Bram Stoker's Dracula
00:38:27
About
Following our Muppet version of the film, and in the spirit of not doing too much work over Crimbo, we’re looking at “Bram Stoker’s Dracula”. A film in which Ted goes on a less than excellent adventure; Withnail keeps Tom Waits on a remarkably protein-rich diet; and Hannibal Lecter clearly cannot be arsed having just won an Oscar. Unleashed with much fanfare in 1992, director Francis Ford Coppola wanted to bring to the screen a definitive version of Stoker’s novel (except for all the extra bits he bunged in for good measure). This ambition weirdly highlights some of the pitfalls of a faithful adaptation, with a number of characters usually dispensed with or amalgamated in other versions left to clutter up the narrative. It features what is a genuinely stellar cast both for now and then, but with some actors not necessarily suited to their roles. However, it’s still Coppola, so it still remains a well-made, beautifully shot gothic romance; which certainly equals the novel for pace and drama, and even adds some iconic imagery to the old myth which is still appearing over 30 years after the film’s release.
I have crossed oceans of time to find you.
Famous lines
- "Love never dies."
- "For the dead travel fast." — Girl in carriage
- "The blood is the life!" — R.M. Renfield
Quotes verified against Wikiquote.
Adam's research
Verbatim lifts from Adam's own words in the episode. Click a timestamp to hear him say it.
- Film's unique 'making of' video release strategy
But I also had the thing that I sent you that's on YouTube, which was they it's the weirdest thing I was explaining it to Clare and she found it insane. Was that, so, the film came out at the cinema, but obviously wasn't going to come out probably a good six months to a year on rental. So, the only way obviously I saw it by a pirate. But what they would do, and they I think they did it for a few films, but this is the only one I really remember it with. They released the making of as like a little 25-minute video. Like almost like how they did Thriller. Where the video was the making of Thriller, but you still had Thriller at the end of it. But it meant that you weren't just buying a music video, but you got the long form music video and all the back story on it and everything else like that. So they released this video, Sarah bought it, and so we were just watching it, because obviously it's got clips from the film in there. But also it was like sort of it was basically, I think what it would be called now is um, like um, a video press kit. It was like what they'd send out to people for as part of the sort of promotion of the film and the buff and to TV stations they might show it. Uh, like America has a lot more, had a lot more channels then, so they had a lot more entertainment news and things like that. So it was the sort of thing that would crop up like, I remember I had on video somewhere a making of Batman Returns, same sort of thing, 25 minutes, a few talking heads, a few clips, and that was it. And, but, so that in my head was kind of an integral part of it. And I became fascinated with how they sort of Coppola's process of how he made the film.
- History and adaptations of Dracula films
Oh, there's there's so many and Universal span them off, um, into sort of team-ups and Because weirdly enough, Bella Lugosi only played him twice. But then obviously he had Hammer who also would do like Hammer House of Horror. … Yeah. … He's basically the Count von Count. Um, you know, that's that's why it's still the accent and the cape and the medallion is all Bella Lugosi. And it still sort of retains now. Hm. But yeah, over the years, loads of people have done adaptations of it. When when Universal made the first one, they made the Spanish one at the same time. So that's two made exactly the same point. And um, yeah, so there's a lot there's lots out there.
- Film's controversial eroticism and rating
But yeah, I think it's also, Because I'm thinking about it, I think that was probably the thing is you we would have been like, like we'd have been 13. Hm. So obviously, obviously had blood, obviously had boobs, you know, it was sort of a bit poly, a bit sort of, … They make it because I I remember reading just before we it was the blurb, I think, when we looked at it on because we had the recording off of Film 4 that we watched before we did the Muppets. And it was like sort of like, you know, uh, with the controversial eroticism for its time. And that's like, was there? And I and I realized that obviously as a 13-year-old, having a movie film. This probably kept it top 10. for at least another three years after I first saw it. You know what I mean?
- Film's deviation from and challenges of adapting the original book
Well, I I think it's just he's a seducer. You know, in whatever way that is meant, you know, it's sort of that's the characterization of it. So it definitely is a romantic sort of. element that comes into it. When I was watching it actually, because because obviously Francis Ford Coppola was like, oh, um, we want to do the book. Hm. You know, and the book's not been done properly. And I think there's an element there when it's like, yeah, but the reason the book's not been done properly. is because as a movie, you've got too many characters in there. That's why they usually just have they usually combine the three suitors and sometimes just remove them completely and just have Jonathan. Because I think that's sort of yeah, I'm making an hour and a half movie. I'm not doing a book. Which is because the because the book is alway is made up of diary entries and letters and stuff like that. And it suddenly occurred to me, is that the only way you could do the book properly? Is you almost make a series of smaller movies, so you do it from Mina's perspective, um, Jonathan's perspective, uh, Dr. Steward and so on. Like all the people who contribute in the book. So you almost have like a you know, almost like have a completely different aesthetic for each person's thing. I mean, it'd be disjointed as fuck and people would hate it. But I think that's possibly, you know, if you really want to do the book. Because I mean, obviously then puts on the Vlad the Impaler stuff at the start and again, that's not the book. No. So it's kind of it's a weird choice to then call it Bram Stoker's Dracula. Especially because it's technically Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
- Iconic visual designs and cultural impact
I think I I think it has managed to sort of have its own iconic nature. Because the older Dracula with the hair hair and the red cape and everything, that has that's the Dracula that gets taken from this film. You know, if people want to use that, I mean, obviously the Mr. Burns is dressed as it in the Simpsons at one point and so on and so forth. And it's that's it's always that look that is the iconic one that sort of come from it. And Lucy's um sort of like once Lucy's vampirized and it's like her funeral gown. I've seen loads of people like uh use that look and stuff like that. That's obviously really sort of taken.
- Film score composer and reuse in other media
and didn't they reuse it in They used it in American Horror Story, I think. In the first series of American Horror Story, I think this was like the music that accompanied the black Dahlia. Dr. Murder bits. Because they they reuse a lot of scores and things like that, they use Candyman and things. But um, and then obviously at the end of it, you've got Annie Lennox's love song for a vampire.
- Demanda Gallas's contribution to sound design
But I hadn't there's a couple of things, music-based that I didn't know about. So one of the things, because I was going, I remember going when it's the brides attacking Mina and Van Helsing, I loved all the sort of cackling and the weird shrieks and everything that was going on on there. And then in the end credits, I noticed that um Demanda Gallas is uh there's a song of hers in here, but also apparently she I I looked it up and she was actually contributing to the sound design. And she's like a um, uh, she's a a singer, but she does the most extraordinary like operatic disturbing gothic weirdness and um, yeah, I've got I've got a few of her albums and she's like like a sort of um, activist and uh composer and stuff like that. And so she does all those sort of weird bits. So I was in a way, I was quite pleased, I was like, Oh, this has obviously been resonating with me since. Since before I knew her. Because I got introduced to her through the Netball Killers soundtrack a few years later. Hm. So, but that point I was really, but but here's the one that got me.
- Lux Interior performed Dracula's scream
When he stabs the cross and screams, that's not Gary Oldman. No. Because apparently Gary Oldman couldn't quite nail it. I mean, I don't know if you guys watched those makings of, but … Yeah. Too sweet. Doesn't he? … But I mean we we'll have to discuss how they do that weird make. how they made it weirdly. But before I forget, so Gary Oldman couldn't nail the scream. At the suggestion of Sophia Coppola, uh, Francis Ford Coppola's daughter, who's director and Oscar-winning screenwriter in her own right these days. She suggested, why don't we get Lux Interior from the Cramps in? And that is who did the fucking scream. … Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. She was just a. Yeah, Lux Interior, scream. You feel amazing. So, yeah. So basically, yeah, so that's Lux Interior's scream, not Gary Oldman.
- Coppola's unique rehearsal process
But you can see from the making of that there's a lot of headbanging going on. It's a weird. Yes. But also the fact that that always fascinated me that sort of France. Because in a weird way, I watched this making of and that I didn't appreciate at the time. How fucking unusual a setup it was, where it was like, Come to my house. This is Coppola, come to my house. Live here. I'll just put you up bed and bored, we'll fuck around, do drama games. Rehearse on a sort of half built sound stage of what you you know, so you can really work it through and give it that sort of rehearsal time that you'd normally get for like a play or something. Hm. You know. But and then we'll go off and do the fucking film. And you're like, that is incredible.
- 90s trend of 'high brow' horror adaptations
Because there's also that because the 90s is a weird. sort of period in terms of horror. And certainly, like this sort of seemed to be part of a trend of, well, we're going to do a horror. It's not not absolutely a horror. You know, it's almost like we'll sneak it in by putting in romance. or, you know, it's or sort of it's like, look, it's not really horror, so normal people could come and see it. It's okay. And. Yeah. But you also got because there was um, but it's this sort of weird thing of you Kenneth Branagh did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Which again is kind of I find it similar to this. I mean, I haven't seen it for bloody. years and years and years, but. I find it similar to this because as I remember, it's like, we're doing the book. Oh, except for those bits that we're not doing from the book. You know. And. But when they, you know, you've slapped the author's name on it, you're pretty, you're making a statement that there. But there was also a weird one where it was like and this sounds like a fever dream, I'm sure it's not, but I'm sure there was a Jekyl and Hyde, but it was all told from the perspective of the made who was Julia Roberts. Yeah. And it was. No, but that's a. Do you know what I mean? It's like. So they would have all these sort of like, no, no, we can be high brow about it. You know, we can, you know. Horror is a literary genre. They did seem to want to do them as as movies all of this point.
Highlights
Transcript
Show full transcript
Lee Good evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
Chris I'm Chris.
Adam I'm Adam.
Jennifer I'm Jennifer.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yay!
Lee Jennifer has returned as you can hear from our poor recording quality.
Jennifer Hey!
Lee Well, no, it's not no.
Lee I don't what I mean is I'm not upstairs in the room with the microphone. I'm just on the webcam and the my isn't as good.
Adam rubbishing you.
Jennifer
Adam He's he's not got he's not got his professional with pop shield.
Chris yeah.
Adam He can do.
Unknown Hello late night callers.
Chris And it's not rubbishing you yet, but we'll see by the end of the episode.
Lee Well,
Lee yeah, so as promised, we're back this evening following our Muppets Bram Stoker's Dracula episode. We are covering Bram Stoker's Dracula, which yeah,
Lee I still can't believe we haven't covered, but
Jennifer He wouldn't let me.
Lee Not true.
Chris And probably the right way around, maybe.
Lee Yes.
Lee But yeah, so I've had a bit of a different time with this film yet again, but we'll get into that in a bit.
Lee So both of you had seen this film previously.
Lee What's your history with it, Chris?
Chris I knew all about it.
Chris I knew that some people liked it.
Chris I knew that Jennifer liked it a lot, that probably made me think, you know, I don't need to watch that, really, do I?
Chris It's probably not that good.
Chris Turns out I was wrong.
Chris I'll let her off.
Jennifer Hey!
Chris I'm sure, I'm sure that's been the case for a few other films.
Chris I've never seen Legends of the Fall, but let's not go too far down that road because
Jennifer Yeah.
Adam We were doing this on this podcast show.
Chris No, this is not.
Jennifer Except it's probably not a good film, it just had Brad Pitt in it, apparently.
Chris well,
Chris I'll I'll also let you have that after I've seen some of his great films, but anyway, let's let's go back to Bram Stoker's Dracula. Having watched it for the Muppets, I definitely should have watched it many years ago, because it's exactly the sort of film I like.
Chris
Chris And having seen some of these makings of.
Adam Oh, yeah.
Chris They've added a they've added a few little extra flavors for me to think, yeah, I like what they did there.
Lee
Lee and how about you, Adam, what's your history with this?
Adam Well, it came out.
Adam Obviously, it was a Dracula film, it was Gary Oldman, it was Francis Ford Coppola, Winona Ryder, Sadie Frost, Anthony Hopkins.
Adam It was Keanu Reeves. You can't No, I don't think Keanu Reeves was a selling point at that point.
Adam And certainly wasn't a selling point much long after.
Adam It's only in recent years that I have truly begun to appreciate that that man is a Christ who walks among us.
Lee Yes.
Adam I like He is just a decent fucking human being.
Chris Also, he may not be the best actor,
Chris but I actually still He's not the worst.
Chris He doesn't put me off.
Chris He doesn't put me off any film that he's in.
Chris I don't think I'm not watching that because this is bad.
Chris Like somehow he slots in and it's it's good.
Adam Yes.
Adam perfectly fine.
Adam And like I say, I think that the fact that he appears to be I mean, this is this is me tipping the scales here.
Adam There'll be some controversy comes out now.
Adam But no, but seriously, it just seems like a decent human being.
Adam And that seems which is not something I can say for even actors I like.
Lee Yeah.
Adam really.
Adam So,
Adam you know, Or or many humans, really.
Chris Yeah.
Adam Exactly.
Adam You know, he so, yeah.
Adam He definitely wins on that scale now.
Chris Yeah.
Adam So, I think at the time I was kind of just I was caught up in the hype a bit.
Adam And I enjoyed it.
Adam I actually, I mean, I had a pirate version of it.
Adam
Adam Sarah did, but massive Gary Oldman fan as well, massive Dracula fan, so she she went and saw it.
Adam I assume I was too young.
Adam Possibly.
Adam What have been in '92, because I don't think this was an 18.
Adam It might have been a 15.
Lee Yeah, so we were coupled here shy, I think of the
Adam Yeah, so, so she saw it in the cinema, but my mate, had a pirate VHS of it.
Adam Which I can only describe in one word, red.
Lee
Adam Yeah.
Adam Seriously, even watching it now, it doesn't work the same.
Adam I saw like a fantasmagoric Dario Argento lit version of this.
Adam Everything was light, like light punching you in the eyes.
Adam Just everything was so like fucking vivid.
Chris That must have been good for the blood at the start.
Adam Oh, it it worked brilliantly.
Adam But like I say, I mean, the the main palette of this film in my head is just red.
Adam Because that's, you know, it's it was the overriding quality of it.
Adam But I also had the thing that I sent you that's on YouTube, which was they
Adam it's the weirdest thing I was explaining it to Clare and she found it insane.
Adam Was that, so, the film came out at the cinema, but obviously wasn't going to come out probably a good six months to a year on rental.
Lee Yeah.
Adam So, the only way obviously I saw it by a pirate.
Adam But what they would do, and they I think they did it for a few films, but this is the only one I really remember it with.
Adam They released the making of as like a little 25-minute video.
Lee Okay.
Chris
Adam Like almost like how they did Thriller.
Adam Where the video was the making of Thriller, but you still had Thriller at the end of it.
Adam But it meant that you weren't just buying a music video, but you got the long form music video and all the back story on it and everything else like that.
Adam So they released this video, Sarah bought it, and so we were just watching it, because obviously it's got clips from the film in there.
Adam But also it was like sort of it was basically, I think what it would be called now is like a video press kit.
Lee Yeah.
Adam It was like what they'd send out to people for as part of the sort of promotion of the film and the buff and to TV stations they might show it. like America has a lot more, had a lot more channels then, so they had a lot more entertainment news and things like that.
Adam So it was the sort of thing that would crop up like, I remember I had on video somewhere a making of Batman Returns, same sort of thing, 25 minutes, a few talking heads, a few clips, and that was it.
Adam And, but, so that in my head was kind of an integral part of it.
Adam And I became fascinated with how they sort of Coppola's process of how he made the film.
Adam But also I have gradually just really I just gradually fell out of love with it.
Adam I don't think it's that good a film.
Adam You know, that's that's I've so it's one that at the time I enjoyed, the more I watch it.
Adam And certainly, I think also weirdly enough, I think it's one of those things where actually as a big Dracula fan.
Adam I don't think it is, you know.
Adam It's not certainly not top five, if top 10. No.
Chris So, so one of the things that I I noted from the making of, that there are about 200.
Chris Dracula films.
Adam Oh, there's there's so many and Universal span them off, into sort of team-ups and
Adam Because weirdly enough, Bella Lugosi only played him twice.
Adam But then obviously he had Hammer who also would do like Hammer House of Horror.
Chris I thought she was very iconic, he kind of set the standard.
Adam Yeah.
Adam He's basically the Count von Count.
Adam you know, that's that's why it's still the accent and the cape and the medallion is all Bella Lugosi.
Adam And it still sort of retains now.
Adam
Adam But yeah, over the years, loads of people have done adaptations of it.
Adam When when Universal made the first one, they made the Spanish one at the same time.
Adam So that's two made exactly the same point.
Chris Yeah.
Adam And yeah, so there's a lot there's lots out there.
Adam But yeah, I just think and I think also going back to it now, I'm a bit just like again.
Adam I love everyone in this, but I don't love everyone in this.
Lee Yeah.
Jennifer Yeah.
Adam You know, it's like they're all great people.
Adam But I mean,
Adam like for a start, Anthony Hopkins just feels like
Chris Oh,
Chris it has to be one of his one of his, yeah,
Adam worst.
Adam It's sort of just he just don't seem to I don't think I think I don't think he gives a fuck.
Adam I think I think maybe Gary Oldman gives too much of a fuck.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Keanu's miscast, Winona's miscast,
Adam Sadie Frost is great, but I think that the the whole point with Lucy is that she becomes weird and sort of lusty and sexy once Dracula's involved.
Adam Whereas this version sort of is a bit more,
Adam She's kind of already there, you know.
Adam And sort of, you know, because the whole point is kind of like Dracula turns up and then she stops being Victorian repressed femininity and starts to You did have three suitors at the start, Adam, so
Jennifer You did have three suitors at the start, there.
Adam Exactly, I mean, there's still that sort of element there, definitely.
Adam But
Adam So, yeah, and I just think that's sort of,
Adam it Renfield's fucking great.
Adam You know.
Adam Tom Waits is Renfield's great.
Adam Richard E Grant's brilliant because it's Richard E Grant and around the time when Richard E Grant just could turn up and be brilliant immediately.
Adam And
Adam yeah, it's sort of so,
Adam but yeah, and and it's obviously Francis Ford Coppola, it's like fucking, you know, got the Godfather and Apocalypse Now.
Adam These are,
Adam you know, and then it's like, and he wants to do Dracula.
Adam And he does it and the music's fantastic.
Adam The the sets and everything else like that, the makeup's great.
Adam But I just, yeah, it's just sort of gone a bit,
Adam for me, as a film.
Adam You know,
Lee See, I so having checked, yeah, so it was an 18, yeah, so we would have been 13 when we came out.
Lee So we wouldn't have got into the cinema to see it.
Lee
Lee So I when this film first came out and I got it on VHS, I so I think I rented it to begin with and then when it came out to buy, I bought it and watched it a few times and really enjoyed it.
Lee
Lee and then I didn't watch it for years and then I went back and watched it again probably in my early 20s.
Lee And was like, what did I like about this?
Lee It's all.
Adam Yeah, it's awful.
Lee And then I left it a number of years and went back to it maybe 10 years later.
Lee I watched it again.
Lee And was like, oh, it's not as bad as I thought.
Lee It's just the casting, as we say, you know, apart from Tom Waits, Gary Oldman.
Lee
Lee it just it's not yeah, everybody's just wrong in it.
Lee Which isn't their fault, they've just been put in the wrong place.
Adam No, they haven't.
Lee So.
Lee But yeah, having gone back and watched it today with this, this is going to be a slog.
Lee
Lee I actually enjoyed it more than I thought I was going to.
Lee I think it's got I think it's got more positive things about it than I remember.
Lee And I think that poor casting has set me so against it.
Lee And on which is why yeah, when Jennifer said, oh, I want to cover a film.
Lee and gave three options for a birthday choice, I was like, well, we're not watching that pile of garbage.
Lee
Lee But yeah, but actually going back and watch it, I was like, it has got a lot of redeeming features.
Lee And I think it's I don't think it's a terribly made film.
Adam No.
Lee It's it's just.
Lee And I mean, and some of it is things like the effects.
Lee So the effects of the train and stuff, this is the year after Terminator 2 and that train looks like a toy, a kid's toy.
Adam As far as I can tell, apart from green smoke and things like that, basically everything in it is practical.
Lee It's all practical.
Chris Yeah.
Adam They try to do as much in camera as possible.
Adam Which is also why some of the, you know, floating for want of a better description whenever Mina and Dracula are together looks a bit,
Adam hey.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Or like or the really weird way in which Jonathan Harker's picked up and put into the couch.
Lee Yeah.
Chris Yeah, by the hand, yeah.
Chris Yeah.
Adam Yeah, it's odd, it's just but not that's not to say that odd isn't in, you know, that's still interesting.
Chris I I didn't find it the effects too bad.
Chris I
Chris it's got a the whole thing feels like it could be slightly quirky in that
Chris you know, in a way they're all going a bit mad, that kind of fits for me, so didn't I wasn't taken out too much by the effects with that in that regard.
Lee I think it is just the little things like it's all the stuff with the train and the eyes in the sky and that stuff I just didn't think I just thought looked.
Chris I I quite liked those.
Adam See, I think I think it's the I think it's the choice as well.
Adam Because there's a part of me that feels that maybe Francis Ford Coppola was even going or or Coppola, was going, you know, almost wanted to make it look like an old old film.
Adam If you see what I mean.
Adam He it was deliberately like, no, I want to do I don't want to do it as a model shot.
Adam
Adam And then we'll sort of map on the eyes over the start and it's like, but weirdly at that point, unless I think now you would emphasize that.
Lee Yeah.
Adam As an aesthetic, it would be like,
Adam Oh, they've decided to make it like it was made in 1930.
Lee Yeah.
Adam But I think at this point it was sort of like it's a weird sort of marriage.
Adam So they're just sort of okayish.
Adam But yeah, I think it's also,
Adam Because I'm thinking about it, I think that was probably the thing is you we would have been like, like we'd have been 13.
Adam
Adam So obviously, obviously had blood, obviously had boobs, you know, it was sort of a bit poly, a bit sort of,
Chris I was surprised there was actually less of that than I expected.
Chris I think that was made into a big thing.
Adam They make it because I I remember reading just before we it was the blurb, I think, when we looked at it on because we had the recording off of Film 4 that we watched before we did the Muppets.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And it was like sort of like, you know, with the controversial eroticism for its time.
Adam And that's like, was there?
Adam And
Adam I and I realized that
Adam obviously as a 13-year-old, having a movie film.
Adam This probably kept it top 10.
Lee Yeah.
Adam for at least another three years after I first saw it.
Adam You know what I mean?
Lee Think think for me was, although I I liked horror and I liked horror aesthetic, I think I was hoping this was going to be more of a horror film and less of a
Chris So I
Chris Yeah.
Chris Absolutely. I was going to say, for me, this feels more like a tragedy with some nice horror elements.
Chris But there is definitely not that much horror.
Chris Which in a way, aside from all of the the what do you call it, Adam?
Adam Sexy track.
Chris Yeah.
Chris aside from the porn aspect, it's almost family-friendly in that regard.
Lee Yeah.
Lee It is.
Lee I mean, there's a few beheadings and stuff.
Lee Sorry, I just realized Jennifer, so what was your,
Jennifer you know, your What initially?
Lee Yes.
Jennifer Yeah, well at the time, you know, any team goth girl, obviously, was you know, very keen on it.
Jennifer And I think,
Jennifer yeah, like it's quite impressive for what they did and sticking more to the book, I think it's quite clever looking back at it.
Jennifer And as you say, it probably was more love story, but again, I guess that's perhaps what the book was sort of trying to do in a way, wasn't it?
Jennifer It wasn't meant to be a horror as such.
Jennifer It was meant to be a sort of Gothic novel.
Adam Oh no, because I think because the the thing of Mina being a reincarnation is not the book at all.
Jennifer No, no, no.
Jennifer But everything else, I mean, the whole like that sort of thing for me.
Adam Well, I I think it's just
Adam he's a seducer.
Lee
Adam You know, in whatever way that is meant, you know, it's sort of that's the characterization of it.
Adam So it definitely is a romantic sort of.
Jennifer Yeah.
Adam element that comes into it.
Adam When I was watching it actually, because because obviously Francis Ford Coppola was like, oh, we want to do the book.
Adam
Adam You know, and the book's not been done properly.
Adam And I think there's an element there when it's like, yeah, but the reason the book's not been done properly.
Adam is because as a movie, you've got too many characters in there.
Jennifer
Adam That's why they usually just have they usually combine the three suitors and sometimes just remove them completely and just have Jonathan.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Because I think that's sort of yeah, I'm making an hour and a half movie.
Adam I'm not doing a book.
Adam Which is because the because the book is alway is made up of diary entries and letters and stuff like that.
Adam And it suddenly occurred to me, is that the only way you could do the book properly?
Adam Is you almost make
Adam a series of smaller movies, so you do it from Mina's perspective, Jonathan's perspective, Dr. Steward and so on.
Adam Like all the people who contribute
Adam in the book.
Adam So you almost have like a you know, almost like have a completely different aesthetic for each person's thing.
Adam I mean,
Adam it'd be disjointed as fuck and people would hate it.
Adam But I think that's possibly,
Adam you know, if you really want to do the book.
Adam Because I mean, obviously then puts on
Adam the Vlad the Impaler stuff at the start and again, that's not the book.
Lee
Adam No.
Adam So it's kind of it's a weird choice to then call it Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Adam Especially because it's technically Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Jennifer Turning in his grave, would he?
Lee He wasn't staked down.
Adam Yeah.
Jennifer
Jennifer Yeah, no.
Jennifer I think I think I would watch it again now, as in, I think like it's what is it, 30 years old, so I think like, you know, it's not bad, but,
Jennifer I was saying, I'd only want to watch the Mark Gage's one again now because that to me was so much better.
Lee Yeah.
Jennifer done in a way, wasn't it? And Matt, I'm trying to remember what it was like.
Jennifer But was that almost like the three parts with different stories?
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Lee Because they're basically,
Jennifer Yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Adam Yeah, because it was the John it was the Jonathan Harker section, then it was the voyage of the Demeter, which is very rarely.
Jennifer Yeah, done at all.
Adam Yeah, done at all.
Chris Yeah, yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Adam I'm still not seen the film of that.
Adam You did, didn't you, Lee, you said it wasn't all that though.
Lee It wasn't great.
Lee No.
Adam fair enough.
Adam Yeah, it's a shame, because that that did seem like a good idea. I mean, I have to check it out at some point when I can, when it's just on or whatever.
Adam
Adam Oh, excuse me.
Adam But the and then, yeah, the last episode was the modern day update as it were, like sort of, you know, it was basically Dracula AD 1972.
Adam But whatever it was, 2015, I think it was or something like that.
Adam Yeah.
Lee But But yeah, I mean,
Lee
Lee when they
Jennifer many looks.
Lee many looks, all of his looks.
Lee When they get to the castle with that strange hair and the long flowing cloak.
Lee I thought that I liked his armor.
Lee Like that was a totally different new.
Adam Yeah.
Lee Yeah.
Lee I'd never seen anything that looked like that.
Lee I mean, it was very, a bit Armageddon.
Jennifer a bit Armageddon.
Lee He did look a bit like an Armageddon.
Lee But yeah,
Lee I I thought all that was great.
Lee yeah,
Jennifer Yes.
Lee and the stuff that's from the book that was brought in like the ring's of blue fire and all that kind of stuff, all that was used slightly differently, yeah, it was nice to at least see it in there just as a.
Lee Yeah, absolutely.
Lee Almost an Easter egg or whatever to anyone who's read the book.
Lee and has not.
Lee
Lee
Lee yeah, seen that done before.
Lee So I I did think it it did a lot more this time than I remembered thinking previously.
Lee But.
Adam I think I I think it has managed to sort of have its own iconic nature.
Adam Because
Adam the older Dracula with the hair hair and the red cape and everything, that has that's the Dracula that gets taken from this film.
Lee Yeah.
Adam You know, if people want to use that, I mean, obviously the Mr. Burns is dressed as it in the Simpsons at one point and so on and so forth.
Adam And it's that's it's always that look that is the iconic one that sort of come from it.
Adam And Lucy's sort of like once Lucy's vampirized and it's like her funeral gown.
Lee Yeah.
Adam I've seen loads of people like use that look and stuff like that.
Adam That's obviously really sort of taken.
Adam But I I but also I think the the music.
Adam
Adam as well was weirdly admittedly it does also come from that time.
Adam where you can honestly say, yeah, everyone wants to sound like Batman.
Jennifer Yeah.
Adam It's all variations on.
Lee Da da da da.
Adam But
Jennifer he was a Batman, he was a man.
Chris It's true.
Adam Well, yeah.
Adam He's original man back.
Adam But yeah.
Adam So, Wojciech Kilar's
Adam music he also did the Ninth Gate.
Lee Oh, okay.
Jennifer Oh.
Jennifer Oh, that's good, yeah.
Adam Yeah, and
Adam
Adam and didn't they reuse it in They used it in American Horror Story, I think.
Jennifer
Adam In the first series of American Horror Story, I think this was like the music that accompanied the black Dahlia.
Adam Dr. Murder bits.
Adam Because they they reuse a lot of scores and things like that, they use Candyman and things.
Adam But
Adam and then obviously at the end of it, you've got Annie Lennox's love song for a vampire.
Lee Oh, see, that was on MTV.
Lee I probably saw that more than the film.
Lee because they probably couldn't watch the film at the time, but we had MTV.
Lee So that was just like probably made me like the film without watching the film.
Lee Yeah.
Adam It's also that lovely thing where it doesn't really fit with the film.
Jennifer No.
Adam In a way, because it's like,
Adam what it's it's it's the 90s, how you sell a soundtrack album is you had a hit single on it.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And, you know, it's just it's just an Annie Lennox song.
Adam It's a good song.
Adam I like it, but it's like sins and like crashing symbols and stuff like that.
Adam and you sort of.
Adam But I hadn't there's a couple of things, music-based that I didn't know about.
Adam So one of the things, because I was going, I remember going when it's the brides attacking Mina and Van Helsing, I loved all the sort of cackling and the weird shrieks and everything that was going on on there.
Adam And then in the end credits, I noticed that Demanda Gallas is there's a song of hers in here, but also apparently she I I looked it up and she was actually contributing to the sound design.
Lee Oh, okay.
Jennifer Oh, clever.
Adam And she's like a she's a a singer, but she does the most extraordinary like operatic disturbing gothic weirdness and
Adam yeah, I've got I've got a few of her albums and she's like like a sort of
Adam activist and composer and stuff like that.
Adam And so she does all those sort of weird bits.
Adam So I was in a way, I was quite pleased, I was like,
Adam Oh, this has obviously been resonating with me since.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Since before I knew her.
Adam Because I got introduced to her through the Netball Killers soundtrack a few years later.
Adam
Adam So, but that point I was really, but but here's the one that got me.
Adam When he stabs the cross and screams, that's not Gary Oldman.
Jennifer Oh, it's not.
Adam No.
Adam Because apparently Gary Oldman couldn't quite nail it.
Adam I mean, I don't know if you guys watched those makings of, but
Lee Yes.
Jennifer I was laughing at his accent, bless him, he just sounds too sort of normal and.
Adam Yeah.
Adam Too sweet.
Adam Doesn't he?
Jennifer Yeah.
Chris It it both takes away from the magic and also makes you realize how impressive they are when they're acting.
Adam But I mean we we'll have to discuss how they do that weird make.
Adam how they made it weirdly.
Adam But before I forget,
Adam so Gary Oldman couldn't nail the scream.
Adam At the suggestion of Sophia Coppola, Francis Ford Coppola's daughter, who's director and Oscar-winning screenwriter in her own right these days.
Adam She suggested, why don't we get Lux Interior from the Cramps in?
Jennifer Oh!
Adam And that is who did the fucking scream.
Lee Wow!
Jennifer Was that an excuse because she liked the band or something.
Adam Yeah.
Adam Absolutely, yeah.
Adam She was just a.
Jennifer Dad, can we get them in, please?
Adam Yeah, Lux Interior, scream.
Adam You feel amazing.
Adam So, yeah.
Adam So basically, yeah, so that's Lux Interior's scream, not Gary Oldman.
Lee Nice.
Adam But you can see from the making of that there's a lot of headbanging going on.
Lee Yeah.
Adam It's a weird.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yes.
Adam But also the fact that that always fascinated me that sort of France.
Adam Because in a weird way, I watched this making of and that I didn't appreciate at the time.
Adam How fucking unusual a setup it was, where it was like,
Adam Come to my house.
Adam This is Coppola, come to my house.
Adam Live here.
Adam I'll just put you up bed and bored, we'll fuck around, do drama games.
Adam Rehearse on a sort of half built sound stage of what you you know, so you can really work it through and give it that sort of rehearsal time that you'd normally get for like a play or something.
Lee Yeah.
Adam
Adam You know.
Adam But and then we'll go off and do the fucking film.
Adam And you're like, that is incredible.
Lee Yeah.
Lee That is that's such a revolutionary way of doing it.
Lee It's
Lee But I mean it does pay off.
Lee I think and I think that's why this film does have its own cult.
Lee following the way it does.
Lee So,
Lee when we as I say Adam shared some links when we've watched some some other shots and stuff.
Lee And one of them was the South Bank show talking about Dracula.
Adam Oh, yeah.
Lee and they showed you then the Dracula experience at Whitby, as it then was.
Lee So we went a few years ago, two, maybe three years ago, and that is now basically just entirely the Francis Ford Coppola.
Lee One.
Adam Oh,
Adam really.
Lee The Dracula experience is just the Bram Stoker's Dracula experience.
Adam Oh, okay.
Jennifer Yeah, it's few other bits in there, but.
Lee Yeah.
Lee Yeah, it's very purely the aesthetic of it and everything.
Adam I wonder if it was a link up.
Adam from both being in the South Bank show, because that South Bank show's kind of a,
Adam half promo, that came on that was just the South Bank show were doing Dracula.
Adam Coincidentally, at the time that Dracula's on at the cinema, and we've got loads of behind the scenes bits talking to the people.
Adam We did Dracula.
Adam It was kind of half and half.
Adam You know,
Lee Yeah.
Adam But
Adam no, that's really interesting, maybe they just, you know, there was a connection forced there.
Adam So they were like.
Jennifer They gave the ghost what they wanted.
Jennifer They were like, we know which Dracula they want, let's not pretend.
Jennifer
Lee
Lee young romantic goth.
Lee Right, rather than full-on horror fans.
Jennifer Yeah.
Lee Yeah, I think so.
Lee So yeah,
Lee it does feel more with it.
Lee Sorry.
Adam Because there's also that because the 90s is a weird.
Adam sort of period in terms of horror.
Adam And certainly, like this sort of seemed to be part of a trend of,
Adam well, we're going to do a horror. It's not not absolutely a horror.
Lee
Adam You know, it's almost like we'll sneak it in by putting in romance.
Adam or, you know, it's or sort of it's like, look, it's not really horror, so normal people could come and see it.
Adam It's okay.
Adam And.
Adam Yeah.
Adam But you also got because there was but it's this sort of weird thing of you Kenneth Branagh did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
Adam Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
Adam Which again is kind of I find it similar to this.
Adam I mean, I haven't seen it for bloody.
Adam years and years and years, but.
Adam I find it similar to this because as I remember, it's like, we're doing the book.
Adam Oh, except for those bits that we're not doing from the book.
Adam You know.
Adam And.
Adam But when they, you know, you've slapped the author's name on it, you're pretty, you're making a statement that there.
Adam But there was also a weird one where it was like and this sounds like a fever dream, I'm sure it's not, but I'm sure there was a Jekyl and Hyde, but it was all told from the perspective of the made who was Julia Roberts.
Lee That's a weird dream of yours.
Adam Yeah.
Adam And it was.
Adam No, but that's a.
Adam Do you know what I mean?
Adam It's like.
Adam So they would have all these sort of like, no, no, we can be high brow about it.
Adam You know, we can, you know.
Adam Horror is a literary genre.
Adam
Adam They did seem to want to do them as as movies all of this point.
Chris I suppose, yeah.
Chris They were trying to make these as big as possible.
Lee Yeah.
Jennifer They want to draw people.
Chris Yeah.
Lee And I think that's that's that.
Lee That goes so much in the casting choices.
Lee It was just who's famous at the time, just bang them all in the same film together.
Lee and it's it's bound to.
Chris Oh,
Chris I didn't mind Winona Ryder in this.
Chris So either I was totally not seeing the things that both of you saw.
Chris or which she's all right, but she's all right.
Jennifer She's all right.
Adam I think she's.
Adam Let's face it, Keanu saves a lot of people because the poor can be the scapegoat.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Adam You know, but sort of if if if they had got if you'd have had Richard E Grant playing Jonathan Harker, you know, because I think he could do the trauma side of it, you know, better.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And actually,
Adam the other idea I had was because I I watching all the making of and everything else like that, I just get the impression that Gary Oldman was it was never a part that they suggested to him to play.
Adam It wasn't like a part that he was fighting for or something that he had wanted to play.
Adam But weirdly enough, Francis Ford Coppola would have had in his phone book, imagine phoning Nicholas Cage and saying, do you want to play Dracula, boy?
Adam Because I don't think Nicholas Cage would have played it any differently to how he does it in Renfield.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And weirdly enough, I think that would work on both versions.
Lee Yeah.
Adam I think he would work in the in the serious context as he would have worked in the other.
Lee Yeah.
Lee Yeah.
Lee Again, that was another one, I'm surprised that much I enjoyed Renfield.
Lee I could think I could go back and give that another rewatch again soon.
Jennifer That was good fun.
Lee Yeah.
Lee
Lee But yeah, I I I think I think is there are so many the other reason I don't come back to this very often.
Lee I've only seen it a handful of times.
Lee I think there are a lot of other versions, because as we said, there are so many out there.
Lee
Lee yeah, and I'm never really in the romantic mood. I like I want the horror violence or I want the black and white.
Lee or I want that very British feel, or whatever.
Lee And so this one just never comes to the four as if I'm going to watch a Dracula film.
Lee This one isn't going to be, as you said, Adam, it's not going to be in my top five, but actually, yeah, it's it's choice of Dracula.
Jennifer might make it top 10. Does not make it top five.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah, I mean, I I think everyone involved could not help but make a good film.
Adam Just it's just not the best of Dracula Dracula films, really.
Adam That's the thing.
Lee But yeah.
Lee Pleasant surprise, really.
Lee So you glad we finally covered it.
Jennifer Yeah, glad we finally covered it.
Jennifer Yes, because, you know, feel like we should do.
Jennifer Should go there.
Jennifer I mean, how many Dracula have we covered now?
Jennifer Have you got a sort of list of,
Adam I'll have a check.
Adam I think we've about three.
Jennifer Put the.
Jennifer Put the numbers up on, you know, Instagram and, you know.
Adam I'll have a check.
Adam But yeah, I think I think we've only done three actual Dracula films.
Jennifer Yeah, okay.
Jennifer Fair enough.
Adam Oh no, four, Abbott and Costello meet Frank.
Lee Oh, yeah.
Adam Oh.
Jennifer Oh.
Adam Yeah.
Jennifer So has everyone got a favorite Dracula film then?
Jennifer That they can just name off.
Chris Did we actually
Chris cover the Nosferatu remake.
Chris I can't remember if we actually covered it or not.
Adam No, we talked about it on a we have been watching.
Adam because I think two of us had seen it at that point, but the other.
Chris Oh, okay.
Adam haven't.
Adam And also,
Adam it also if we're going down that route, I'd love us to do the Werner Herzog.
Adam Nosferatu.
Adam Just so I can, it's got the best Renfield.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Clare is an absolute devotee of Roland Topper's Renfield.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah, he's just astounding in it.
Adam So,
Lee But there's.
Lee I'll tell you what there's.
Lee Weirdly enough, there's a BBC one with Louis Jordan, which is really good.
Lee Which is much more.
Lee the idea of doing the book.
Lee essentially.
Lee I've got that on DVD and I've tried started watching it, I think I got about halfway through and then planning to finish it at a later date and never did and just forgot it was on the shelf.
Lee But.
Lee
Lee yeah, I I would quite like because it is actually shot in Whitby and stuff.
Lee So it's quite
Lee Yeah.
Lee So it's got all of that going for it. So yeah, I would quite like to go back and give that another go perhaps.
Lee But
Lee Yeah.
Lee Not great example.
Adam Actually, the ultimate, the ultimate one is the radio adaptation from 1991. That's perfect. It's exactly the book, it's done. And Frederick Jagger is Dracula and
Adam Oh, I can't remember a bloody name now, but yeah, I I don't think it's it's mostly it's mostly Felicity Logan.
Adam That's it, that's what I'm thinking of, Felicity Logan's Meana.
Adam yeah, and lots of voice voice people.
Lee Yes.
Adam He's all voices.
Lee Yes.
Lee Yes.
Lee But I've got to say,
Adam That's that's the thing, makes it you sort of just yeah.
Lee But I say having rewatched Bram Stoker's Dracula, I still stand by every choice I made for my Muppets recasting.
Jennifer Oh yeah.
Jennifer I think the Muppets would definitely be better still.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Absolutely.
Chris Yes.
Chris Well, well, I'm still on the honeymoon period for this one.
Chris So we'll review this again in another 10 years and see if it's gone downhill or or up.
Adam Yeah.
Lee
Lee Yes, so very quickly.
Lee Having,
Lee we've got some news.
Lee we are going to be taking a regular yearly break that we do.
Lee We don't always have it in the same month.
Lee So this episode will be dropping on the 3rd of January, I think, no, no.
Lee It'll be dropping on the 4th of January.
Lee It's the Sunday.
Lee and then you will not hear from us again until the 1st of February.
Lee we've got stuff going on.
Lee So we're all going to be very busy.
Lee but.
Lee we will be returning as long as everything aligns as it should.
Lee We'll be returning on the 1st of February.
Lee With our horror on sea episode that we do.
Jennifer Everyone.
Jennifer should go and see horror on sea because this will come out in enough time that people can get a ticket horror on sea at Southend. It is a super festival, two weekends of all of the.
Jennifer What do we call them?
Lee Pretend horror films.
Jennifer what are they called?
Lee They call it.
Jennifer No, they called independent, thank you.
Jennifer Indie horror.
Chris Indie.
Jennifer Which I'm getting more and more keen on.
Chris I think the more.
Chris We've seen some of the best films we've ever seen here.
Lee Absolutely.
Lee She still keeps calling it.
Jennifer No, I can't remember what they call it.
Jennifer Indie makes it easy.
Chris It's.
Chris It's an endearing mocking.
Adam I love the idea of the number of people you've wound up so.
Jennifer I'm not being rude.
Adam Yeah.
Jennifer We're trying not trying to be.
Lee
Jennifer But yeah, Indie's just like, you know, dodgy bands.
Jennifer Yeah, I love them. They're good people now.
Adam Yeah.
Lee yeah, so it's a horror.
Lee Yeah.
Lee So,
Lee we'll be back for that.
Lee also Ghost story for Christmas, we've just watched, but a lot of people haven't watched it yet, so.
Jennifer Oh.
Lee Oh.
Lee We will be covering that at a later date.
Lee Because obviously we don't want to spoil it for anyone who's been too busy over the festive period.
Jennifer Has everyone here.
Jennifer watched it?
Adam Yes.
Lee Chris is shaking his head.
Lee yeah, so we couldn't discuss it anyway.
Lee
Lee But yes, so if you haven't seen it, I do because we will be discussing it.
Lee
Adam I think I think most of when we do we have been watching, I think most of it will be ghost stories for Christmas.
Adam Yeah.
Adam that have been there was a bumper crop this year and it's quite quite lovely.
Lee Yeah.
Lee Nice.
Lee Oh, yeah, definitely.
Lee And and the guys from Broken Vale came back and gave us another very good Ghost Story for Christmas radio show that was absolutely brilliant.
Lee An individual like a standalone episode that Adam posted about.
Jennifer Oh, yeah.
Lee Tond for anyone who's looking for it. Yeah, so go on Spotify, look up Tond or Broken Vale.
Lee And it is sinister as all hell, it's fantastic.
Adam Yeah.
Adam And there was the new Haunted season episode on Shutter.
Lee Yes.
Adam again, yeah.
Adam Just so many.
Adam Yeah, lots of lots of goodies.
Lee Yes.
Lee So, go and check out all of those, have a lovely January.
Lee we hope you all had a great Christmas and New Year.
Lee And we will see you on the 1st of February to discuss Horror on C.
Lee Good night.
Adam Good night.
Chris Good night.
