously had blood, obviously had boobs, you know, it was sort of a bit poly, a bit sort of, … They make it because I I remember reading just before we it was the blurb, I think, when we looked at it on because we had the recording off of Film 4 that we watched before we did the Muppets. And it was like sort of like, you know, uh, with the controversial eroticism for its time. And that's like, was there? And I and I realized that obviously as a 13-year-old, having a movie film. This probably kept it top 10. for at least another three years after I first saw it. You know what I mean?
- Film's deviation from and challenges of adapting the original book
Well, I I think it's just he's a seducer. You know, in whatever way that is meant, you know, it's sort of that's the characterization of it. So it definitely is a romantic sort of. element that comes into it. When I was watching it actually, because because obviously Francis Ford Coppola was like, oh, um, we want to do the book. Hm. You know, and the book's not been done properly. And I think there's an element there when it's like, yeah, but the reason the book's not been done properly. is because as a movie, you've got too many characters in there. That's why they usually just have they usually combine the three suitors and sometimes just remove them completely and just have Jonathan. Because I think that's sort of yeah, I'm making an hour and a half movie. I'm not doing a book. Which is because the because the book is alway is made up of diary entries and letters and stuff like that. And it suddenly occurred to me, is that the only way you could do the book properly? Is you almost make a series of smaller movies, so you do it from Mina's perspective, um, Jonathan's perspective, uh, Dr. Steward and so on. Like all the people who contribute in the book. So you almost have like a you know, almost like have a completely different aesthetic for each person's thing. I mean, it'd be disjointed as fuck and people would hate it. But I think that's possibly, you know, if you really want to do the book. Because I mean, obviously then puts on the Vlad the Impaler stuff at the start and again, that's not the book. No. So it's kind of it's a weird choice to then call it Bram Stoker's Dracula. Especially because it's technically Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
- Iconic visual designs and cultural impact
I think I I think it has managed to sort of have its own iconic nature. Because the older Dracula with the hair hair and the red cape and everything, that has that's the Dracula that gets taken from this film. You know, if people want to use that, I mean, obviously the Mr. Burns is dressed as it in the Simpsons at one point and so on and so forth. And it's that's it's always that look that is the iconic one that sort of come from it. And Lucy's um sort of like once Lucy's vampirized and it's like her funeral gown. I've seen loads of people like uh use that look and stuff like that. That's obviously really sort of taken.
- Film score composer and reuse in other media
and didn't they reuse it in They used it in American Horror Story, I think. In the first series of American Horror Story, I think this was like the music that accompanied the black Dahlia. Dr. Murder bits. Because they they reuse a lot of scores and things like that, they use Candyman and things. But um, and then obviously at the end of it, you've got Annie Lennox's love song for a vampire.
- Demanda Gallas's contribution to sound design
But I hadn't there's a couple of things, music-based that I didn't know about. So one of the things, because I was going, I remember going when it's the brides attacking Mina and Van Helsing, I loved all the sort of cackling and the weird shrieks and everything that was going on on there. And then in the end credits, I noticed that um Demanda Gallas is uh there's a song of hers in here, but also apparently she I I looked it up and she was actually contributing to the sound design. And she's like a um, uh, she's a a singer, but she does the most extraordinary like operatic disturbing gothic weirdness and um, yeah, I've got I've got a few of her albums and she's like like a sort of um, activist and uh composer and stuff like that. And so she does all those sort of weird bits. So I was in a way, I was quite pleased, I was like, Oh, this has obviously been resonating with me since. Since before I knew her. Because I got introduced to her through the Netball Killers soundtrack a few years later. Hm. So, but that point I was really, but but here's the one that got me.
- Lux Interior performed Dracula's scream
When he stabs the cross and screams, that's not Gary Oldman. No. Because apparently Gary Oldman couldn't quite nail it. I mean, I don't know if you guys watched those makings of, but … Yeah. Too sweet. Doesn't he? … But I mean we we'll have to discuss how they do that weird make. how they made it weirdly. But before I forget, so Gary Oldman couldn't nail the scream. At the suggestion of Sophia Coppola, uh, Francis Ford Coppola's daughter, who's director and Oscar-winning screenwriter in her own right these days. She suggested, why don't we get Lux Interior from the Cramps in? And that is who did the fucking scream. … Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. She was just a. Yeah, Lux Interior, scream. You feel amazing. So, yeah. So basically, yeah, so that's Lux Interior's scream, not Gary Oldman.
- Coppola's unique rehearsal process
But you can see from the making of that there's a lot of headbanging going on. It's a weird. Yes. But also the fact that that always fascinated me that sort of France. Because in a weird way, I watched this making of and that I didn't appreciate at the time. How fucking unusual a setup it was, where it was like, Come to my house. This is Coppola, come to my house. Live here. I'll just put you up bed and bored, we'll fuck around, do drama games. Rehearse on a sort of half built sound stage of what you you know, so you can really work it through and give it that sort of rehearsal time that you'd normally get for like a play or something. Hm. You know. But and then we'll go off and do the fucking film. And you're like, that is incredible.
- 90s trend of 'high brow' horror adaptations
Because there's also that because the 90s is a weird. sort of period in terms of horror. And certainly, like this sort of seemed to be part of a trend of, well, we're going to do a horror. It's not not absolutely a horror. You know, it's almost like we'll sneak it in by putting in romance. or, you know, it's or sort of it's like, look, it's not really horror, so normal people could come and see it. It's okay. And. Yeah. But you also got because there was um, but it's this sort of weird thing of you Kenneth Branagh did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Which again is kind of I find it similar to this. I mean, I haven't seen it for bloody. years and years and years, but. I find it similar to this because as I remember, it's like, we're doing the book. Oh, except for those bits that we're not doing from the book. You know. And. But when they, you know, you've slapped the author's name on it, you're pretty, you're making a statement that there. But there was also a weird one where it was like and this sounds like a fever dream, I'm sure it's not, but I'm sure there was a Jekyl and Hyde, but it was all told from the perspective of the made who was Julia Roberts. Yeah. And it was. No, but that's a. Do you know what I mean? It's like. So they would have all these sort of like, no, no, we can be high brow about it. You know, we can, you know. Horror is a literary genre. They did seem to want to do them as as movies all of this point.
Highlights
Transcript
Show full transcript
LeeGood evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamI'm Adam.
JenniferI'm Jennifer.
LeeYeah.
AdamYay!
LeeJennifer has returned as you can hear from our poor recording quality.
JenniferHey!
LeeWell, no, it's not no.
LeeI don't what I mean is I'm not upstairs in the room with the microphone. I'm just on the webcam and the my isn't as good.
Adamrubbishing you.
Jennifer
AdamHe's he's not got he's not got his professional with pop shield.
Chrisyeah.
AdamHe can do.
UnknownHello late night callers.
ChrisAnd it's not rubbishing you yet, but we'll see by the end of the episode.
LeeWell,
Leeyeah, so as promised, we're back this evening following our Muppets Bram Stoker's Dracula episode. We are covering Bram Stoker's Dracula, which yeah,
LeeI still can't believe we haven't covered, but
JenniferHe wouldn't let me.
LeeNot true.
ChrisAnd probably the right way around, maybe.
LeeYes.
LeeBut yeah, so I've had a bit of a different time with this film yet again, but we'll get into that in a bit.
LeeSo both of you had seen this film previously.
LeeWhat's your history with it, Chris?
ChrisI knew all about it.
ChrisI knew that some people liked it.
ChrisI knew that Jennifer liked it a lot, that probably made me think, you know, I don't need to watch that, really, do I?
ChrisIt's probably not that good.
ChrisTurns out I was wrong.
ChrisI'll let her off.
JenniferHey!
ChrisI'm sure, I'm sure that's been the case for a few other films.
ChrisI've never seen Legends of the Fall, but let's not go too far down that road because
JenniferYeah.
AdamWe were doing this on this podcast show.
ChrisNo, this is not.
JenniferExcept it's probably not a good film, it just had Brad Pitt in it, apparently.
Chriswell,
ChrisI'll I'll also let you have that after I've seen some of his great films, but anyway, let's let's go back to Bram Stoker's Dracula. Having watched it for the Muppets, I definitely should have watched it many years ago, because it's exactly the sort of film I like.
Chris
ChrisAnd having seen some of these makings of.
AdamOh, yeah.
ChrisThey've added a they've added a few little extra flavors for me to think, yeah, I like what they did there.
Lee
Leeand how about you, Adam, what's your history with this?
AdamWell, it came out.
AdamObviously, it was a Dracula film, it was Gary Oldman, it was Francis Ford Coppola, Winona Ryder, Sadie Frost, Anthony Hopkins.
AdamIt was Keanu Reeves. You can't No, I don't think Keanu Reeves was a selling point at that point.
AdamAnd certainly wasn't a selling point much long after.
AdamIt's only in recent years that I have truly begun to appreciate that that man is a Christ who walks among us.
LeeYes.
AdamI like He is just a decent fucking human being.
ChrisAlso, he may not be the best actor,
Chrisbut I actually still He's not the worst.
ChrisHe doesn't put me off.
ChrisHe doesn't put me off any film that he's in.
ChrisI don't think I'm not watching that because this is bad.
ChrisLike somehow he slots in and it's it's good.
AdamYes.
Adamperfectly fine.
AdamAnd like I say, I think that the fact that he appears to be I mean, this is this is me tipping the scales here.
AdamThere'll be some controversy comes out now.
AdamBut no, but seriously, it just seems like a decent human being.
AdamAnd that seems which is not something I can say for even actors I like.
LeeYeah.
Adamreally.
AdamSo,
Adamyou know, Or or many humans, really.
ChrisYeah.
AdamExactly.
AdamYou know, he so, yeah.
AdamHe definitely wins on that scale now.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSo, I think at the time I was kind of just I was caught up in the hype a bit.
AdamAnd I enjoyed it.
AdamI actually, I mean, I had a pirate version of it.
Adam
AdamSarah did, but massive Gary Oldman fan as well, massive Dracula fan, so she she went and saw it.
AdamI assume I was too young.
AdamPossibly.
AdamWhat have been in '92, because I don't think this was an 18.
AdamIt might have been a 15.
LeeYeah, so we were coupled here shy, I think of the
AdamYeah, so, so she saw it in the cinema, but my mate, had a pirate VHS of it.
AdamWhich I can only describe in one word, red.
Lee
AdamYeah.
AdamSeriously, even watching it now, it doesn't work the same.
AdamI saw like a fantasmagoric Dario Argento lit version of this.
AdamEverything was light, like light punching you in the eyes.
AdamJust everything was so like fucking vivid.
ChrisThat must have been good for the blood at the start.
AdamOh, it it worked brilliantly.
AdamBut like I say, I mean, the the main palette of this film in my head is just red.
AdamBecause that's, you know, it's it was the overriding quality of it.
AdamBut I also had the thing that I sent you that's on YouTube, which was they
Adamit's the weirdest thing I was explaining it to Clare and she found it insane.
AdamWas that, so, the film came out at the cinema, but obviously wasn't going to come out probably a good six months to a year on rental.
LeeYeah.
AdamSo, the only way obviously I saw it by a pirate.
AdamBut what they would do, and they I think they did it for a few films, but this is the only one I really remember it with.
AdamThey released the making of as like a little 25-minute video.
LeeOkay.
Chris
AdamLike almost like how they did Thriller.
AdamWhere the video was the making of Thriller, but you still had Thriller at the end of it.
AdamBut it meant that you weren't just buying a music video, but you got the long form music video and all the back story on it and everything else like that.
AdamSo they released this video, Sarah bought it, and so we were just watching it, because obviously it's got clips from the film in there.
AdamBut also it was like sort of it was basically, I think what it would be called now is like a video press kit.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt was like what they'd send out to people for as part of the sort of promotion of the film and the buff and to TV stations they might show it. like America has a lot more, had a lot more channels then, so they had a lot more entertainment news and things like that.
AdamSo it was the sort of thing that would crop up like, I remember I had on video somewhere a making of Batman Returns, same sort of thing, 25 minutes, a few talking heads, a few clips, and that was it.
AdamAnd, but, so that in my head was kind of an integral part of it.
AdamAnd I became fascinated with how they sort of Coppola's process of how he made the film.
AdamBut also I have gradually just really I just gradually fell out of love with it.
AdamI don't think it's that good a film.
AdamYou know, that's that's I've so it's one that at the time I enjoyed, the more I watch it.
AdamAnd certainly, I think also weirdly enough, I think it's one of those things where actually as a big Dracula fan.
AdamI don't think it is, you know.
AdamIt's not certainly not top five, if top 10. No.
ChrisSo, so one of the things that I I noted from the making of, that there are about 200.
ChrisDracula films.
AdamOh, there's there's so many and Universal span them off, into sort of team-ups and
AdamBecause weirdly enough, Bella Lugosi only played him twice.
AdamBut then obviously he had Hammer who also would do like Hammer House of Horror.
ChrisI thought she was very iconic, he kind of set the standard.
AdamYeah.
AdamHe's basically the Count von Count.
Adamyou know, that's that's why it's still the accent and the cape and the medallion is all Bella Lugosi.
AdamAnd it still sort of retains now.
Adam
AdamBut yeah, over the years, loads of people have done adaptations of it.
AdamWhen when Universal made the first one, they made the Spanish one at the same time.
AdamSo that's two made exactly the same point.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd yeah, so there's a lot there's lots out there.
AdamBut yeah, I just think and I think also going back to it now, I'm a bit just like again.
AdamI love everyone in this, but I don't love everyone in this.
LeeYeah.
JenniferYeah.
AdamYou know, it's like they're all great people.
AdamBut I mean,
Adamlike for a start, Anthony Hopkins just feels like
ChrisOh,
Chrisit has to be one of his one of his, yeah,
Adamworst.
AdamIt's sort of just he just don't seem to I don't think I think I don't think he gives a fuck.
AdamI think I think maybe Gary Oldman gives too much of a fuck.
LeeYeah.
AdamKeanu's miscast, Winona's miscast,
AdamSadie Frost is great, but I think that the the whole point with Lucy is that she becomes weird and sort of lusty and sexy once Dracula's involved.
AdamWhereas this version sort of is a bit more,
AdamShe's kind of already there, you know.
AdamAnd sort of, you know, because the whole point is kind of like Dracula turns up and then she stops being Victorian repressed femininity and starts to You did have three suitors at the start, Adam, so
JenniferYou did have three suitors at the start, there.
AdamExactly, I mean, there's still that sort of element there, definitely.
AdamBut
AdamSo, yeah, and I just think that's sort of,
Adamit Renfield's fucking great.
AdamYou know.
AdamTom Waits is Renfield's great.
AdamRichard E Grant's brilliant because it's Richard E Grant and around the time when Richard E Grant just could turn up and be brilliant immediately.
AdamAnd
Adamyeah, it's sort of so,
Adambut yeah, and and it's obviously Francis Ford Coppola, it's like fucking, you know, got the Godfather and Apocalypse Now.
AdamThese are,
Adamyou know, and then it's like, and he wants to do Dracula.
AdamAnd he does it and the music's fantastic.
AdamThe the sets and everything else like that, the makeup's great.
AdamBut I just, yeah, it's just sort of gone a bit,
Adamfor me, as a film.
AdamYou know,
LeeSee, I so having checked, yeah, so it was an 18, yeah, so we would have been 13 when we came out.
LeeSo we wouldn't have got into the cinema to see it.
Lee
LeeSo I when this film first came out and I got it on VHS, I so I think I rented it to begin with and then when it came out to buy, I bought it and watched it a few times and really enjoyed it.
Lee
Leeand then I didn't watch it for years and then I went back and watched it again probably in my early 20s.
LeeAnd was like, what did I like about this?
LeeIt's all.
AdamYeah, it's awful.
LeeAnd then I left it a number of years and went back to it maybe 10 years later.
LeeI watched it again.
LeeAnd was like, oh, it's not as bad as I thought.
LeeIt's just the casting, as we say, you know, apart from Tom Waits, Gary Oldman.
Lee
Leeit just it's not yeah, everybody's just wrong in it.
LeeWhich isn't their fault, they've just been put in the wrong place.
AdamNo, they haven't.
LeeSo.
LeeBut yeah, having gone back and watched it today with this, this is going to be a slog.
Lee
LeeI actually enjoyed it more than I thought I was going to.
LeeI think it's got I think it's got more positive things about it than I remember.
LeeAnd I think that poor casting has set me so against it.
LeeAnd on which is why yeah, when Jennifer said, oh, I want to cover a film.
Leeand gave three options for a birthday choice, I was like, well, we're not watching that pile of garbage.
Lee
LeeBut yeah, but actually going back and watch it, I was like, it has got a lot of redeeming features.
LeeAnd I think it's I don't think it's a terribly made film.
AdamNo.
LeeIt's it's just.
LeeAnd I mean, and some of it is things like the effects.
LeeSo the effects of the train and stuff, this is the year after Terminator 2 and that train looks like a toy, a kid's toy.
AdamAs far as I can tell, apart from green smoke and things like that, basically everything in it is practical.
LeeIt's all practical.
ChrisYeah.
AdamThey try to do as much in camera as possible.
AdamWhich is also why some of the, you know, floating for want of a better description whenever Mina and Dracula are together looks a bit,
Adamhey.
LeeYeah.
AdamOr like or the really weird way in which Jonathan Harker's picked up and put into the couch.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah, by the hand, yeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah, it's odd, it's just but not that's not to say that odd isn't in, you know, that's still interesting.
ChrisI I didn't find it the effects too bad.
ChrisI
Chrisit's got a the whole thing feels like it could be slightly quirky in that
Chrisyou know, in a way they're all going a bit mad, that kind of fits for me, so didn't I wasn't taken out too much by the effects with that in that regard.
LeeI think it is just the little things like it's all the stuff with the train and the eyes in the sky and that stuff I just didn't think I just thought looked.
ChrisI I quite liked those.
AdamSee, I think I think it's the I think it's the choice as well.
AdamBecause there's a part of me that feels that maybe Francis Ford Coppola was even going or or Coppola, was going, you know, almost wanted to make it look like an old old film.
AdamIf you see what I mean.
AdamHe it was deliberately like, no, I want to do I don't want to do it as a model shot.
Adam
AdamAnd then we'll sort of map on the eyes over the start and it's like, but weirdly at that point, unless I think now you would emphasize that.
LeeYeah.
AdamAs an aesthetic, it would be like,
AdamOh, they've decided to make it like it was made in 1930.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut I think at this point it was sort of like it's a weird sort of marriage.
AdamSo they're just sort of okayish.
AdamBut yeah, I think it's also,
AdamBecause I'm thinking about it, I think that was probably the thing is you we would have been like, like we'd have been 13.
Adam
AdamSo obviously, obviously had blood, obviously had boobs, you know, it was sort of a bit poly, a bit sort of,
ChrisI was surprised there was actually less of that than I expected.
ChrisI think that was made into a big thing.
AdamThey make it because I I remember reading just before we it was the blurb, I think, when we looked at it on because we had the recording off of Film 4 that we watched before we did the Muppets.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd it was like sort of like, you know, with the controversial eroticism for its time.
AdamAnd that's like, was there?
AdamAnd
AdamI and I realized that
Adamobviously as a 13-year-old, having a movie film.
AdamThis probably kept it top 10.
LeeYeah.
Adamfor at least another three years after I first saw it.
AdamYou know what I mean?
LeeThink think for me was, although I I liked horror and I liked horror aesthetic, I think I was hoping this was going to be more of a horror film and less of a
ChrisSo I
ChrisYeah.
ChrisAbsolutely. I was going to say, for me, this feels more like a tragedy with some nice horror elements.
ChrisBut there is definitely not that much horror.
ChrisWhich in a way, aside from all of the the what do you call it, Adam?
AdamSexy track.
ChrisYeah.
Chrisaside from the porn aspect, it's almost family-friendly in that regard.
LeeYeah.
LeeIt is.
LeeI mean, there's a few beheadings and stuff.
LeeSorry, I just realized Jennifer, so what was your,
Jenniferyou know, your What initially?
LeeYes.
JenniferYeah, well at the time, you know, any team goth girl, obviously, was you know, very keen on it.
JenniferAnd I think,
Jenniferyeah, like it's quite impressive for what they did and sticking more to the book, I think it's quite clever looking back at it.
JenniferAnd as you say, it probably was more love story, but again, I guess that's perhaps what the book was sort of trying to do in a way, wasn't it?
JenniferIt wasn't meant to be a horror as such.
JenniferIt was meant to be a sort of Gothic novel.
AdamOh no, because I think because the the thing of Mina being a reincarnation is not the book at all.
JenniferNo, no, no.
JenniferBut everything else, I mean, the whole like that sort of thing for me.
AdamWell, I I think it's just
Adamhe's a seducer.
Lee
AdamYou know, in whatever way that is meant, you know, it's sort of that's the characterization of it.
AdamSo it definitely is a romantic sort of.
JenniferYeah.
Adamelement that comes into it.
AdamWhen I was watching it actually, because because obviously Francis Ford Coppola was like, oh, we want to do the book.
Adam
AdamYou know, and the book's not been done properly.
AdamAnd I think there's an element there when it's like, yeah, but the reason the book's not been done properly.
Adamis because as a movie, you've got too many characters in there.
Jennifer
AdamThat's why they usually just have they usually combine the three suitors and sometimes just remove them completely and just have Jonathan.
LeeYeah.
AdamBecause I think that's sort of yeah, I'm making an hour and a half movie.
AdamI'm not doing a book.
AdamWhich is because the because the book is alway is made up of diary entries and letters and stuff like that.
AdamAnd it suddenly occurred to me, is that the only way you could do the book properly?
AdamIs you almost make
Adama series of smaller movies, so you do it from Mina's perspective, Jonathan's perspective, Dr. Steward and so on.
AdamLike all the people who contribute
Adamin the book.
AdamSo you almost have like a you know, almost like have a completely different aesthetic for each person's thing.
AdamI mean,
Adamit'd be disjointed as fuck and people would hate it.
AdamBut I think that's possibly,
Adamyou know, if you really want to do the book.
AdamBecause I mean, obviously then puts on
Adamthe Vlad the Impaler stuff at the start and again, that's not the book.
Lee
AdamNo.
AdamSo it's kind of it's a weird choice to then call it Bram Stoker's Dracula.
AdamEspecially because it's technically Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
JenniferTurning in his grave, would he?
LeeHe wasn't staked down.
AdamYeah.
Jennifer
JenniferYeah, no.
JenniferI think I think I would watch it again now, as in, I think like it's what is it, 30 years old, so I think like, you know, it's not bad, but,
JenniferI was saying, I'd only want to watch the Mark Gage's one again now because that to me was so much better.
LeeYeah.
Jenniferdone in a way, wasn't it? And Matt, I'm trying to remember what it was like.
JenniferBut was that almost like the three parts with different stories?
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeBecause they're basically,
JenniferYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah, because it was the John it was the Jonathan Harker section, then it was the voyage of the Demeter, which is very rarely.
JenniferYeah, done at all.
AdamYeah, done at all.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamI'm still not seen the film of that.
AdamYou did, didn't you, Lee, you said it wasn't all that though.
LeeIt wasn't great.
LeeNo.
Adamfair enough.
AdamYeah, it's a shame, because that that did seem like a good idea. I mean, I have to check it out at some point when I can, when it's just on or whatever.
Adam
AdamOh, excuse me.
AdamBut the and then, yeah, the last episode was the modern day update as it were, like sort of, you know, it was basically Dracula AD 1972.
AdamBut whatever it was, 2015, I think it was or something like that.
AdamYeah.
LeeBut But yeah, I mean,
Lee
Leewhen they
Jennifermany looks.
Leemany looks, all of his looks.
LeeWhen they get to the castle with that strange hair and the long flowing cloak.
LeeI thought that I liked his armor.
LeeLike that was a totally different new.
AdamYeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeI'd never seen anything that looked like that.
LeeI mean, it was very, a bit Armageddon.
Jennifera bit Armageddon.
LeeHe did look a bit like an Armageddon.
LeeBut yeah,
LeeI I thought all that was great.
Leeyeah,
JenniferYes.
Leeand the stuff that's from the book that was brought in like the ring's of blue fire and all that kind of stuff, all that was used slightly differently, yeah, it was nice to at least see it in there just as a.
LeeYeah, absolutely.
LeeAlmost an Easter egg or whatever to anyone who's read the book.
Leeand has not.
Lee
Lee
Leeyeah, seen that done before.
LeeSo I I did think it it did a lot more this time than I remembered thinking previously.
LeeBut.
AdamI think I I think it has managed to sort of have its own iconic nature.
AdamBecause
Adamthe older Dracula with the hair hair and the red cape and everything, that has that's the Dracula that gets taken from this film.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know, if people want to use that, I mean, obviously the Mr. Burns is dressed as it in the Simpsons at one point and so on and so forth.
AdamAnd it's that's it's always that look that is the iconic one that sort of come from it.
AdamAnd Lucy's sort of like once Lucy's vampirized and it's like her funeral gown.
LeeYeah.
AdamI've seen loads of people like use that look and stuff like that.
AdamThat's obviously really sort of taken.
AdamBut I I but also I think the the music.
Adam
Adamas well was weirdly admittedly it does also come from that time.
Adamwhere you can honestly say, yeah, everyone wants to sound like Batman.
JenniferYeah.
AdamIt's all variations on.
LeeDa da da da.
AdamBut
Jenniferhe was a Batman, he was a man.
ChrisIt's true.
AdamWell, yeah.
AdamHe's original man back.
AdamBut yeah.
AdamSo, Wojciech Kilar's
Adammusic he also did the Ninth Gate.
LeeOh, okay.
JenniferOh.
JenniferOh, that's good, yeah.
AdamYeah, and
Adam
Adamand didn't they reuse it in They used it in American Horror Story, I think.
Jennifer
AdamIn the first series of American Horror Story, I think this was like the music that accompanied the black Dahlia.
AdamDr. Murder bits.
AdamBecause they they reuse a lot of scores and things like that, they use Candyman and things.
AdamBut
Adamand then obviously at the end of it, you've got Annie Lennox's love song for a vampire.
LeeOh, see, that was on MTV.
LeeI probably saw that more than the film.
Leebecause they probably couldn't watch the film at the time, but we had MTV.
LeeSo that was just like probably made me like the film without watching the film.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt's also that lovely thing where it doesn't really fit with the film.
JenniferNo.
AdamIn a way, because it's like,
Adamwhat it's it's it's the 90s, how you sell a soundtrack album is you had a hit single on it.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd, you know, it's just it's just an Annie Lennox song.
AdamIt's a good song.
AdamI like it, but it's like sins and like crashing symbols and stuff like that.
Adamand you sort of.
AdamBut I hadn't there's a couple of things, music-based that I didn't know about.
AdamSo one of the things, because I was going, I remember going when it's the brides attacking Mina and Van Helsing, I loved all the sort of cackling and the weird shrieks and everything that was going on on there.
AdamAnd then in the end credits, I noticed that Demanda Gallas is there's a song of hers in here, but also apparently she I I looked it up and she was actually contributing to the sound design.
LeeOh, okay.
JenniferOh, clever.
AdamAnd she's like a she's a a singer, but she does the most extraordinary like operatic disturbing gothic weirdness and
Adamyeah, I've got I've got a few of her albums and she's like like a sort of
Adamactivist and composer and stuff like that.
AdamAnd so she does all those sort of weird bits.
AdamSo I was in a way, I was quite pleased, I was like,
AdamOh, this has obviously been resonating with me since.
LeeYeah.
AdamSince before I knew her.
AdamBecause I got introduced to her through the Netball Killers soundtrack a few years later.
Adam
AdamSo, but that point I was really, but but here's the one that got me.
AdamWhen he stabs the cross and screams, that's not Gary Oldman.
JenniferOh, it's not.
AdamNo.
AdamBecause apparently Gary Oldman couldn't quite nail it.
AdamI mean, I don't know if you guys watched those makings of, but
LeeYes.
JenniferI was laughing at his accent, bless him, he just sounds too sort of normal and.
AdamYeah.
AdamToo sweet.
AdamDoesn't he?
JenniferYeah.
ChrisIt it both takes away from the magic and also makes you realize how impressive they are when they're acting.
AdamBut I mean we we'll have to discuss how they do that weird make.
Adamhow they made it weirdly.
AdamBut before I forget,
Adamso Gary Oldman couldn't nail the scream.
AdamAt the suggestion of Sophia Coppola, Francis Ford Coppola's daughter, who's director and Oscar-winning screenwriter in her own right these days.
AdamShe suggested, why don't we get Lux Interior from the Cramps in?
JenniferOh!
AdamAnd that is who did the fucking scream.
LeeWow!
JenniferWas that an excuse because she liked the band or something.
AdamYeah.
AdamAbsolutely, yeah.
AdamShe was just a.
JenniferDad, can we get them in, please?
AdamYeah, Lux Interior, scream.
AdamYou feel amazing.
AdamSo, yeah.
AdamSo basically, yeah, so that's Lux Interior's scream, not Gary Oldman.
LeeNice.
AdamBut you can see from the making of that there's a lot of headbanging going on.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt's a weird.
LeeYeah.
AdamYes.
AdamBut also the fact that that always fascinated me that sort of France.
AdamBecause in a weird way, I watched this making of and that I didn't appreciate at the time.
AdamHow fucking unusual a setup it was, where it was like,
AdamCome to my house.
AdamThis is Coppola, come to my house.
AdamLive here.
AdamI'll just put you up bed and bored, we'll fuck around, do drama games.
AdamRehearse on a sort of half built sound stage of what you you know, so you can really work it through and give it that sort of rehearsal time that you'd normally get for like a play or something.
LeeYeah.
Adam
AdamYou know.
AdamBut and then we'll go off and do the fucking film.
AdamAnd you're like, that is incredible.
LeeYeah.
LeeThat is that's such a revolutionary way of doing it.
LeeIt's
LeeBut I mean it does pay off.
LeeI think and I think that's why this film does have its own cult.
Leefollowing the way it does.
LeeSo,
Leewhen we as I say Adam shared some links when we've watched some some other shots and stuff.
LeeAnd one of them was the South Bank show talking about Dracula.
AdamOh, yeah.
Leeand they showed you then the Dracula experience at Whitby, as it then was.
LeeSo we went a few years ago, two, maybe three years ago, and that is now basically just entirely the Francis Ford Coppola.
LeeOne.
AdamOh,
Adamreally.
LeeThe Dracula experience is just the Bram Stoker's Dracula experience.
AdamOh, okay.
JenniferYeah, it's few other bits in there, but.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah, it's very purely the aesthetic of it and everything.
AdamI wonder if it was a link up.
Adamfrom both being in the South Bank show, because that South Bank show's kind of a,
Adamhalf promo, that came on that was just the South Bank show were doing Dracula.
AdamCoincidentally, at the time that Dracula's on at the cinema, and we've got loads of behind the scenes bits talking to the people.
AdamWe did Dracula.
AdamIt was kind of half and half.
AdamYou know,
LeeYeah.
AdamBut
Adamno, that's really interesting, maybe they just, you know, there was a connection forced there.
AdamSo they were like.
JenniferThey gave the ghost what they wanted.
JenniferThey were like, we know which Dracula they want, let's not pretend.
Jennifer
Lee
Leeyoung romantic goth.
LeeRight, rather than full-on horror fans.
JenniferYeah.
LeeYeah, I think so.
LeeSo yeah,
Leeit does feel more with it.
LeeSorry.
AdamBecause there's also that because the 90s is a weird.
Adamsort of period in terms of horror.
AdamAnd certainly, like this sort of seemed to be part of a trend of,
Adamwell, we're going to do a horror. It's not not absolutely a horror.
Lee
AdamYou know, it's almost like we'll sneak it in by putting in romance.
Adamor, you know, it's or sort of it's like, look, it's not really horror, so normal people could come and see it.
AdamIt's okay.
AdamAnd.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut you also got because there was but it's this sort of weird thing of you Kenneth Branagh did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
AdamMary Shelley's Frankenstein.
AdamWhich again is kind of I find it similar to this.
AdamI mean, I haven't seen it for bloody.
Adamyears and years and years, but.
AdamI find it similar to this because as I remember, it's like, we're doing the book.
AdamOh, except for those bits that we're not doing from the book.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd.
AdamBut when they, you know, you've slapped the author's name on it, you're pretty, you're making a statement that there.
AdamBut there was also a weird one where it was like and this sounds like a fever dream, I'm sure it's not, but I'm sure there was a Jekyl and Hyde, but it was all told from the perspective of the made who was Julia Roberts.
LeeThat's a weird dream of yours.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd it was.
AdamNo, but that's a.
AdamDo you know what I mean?
AdamIt's like.
AdamSo they would have all these sort of like, no, no, we can be high brow about it.
AdamYou know, we can, you know.
AdamHorror is a literary genre.
Adam
AdamThey did seem to want to do them as as movies all of this point.
ChrisI suppose, yeah.
ChrisThey were trying to make these as big as possible.
LeeYeah.
JenniferThey want to draw people.
ChrisYeah.
LeeAnd I think that's that's that.
LeeThat goes so much in the casting choices.
LeeIt was just who's famous at the time, just bang them all in the same film together.
Leeand it's it's bound to.
ChrisOh,
ChrisI didn't mind Winona Ryder in this.
ChrisSo either I was totally not seeing the things that both of you saw.
Chrisor which she's all right, but she's all right.
JenniferShe's all right.
AdamI think she's.
AdamLet's face it, Keanu saves a lot of people because the poor can be the scapegoat.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou know, but sort of if if if they had got if you'd have had Richard E Grant playing Jonathan Harker, you know, because I think he could do the trauma side of it, you know, better.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd actually,
Adamthe other idea I had was because I I watching all the making of and everything else like that, I just get the impression that Gary Oldman was it was never a part that they suggested to him to play.
AdamIt wasn't like a part that he was fighting for or something that he had wanted to play.
AdamBut weirdly enough, Francis Ford Coppola would have had in his phone book, imagine phoning Nicholas Cage and saying, do you want to play Dracula, boy?
AdamBecause I don't think Nicholas Cage would have played it any differently to how he does it in Renfield.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd weirdly enough, I think that would work on both versions.
LeeYeah.
AdamI think he would work in the in the serious context as he would have worked in the other.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeAgain, that was another one, I'm surprised that much I enjoyed Renfield.
LeeI could think I could go back and give that another rewatch again soon.
JenniferThat was good fun.
LeeYeah.
Lee
LeeBut yeah, I I I think I think is there are so many the other reason I don't come back to this very often.
LeeI've only seen it a handful of times.
LeeI think there are a lot of other versions, because as we said, there are so many out there.
Lee
Leeyeah, and I'm never really in the romantic mood. I like I want the horror violence or I want the black and white.
Leeor I want that very British feel, or whatever.
LeeAnd so this one just never comes to the four as if I'm going to watch a Dracula film.
LeeThis one isn't going to be, as you said, Adam, it's not going to be in my top five, but actually, yeah, it's it's choice of Dracula.
Jennifermight make it top 10. Does not make it top five.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah, I mean, I I think everyone involved could not help but make a good film.
AdamJust it's just not the best of Dracula Dracula films, really.
AdamThat's the thing.
LeeBut yeah.
LeePleasant surprise, really.
LeeSo you glad we finally covered it.
JenniferYeah, glad we finally covered it.
JenniferYes, because, you know, feel like we should do.
JenniferShould go there.
JenniferI mean, how many Dracula have we covered now?
JenniferHave you got a sort of list of,
AdamI'll have a check.
AdamI think we've about three.
JenniferPut the.
JenniferPut the numbers up on, you know, Instagram and, you know.
AdamI'll have a check.
AdamBut yeah, I think I think we've only done three actual Dracula films.
JenniferYeah, okay.
JenniferFair enough.
AdamOh no, four, Abbott and Costello meet Frank.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamOh.
JenniferOh.
AdamYeah.
JenniferSo has everyone got a favorite Dracula film then?
JenniferThat they can just name off.
ChrisDid we actually
Chriscover the Nosferatu remake.
ChrisI can't remember if we actually covered it or not.
AdamNo, we talked about it on a we have been watching.
Adambecause I think two of us had seen it at that point, but the other.
ChrisOh, okay.
Adamhaven't.
AdamAnd also,
Adamit also if we're going down that route, I'd love us to do the Werner Herzog.
AdamNosferatu.
AdamJust so I can, it's got the best Renfield.
LeeYeah.
AdamClare is an absolute devotee of Roland Topper's Renfield.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah, he's just astounding in it.
AdamSo,
LeeBut there's.
LeeI'll tell you what there's.
LeeWeirdly enough, there's a BBC one with Louis Jordan, which is really good.
LeeWhich is much more.
Leethe idea of doing the book.
Leeessentially.
LeeI've got that on DVD and I've tried started watching it, I think I got about halfway through and then planning to finish it at a later date and never did and just forgot it was on the shelf.
LeeBut.
Lee
Leeyeah, I I would quite like because it is actually shot in Whitby and stuff.
LeeSo it's quite
LeeYeah.
LeeSo it's got all of that going for it. So yeah, I would quite like to go back and give that another go perhaps.
LeeBut
LeeYeah.
LeeNot great example.
AdamActually, the ultimate, the ultimate one is the radio adaptation from 1991. That's perfect. It's exactly the book, it's done. And Frederick Jagger is Dracula and
AdamOh, I can't remember a bloody name now, but yeah, I I don't think it's it's mostly it's mostly Felicity Logan.
AdamThat's it, that's what I'm thinking of, Felicity Logan's Meana.
Adamyeah, and lots of voice voice people.
LeeYes.
AdamHe's all voices.
LeeYes.
LeeYes.
LeeBut I've got to say,
AdamThat's that's the thing, makes it you sort of just yeah.
LeeBut I say having rewatched Bram Stoker's Dracula, I still stand by every choice I made for my Muppets recasting.
JenniferOh yeah.
JenniferI think the Muppets would definitely be better still.
LeeYeah.
AdamAbsolutely.
ChrisYes.
ChrisWell, well, I'm still on the honeymoon period for this one.
ChrisSo we'll review this again in another 10 years and see if it's gone downhill or or up.
AdamYeah.
Lee
LeeYes, so very quickly.
LeeHaving,
Leewe've got some news.
Leewe are going to be taking a regular yearly break that we do.
LeeWe don't always have it in the same month.
LeeSo this episode will be dropping on the 3rd of January, I think, no, no.
LeeIt'll be dropping on the 4th of January.
LeeIt's the Sunday.
Leeand then you will not hear from us again until the 1st of February.
Leewe've got stuff going on.
LeeSo we're all going to be very busy.
Leebut.
Leewe will be returning as long as everything aligns as it should.
LeeWe'll be returning on the 1st of February.
LeeWith our horror on sea episode that we do.
JenniferEveryone.
Jennifershould go and see horror on sea because this will come out in enough time that people can get a ticket horror on sea at Southend. It is a super festival, two weekends of all of the.
JenniferWhat do we call them?
LeePretend horror films.
Jenniferwhat are they called?
LeeThey call it.
JenniferNo, they called independent, thank you.
JenniferIndie horror.
ChrisIndie.
JenniferWhich I'm getting more and more keen on.
ChrisI think the more.
ChrisWe've seen some of the best films we've ever seen here.
LeeAbsolutely.
LeeShe still keeps calling it.
JenniferNo, I can't remember what they call it.
JenniferIndie makes it easy.
ChrisIt's.
ChrisIt's an endearing mocking.
AdamI love the idea of the number of people you've wound up so.
JenniferI'm not being rude.
AdamYeah.
JenniferWe're trying not trying to be.
Lee
JenniferBut yeah, Indie's just like, you know, dodgy bands.
JenniferYeah, I love them. They're good people now.
AdamYeah.
Leeyeah, so it's a horror.
LeeYeah.
LeeSo,
Leewe'll be back for that.
Leealso Ghost story for Christmas, we've just watched, but a lot of people haven't watched it yet, so.
JenniferOh.
LeeOh.
LeeWe will be covering that at a later date.
LeeBecause obviously we don't want to spoil it for anyone who's been too busy over the festive period.
JenniferHas everyone here.
Jenniferwatched it?
AdamYes.
LeeChris is shaking his head.
Leeyeah, so we couldn't discuss it anyway.
Lee
LeeBut yes, so if you haven't seen it, I do because we will be discussing it.
Lee
AdamI think I think most of when we do we have been watching, I think most of it will be ghost stories for Christmas.
AdamYeah.
Adamthat have been there was a bumper crop this year and it's quite quite lovely.
LeeYeah.
LeeNice.
LeeOh, yeah, definitely.
LeeAnd and the guys from Broken Vale came back and gave us another very good Ghost Story for Christmas radio show that was absolutely brilliant.
LeeAn individual like a standalone episode that Adam posted about.
JenniferOh, yeah.
LeeTond for anyone who's looking for it. Yeah, so go on Spotify, look up Tond or Broken Vale.
LeeAnd it is sinister as all hell, it's fantastic.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd there was the new Haunted season episode on Shutter.
LeeYes.
Adamagain, yeah.
AdamJust so many.
AdamYeah, lots of lots of goodies.
LeeYes.
LeeSo, go and check out all of those, have a lovely January.
Leewe hope you all had a great Christmas and New Year.
LeeAnd we will see you on the 1st of February to discuss Horror on C.
LeeGood night.
AdamGood night.
ChrisGood night.
