Razor Blade Smile
00:38:31
About
It’s time to visit the misspent youth of the team, hurtling back to 1998 for Jake West’s “Razor Blade Smile”. A film that shows that a coffin can make a lovely centrepiece gun rack in any bedroom; highlights that vampires are the only ones not showing off their fangs at a Goth club; and bravely needle drops “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” like “The Hunger” just didn’t happen. Razor Blade Smile made something of a splash when it came out - a flashy/trashy horror with camp laughs, nudity, gore and an icon in the form of Eileen Daly’s rubber cat-suited vampire assassin, it felt utterly different to anything else emerging from the doldrums of the British film industry. Made on a shoestring budget, but never aiming for anything less than spectacle; time hasn’t necessarily been too kind to it visually, although ironically it’s the (then) state of the art computer generated imagery that has dated the worst. More importantly; it’s shoot-outs and fetish wear aesthetic predates both The Matrix and Underworld franchises. Whilst some minor roles may feature less than stellar acting, the main cast are giving their all, with Daly cementing her place as a British scream queen, and a genuinely brilliant turn from Christopher Adamson as the villain. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
Adam's research
Verbatim lifts from Adam's own words in the episode. Click a timestamp to hear him say it.
- Razorblade Smile's release and UK independent cinema context
It was probably, probably, cuz I mean it was late '98, it came out. It got theatrical release sort of. Yeah, yeah, and it, it sort of got a run up, it was released in October. So it was like sort of, you know, Halloween, so we've got a vampire movie, you know, so that was part of the. Uh, part of the promotion as it were or whatever, but yeah, so it was probably when it went to video that you saw it, Lee. … America has a better sort of, at that point, America was pumping out a lot of independent cinema. But yeah, this was Brit cinema very few and far between, you know, even, even had a, there was a bit of a resurgence, you know, you had like sort of stuff with like mostly Danny Boyle, actually, it was like, but yeah. For someone to do like a completely independent horror film, um, at that point was pretty unheard of, yeah.
- Eileen Daly's career and Redemption Films
I-Ileen Daly was an adult film star. And then she sort of, but she also was doing like modeling and so she would crop up in bizarre magazine and skin two and places like that, and she wrote for the, she was a columnist for the Dark Side magazine, like the horror, uh, movie magazine. And so she was around and people knew her. And but this was sort of like, I think this was the first thing I saw her in, you know, like the, like a proper film. Um, and yeah, she's, and she remains like we, we met her at, um, I was going to say because that's like in a way I sort of wish I'd seen this before we went to horror on C that was the first time. So you went, now you know why me and Lee were a bit starstruck. … So, you know, it's there's, um, and she, she, she's pretty skilled. She's, she did a band called Jezebel. Like there was a sort of like metal goth rock sort of thing. Apparently she's in a, she did a band or is in a band called Eileen and Ben, and they actually went on The X Factor. And did quite well, apparently. So, yeah, but no, so she's sort of like she's been a figure who's been sort of like. And basically, one of the other things was is that there's a, there was a label called Redemption Films, which was a video, which was a video label, and it was started by, um, Eileen Daly and. Oh, what is his name? I've, bear with me while I check my notes because I cannot for the life of me remember his name. … Yeah, that was that was it, yeah. Yeah, Nigel Wingrove, that's it. So, and um, yeah, so they started Redemption Films and basically it was a video label that at the time was releasing all the stuff that you didn't get. Uh, that wasn't getting much of a video release, like a lot of sort of euro horror and sort of border line porn sort of horror and stuff like that. And, um, like nunsploitation films and sort of Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci and all sort of. And weirdly enough, they were like the first label that was kind of like, oh yeah, you can't actually see these, you know, they, they weren't getting a release over here, so they sort of started that gap and were filling that. And um, and Eileen Daly was like, basically the sort of, the logo that, Redemption Films had this really elaborate logo and it was her face in the middle of it. And because Redemption film like Redemption Films like they, they, um, Nigel Wingrove said that a lot of the films that he was releasing didn't necessarily have decent artwork or artwork that he could use or stuff like that. So what they started doing was is all of Redemption's releases are, um, like staged photographs with models, including like Eileen Daly was in loads of them. And basically, it would be a black and white, you know, sort of like artistic interpretation of the film. So, you know, it just wasn't, wasn't necessarily like you weren't copying a scene from the film, but it was almost like you gave it a front cover. … They were always really extraordinary. … Yeah, so so she was part of Redemption and and um, yeah, they, I mean that was where, I mean, they released, they released some amazing stuff. That was, do you remember, Lee, I had the video, that was the first place I got the video, which was the Clive Barker student films. Um, yeah, those I can't remember what they're called now but those two um, the Forbidden and something else. But yeah, so they were but they they were also releasing like some really amazing horror movies that at the time you couldn't see and weren't necessarily going to show up on telly or whatever like that. And um, yeah, it was that was sort of like where I remembered her from, I think, initially. But um, but yeah, and um, yeah, so.
- Razorblade Smile's influence on films like The Matrix and Underworld
But it predates The Matrix, it predates Underworld, which I think is even more this whole sort of, you know, the sort of leather-clad shoot 'em ups. And sort of like, you know, trying, trying to do John Woo sort of style gun fights in rubber catsuits and stuff like that. And Underworld in particular is very sort of comes from this, I think.
- Razorblade Smile remaster and upcoming documentaries
Incidentally, there is a, this is something I would be quite interested to see is apparently the, they've, by the looks of it, certainly from like credit lists on IMDB, there's a load of documentaries in the offing. About it that are going to go on some presumably on a DVD Blu-ray release. Because they they've remastered, uh, Jake West, the director's remastered it. And apparently showed it at a, um, showed it at a horror like showed it at a horror festival last year. So they've, I'd be interested to see it once it's been remastered to see whether, cuz I mean, there's sort of, there's, the limitations of a low budget are there, you, you know that. And, uh, let's be frank, there's, it's not an across the board amazing cast. There are a, there are a few weak links here and there. Fortunately, no one actually in a major role, essentially.
- Manga Entertainment's distribution and financial contribution
Cuz yeah, cuz it was on, um, cuz again, another tale of a great '90s sort of or 2000s label, um, Manga Entertainment who were distributing all anime over here and in the States. So again, it was like, I've already got a load of these sitting, you know, I've got a load of this label sitting there anyway. So you, but this was apparently they put money in like afterwards, for I think mostly for the visual effects, so like the sort of and the title sequence and stuff like that. Basically Manga Entertainment were like, oh, we could move into live action.
- Film budget and inflation
I had to look it up cuz I wanted to see if that translated, that's still only 40 grand now, which admittedly, if anyone's got only 40 grand, I'll take it off them. You know, I'll be quite happy with 40 grand. But it really does not make a film.
- Visual effects company (The Mill)
Do you know what I mean? like there's just sort of bits in there where it's like, it's, it's very, um, I actually I saw that the, the company who did the visual effects for it, The Mill, who ended up doing, um, the Revive series of Doctor Who. So I didn't realize they'd actually been going that long doing like CGI and stuff like that. And obviously it sort of moved, moved on somewhat.
- Director Jake West's filmography and documentary work
And actually the thing is Jake West who directed it, um, has made some, I mean, he's made other films because he did, um, oh crap, what's it called? Evil Aliens. … Yeah, so you see again, it's very much in the in a similar sort of vein. Um, he also did Doghouse. Which was a Danny Dyer film that, I'll be frank, never saw cuz it looked shit. Um. Um, but he also did the third Pumpkinhead film. Um, and there's a, an anthology that I've never seen called Midnight Peep Show that he did a segment for, and he did a segment for ABC's of Death. Um, but the the thing I really love, Jake West has made some fucking incredible documentaries. The yeah, cuz he did the video nasties moral panic one that came out on three discs. And then the follow-up video nasties Draconian days, which weirdly enough, just out of the blue, me and Claire had watched like maybe a month or so ago. And yeah, his documentaries I, to be honest, that's where I hope he keeps going. Cuz you know, I think, um, but he also did the documentary that's on the Extro DVD, so, um, uh, Extro Blu-ray, so and. He's also done one that I didn't know was him but I really wanted to see it anyway, which is, uh, Mancunian Man, the legendary life of Cliff Twemlow, which was who was a, apparently he's like some northern nightclub bouncer who just made a load of independent like action and horror films and stuff like that. … Um, so but yeah, and he also is the, um, he runs the DVD label Nucleus. … And so there's a lot of, um, oh, and he's, um, I think he produces Stark Raving Cinema podcast, which I've listened to a few of that, that's a pretty good show. And, um, but yeah, the, um, yeah, Nucleus Films who again, it's like, I've got quite a few of their releases and they're always like more obscure stuff. And actually, um, some documentary stuff as well, like horror documentaries. So that's definitely where, you know, that's that's another string to Jake West that I think is really interesting and they and yeah, I heartily recommend those, um, video nasties documentaries cuz they're just so well put together. And speaking to all the right people. Because yeah, you know, it's just. I mean, he's got the connections, so, you know, that'd be that'd be why.
- David Warbeck's cameo and horror film background
And and the other thing that we've got is, um, uh, David Warbeck is, um, you know, the pathologist horror movie guy, cuz that's because that for a minute feels like a weird thing where you're like, this guy's getting a lot of air time here. And then I realized it was David Warbeck, who's in like the Beyond and, um, like quite a few '70s like horrors and stuff like that, and yeah, sci-fi and things. … But um. But yeah, so and again, I think that's just like, oh, well, we'll get, that's, that's the old horror star that we get into this. That sort of yeah, you know, it's almost like you always, always with British independent films, I love the fact that there's always like, right, we want to get a, we want to get a touchstone in, we want to get someone who's, who's been there, who's touched the cloak.
Highlights
Transcript
Show full transcript
Lee Good evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
Chris I'm Chris.
Adam I'm Adam.
Lee And we're here this evening to discuss 1998, independent classic, in my opinion, Razorblade Smile.
Lee there will be spoilers, there will be swearing, and yeah, and I, I think that's everything we need to cover, really.
Lee so before, sorry, I'm full of cold and my brain is working on about 50% at the moment, so I do apologize if I keep just forgetting what I'm supposed to be doing.
Adam Don't worry, we'll, we'll just put, we'll just put it down to age, like you do with us.
Chris At least we did, we did remember to actually do this tonight, so that, that was something.
Lee Yeah, yeah, I remembered 20 minutes before we turned the microphones on.
Chris There you go. Well done.
Adam And...
Lee
Lee so Chris, obviously, I know this the, the format of this show has been always that you are, these will be new films to you the majority of the time, but something tells me you would very probably have seen this when you were a teenager.
Chris Absolutely not.
Lee Oh, really?
Chris No. I, I mean, I, it seems surprising to me.
Chris Cuz clearly, I was watching, I was like, yeah, I absolutely should have watched this.
Chris 1998, so yeah, I was 18, I was just legal enough to watch this at the time. So that would have been perfect.
Chris But yeah, no, like it's got everything you could want really, hasn't it, in, in a film about vampires.
Chris And, you know, like it's a tongue-in-cheek, satirical view, and I think done perfectly.
Chris And there's a very good twist, which really finishes the film perfectly.
Lee Yes, it does. And so, just for as a very quick for anyone who hasn't seen the film, the plot of the film is it follows a sexy vampire played by Eileen Daly, who also has taken the very smart choice to also be an assassin because as she explains, she's got to kill people to live, so why not get paid to do it?
Lee It's a, it makes perfect sense, it's a, yeah, it's a great story.
Lee yeah, and it's, it follows her, the police investigation to find her, and an occult group who are manipulating the police to try and catch her, and we don't know why.
Chris
Lee yeah, this film opened my eyes to British independent cinema. I'd never seen anything like this and it blew me away.
Chris Yeah, I could imagine that.
Chris If so, I'm assuming you did watch it pretty much when it was released.
Lee Oh yeah, I think I saw it around 2000, 2001.
Lee No, it must have been earlier than that. No, so it must have been around '99, I think I must have seen this.
Adam It was probably, probably, cuz I mean it was late '98, it came out.
Chris Right.
Adam It got theatrical release sort of.
Chris I was going to say, yeah, was it, it was shown in cinemas.
Adam Yeah, yeah, and it, it sort of got a run up, it was released in October.
Adam So it was like sort of, you know, Halloween, so we've got a vampire movie, you know, so that was part of the.
Chris Right.
Adam part of the promotion as it were or whatever, but yeah, so it was probably when it went to video that you saw it, Lee.
Chris Yeah, I imagine that's rough. Yeah.
Lee Well it yeah, so so then already had it in his collection and mentioned one day that he'd seen Eileen Daly.
Lee I'm pretty sure he said she was in the Ford in Romford.
Chris Oh right.
Lee and he said, yeah, you know, the vampire from Razorblade Smile, and I said, I've not seen it.
Lee Yeah, so he brought it round the next day and lent it to me, yeah, and it was one of those films, I think I watched it about three times in the first two weeks.
Lee Cuz I was like, this is so different to anything I've ever seen before and it really, it really drew me in.
Lee Like the idea that people could outside of the studio system just make a film on a low budget and it'd be entertaining and fun.
Lee It, yeah, it was so new to me that idea, yeah, and this was the only example of it I had.
Lee Like obviously, I'd seen the Trauma movies and stuff, but yeah.
Adam America has a better sort of, at that point, America was pumping out a lot of independent cinema.
Adam But yeah, this was Brit cinema very few and far between, you know, even, even had a, there was a bit of a resurgence, you know, you had like sort of stuff with like mostly Danny Boyle, actually, it was like, but yeah.
Lee Yeah.
Adam For someone to do like a completely independent horror film, at that point was pretty unheard of, yeah.
Adam And..
Chris So, was this the first time anyone heard of Eileen Daly? Had she done anything before this?
Adam I-Ileen Daly was an adult film star.
Chris Oh right, okay.
Adam And then she sort of, but she also was doing like modeling and so she would crop up in bizarre magazine and skin two and places like that, and she wrote for the, she was a columnist for the Dark Side magazine, like the horror, movie magazine.
Adam And so she was around and people knew her.
Adam And but this was sort of like, I think this was the first thing I saw her in, you know, like the, like a proper film.
Adam and yeah, she's, and she remains like we, we met her at, I was going to say because that's like in a way I sort of wish I'd seen this before we went to horror on C that was the first time. So you went, now you know why me and Lee were a bit starstruck.
Chris Yeah, yeah.
Lee Totally, I'd been like.
Chris Totally, I'd been like, oh yeah, that's great.
Chris But I mean it was still, it was a good introduction to her.
Chris What was the name of the film we watched, I cannot think of that now, Mr. Crispin? It was Mr. Crispin.
Chris Oh right.
Chris Because that was pretty funny.
Chris I mean, yeah, very entertaining. Yeah, and that that was one she, she wrote and directed that herself.
Chris Okay.
Adam So, you know, it's there's, and she, she, she's pretty skilled. She's, she did a band called Jezebel.
Adam Like there was a sort of like metal goth rock sort of thing.
Adam Apparently she's in a, she did a band or is in a band called Eileen and Ben, and they actually went on The X Factor.
Lee Oh, wow.
Adam And did quite well, apparently.
Chris That's great.
Adam So, yeah, but no, so she's sort of like she's been a figure who's been sort of like.
Adam And basically, one of the other things was is that there's a, there was a label called Redemption Films, which was a video, which was a video label, and it was started by, Eileen Daly and.
Adam Oh, what is his name? I've, bear with me while I check my notes because I cannot for the life of me remember his name.
Lee I didn't realize she was involved in Redemption.
Lee I'm like, I knew she was in a lot. I seem to remember her being in promo, like shoots.
Adam Yeah, that was that was it, yeah.
Adam Yeah, Nigel Wingrove, that's it.
Adam So, and yeah, so they started Redemption Films and basically it was a video label that at the time was releasing all the stuff that you didn't get.
Adam that wasn't getting much of a video release, like a lot of sort of euro horror and sort of border line porn sort of horror and stuff like that.
Adam And, like nunsploitation films and sort of Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci and all sort of.
Adam And weirdly enough, they were like the first label that was kind of like, oh yeah, you can't actually see these, you know, they, they weren't getting a release over here, so they sort of started that gap and were filling that.
Adam And and Eileen Daly was like, basically the sort of, the logo that, Redemption Films had this really elaborate logo and it was her face in the middle of it.
Adam And because Redemption film like Redemption Films like they, they, Nigel Wingrove said that a lot of the films that he was releasing didn't necessarily have decent artwork or artwork that he could use or stuff like that. So what they started doing was is all of Redemption's releases are, like staged photographs with models, including like Eileen Daly was in loads of them.
Adam And basically, it would be a black and white, you know, sort of like artistic interpretation of the film.
Adam So, you know, it just wasn't, wasn't necessarily like you weren't copying a scene from the film, but it was almost like you gave it a front cover.
Lee And they were incredible. It's got to say, like.
Adam They were always really extraordinary.
Lee Stuck so well in my mind because they were, they were always beautiful, always and they were sinister, oh yeah, they just, they were the full package, their artwork was incredible.
Adam Yeah, so so she was part of Redemption and and yeah, they, I mean that was where, I mean, they released, they released some amazing stuff.
Adam That was, do you remember, Lee, I had the video, that was the first place I got the video, which was the Clive Barker student films.
Lee Yes, yes.
Adam yeah, those I can't remember what they're called now but those two the Forbidden and something else. But yeah, so they were but they they were also releasing like some really amazing horror movies that at the time you couldn't see and weren't necessarily going to show up on telly or whatever like that.
Adam And yeah, it was that was sort of like where I remembered her from, I think, initially.
Chris Okay.
Adam But but yeah, and yeah, so.
Lee So Mr. Crispin, she did, that we saw, there's also Hollywood Betrayed, First Bite is the Deepest and Witches Can Be Bitches, which is like, that's it.
Chris Okay.
Adam So she's done a series of those movies where they, which are kind of like, they're like a sort of piss take of Most Haunted almost, aren't they where it's like, they go and investigate a, they're supposedly the crew that's gone there to document a supernatural event or a happening or whatever like that.
Adam And it sort of, it follows a lot from, the, the sort of area where Razorblade Smile is. It's that same sort of, you know, it's the same sort of comedy, it's the same sort of.
Lee It's they're always great fun. I remember Mr. Crispin being fantastic and I'm sure I'm, I'm sure I saw Witches Can Be Bitches as well.
Adam That might have been the following like the following year or something like that. I'm sure, yeah, cuz I'm, I'm sure she's been there she's pretty regular there anyway.
Adam But yeah, so
Adam But I think, yeah, that was, that was the sort of my introduction to her.
Adam And then Razorblade Smile, but yeah.
Adam I mean watching it, I was struck by, it got to a point where I was like, this might be too '90s for me.
Lee (chuckles)
Adam And you know, and I'm saying, you know, and it's not, it's not an aesthetic that does not please.
Adam but the thing that struck me with it is in no way am I saying that it's on the effects level par.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Shall we say.
Adam But it predates The Matrix, it predates Underworld, which I think is even more this whole sort of, you know, the sort of leather-clad shoot 'em ups.
Lee Yeah, yeah.
Adam And sort of like, you know, trying, trying to do John Woo sort of style gun fights in rubber catsuits and stuff like that.
Adam And Underworld in particular is very sort of comes from this, I think.
Lee Totally.
Lee I think, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And it's and, you know, as I said, that's why I was surprised Chris hadn't seen it because, as you say, those films when they came out, I really enjoyed them.
Lee But when this came out and I was, you know, 19, 20, and still quite into Goth music and stuff, this was so me.
Lee That was why it hit so hard, it was independent and it was British and it felt like it had been filmed around places just round the corner.
Chris Yeah.
Adam Probably was.
Lee Yeah. (laughs)
Lee yeah, and it just, oh, it was, it was perfect, it was so good.
Lee yeah, and that's why it's really stuck with me. And it is one of those films that I do regularly still go back to.
Lee Probably every two, three years, this comes out and yeah, I give it another re-watch. I'm always surprised how much it holds up.
Lee As you say, it is very '90s.
Adam It's very '90s.
Adam I mean, I, I have to say, I haven't seen it for near enough 20 years, I think.
Lee Oh, really?
Adam Yeah, no, cuz I, I saw it at the time and yeah, I've, I, I actually had to go and get a copy cuz I realized I didn't own a copy of it.
Adam but,
Adam Incidentally, there is a, this is something I would be quite interested to see is apparently the, they've, by the looks of it, certainly from like credit lists on IMDB, there's a load of documentaries in the offing.
Chris Oh, interesting.
Adam About it that are going to go on some presumably on a DVD Blu-ray release.
Lee Oh, right.
Adam Because they they've remastered, Jake West, the director's remastered it.
Adam And apparently showed it at a, showed it at a horror like showed it at a horror festival last year.
Adam So they've, I'd be interested to see it once it's been remastered to see whether, cuz I mean, there's sort of, there's, the limitations of a low budget are there, you, you know that.
Adam And, let's be frank, there's, it's not an across the board amazing cast. There are a, there are a few weak links here and there. Fortunately, no one actually in a major role, essentially.
Chris See yeah, I think on the whole they kind of work well enough. It has that real sort of feeling, especially when they're chatting in the club or pub and it's like, you know, they kind of do that those scenes well.
Chris And especially, I think the dialogue's funny and, I do like the.
Lee I was going to say, those goth scenes, you are just missing in the background cuz that did look like everyone you were friends with at that time.
Adam Yeah, that's again, that is why you it does seem extraordinary that you've not seen, you hadn't seen it because it was like, you could possibly show up walking around the back of it, you know.
Chris Yeah.
Adam You know, this this is, let's face it, this is a film that a lot of patrons of Cyberdog in Camden saw at the time.
Chris Yeah.
Adam So.
Chris Oh yeah. And I think I must have just been a couple of years past that.
Chris And I mean, it was, well, I was off to university in 1998, so, I don't know, there's probably just some things going on.
Adam Hopefully you had bigger fish to fry, young man.
Lee I hope you did.
Adam I hope you didn't squander that opportunity for further education.
Lee you're saying about the cast as well, it's got to be said.
Lee Yeah, Christopher Adamson, Jonathan Coe and, Kevin Howarth, all are really good in this.
Lee Like, they really, yeah, I mean, Christopher Adamson particularly gives such a menacing performance.
Chris Yeah.
Adam Yeah, that was something that really struck me as I totally forgotten about him, and I think in a way there's almost like, you know, he did, he deserves, he deserves to get to play a major villain in something again.
Adam Because I think it's sort of, he is totally committed to it, but also I feel he's got the tone, you know, he knows the, he knows the bits where it's like, no, we're doing genuine menace here.
Chris Yeah.
Adam But also, and particularly towards the end where you get the twist, and then it becomes quite playful and sort of, you know.
Chris Yeah, yeah, it's a perfect adjustment.
Adam Yeah, he, and I mean, he's obviously like, cuz that's the thing as well, you have to have someone standing next to Eileen Daly in a catsuit, you have to have someone quite striking in their appearance.
Chris Yeah.
Adam So.
Adam
Adam but yeah, and actually that was the stuff, the stuff I really enjoyed this time round, I think was the, the police stuff.
Adam I think that's the, that for me was the, the best aspects of the humor was the idea of, you know, that usually in films where it's the one cop who's gone, you know, who knows that it's a supernatural occurrence, you know, and it's almost, it's almost a bit Cold Case where everyone else is just like, yeah, really, what?
Lee Yeah, yeah.
Adam You know, and I think that sort of, that's quite sort of, that's quite an those scenes, I thought worked really, really well.
Adam And and as you say, that was, Jonathan Coe, so as the, inspector.
Adam And I think yeah, those bits were really great.
Adam And cuz one of the guys was in, I recognized one of the coppers who was with him, showed up a lot in The Comic Strip.
Lee Oh, really?
Adam Like later series of The Comic Strip, yeah.
Adam There was a, what was it, the, yeah, Mark Kaven, who was one of the detectives when they brought, he was the guy who when they bring Lilith in and start questioning her.
Adam And I thought that, that, that I thought was a great, because the weird thing is is that I think that Eileen Daly, strangely enough, Eileen Daly's best stuff is actually the, the sort of, the more emotional stuff, I think she's, that's the, that's the better aspect of the performance than the sort of badassery.
Lee
Adam If you see what I mean, you know.
Adam It's like sort of, yeah, I think she really, when she's going through the book of faces and stuff like that.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And it's because obviously he's researched.
Adam And and I've been I sort of started re-watching The X Files recently. So he's very much in the Mulder and Mulder of like sort of this like, oh here's this case notes and everyone else is like, yeah, what, she's been killing people for 200 years, you know.
Chris Yeah.
Adam That's.
Lee (chuckles)
Adam And, yeah, so I, I, no, I thought those, those, those aspects of it were really great.
Adam But, but like I say, I'd be really interested to see what it looks like remastered.
Adam Because the, the version I got was just like the old Manga DVD.
Lee That's what I got as well.
Adam Cuz yeah, cuz it was on, cuz again, another tale of a great '90s sort of or 2000s label, Manga Entertainment who were distributing all anime over here and in the States.
Adam So again, it was like, I've already got a load of these sitting, you know, I've got a load of this label sitting there anyway.
Adam So you, but this was apparently they put money in like afterwards, for I think mostly for the visual effects, so like the sort of and the title sequence and stuff like that.
Adam Basically Manga Entertainment were like, oh, we could move into live action.
Chris Yeah, so you say it was based on a comic book series.
Chris So is that why they.
Adam I no, no, there is, I think there is a comic book series of it, but it's not based on a comic book series.
Adam Cuz the, cuz weirdly enough that was the only thing that I thought there was a couple of things that I thought that could predate it, and one of them was Durham Red from 2080, who was a bounty hunter who was also a vampire, so it's, you know.
Adam But, but not, it doesn't because that's part of like the 2000 AD dog stuff. So it's not quite as.
Adam And actually, that was the one thing I have seen Christopher Adamson in, he's in the, Sylvester Stallone Judge Dredd.
Lee Yeah, now.
Lee I was going to say this, like when you look at his film credits, I think it's, I mean, obviously he's a star in rolling this and he's smaller parts in other stuff.
Lee But yeah, he'd been in Judge Dredd, he'd been in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, like he's had some really big role.
Lee And I love the fact that he came, I think he's, I think, I think Robin Hood he just says soldier, so I don't know if that's going to be a big part of it.
Lee Yeah, yeah. It might be just but yeah.
Lee But yeah, so I mean, it's, it's good and I've seen he's done loads of stuff later as well, so I definitely, what was the one cuz I can't remember who he is in it, but he's they said he's in Legend.
Adam What was the one cuz I can't remember who he is in it, but he's they said he's in Legend.
Adam Like the, that's the one with Tom Hardy as the Kray Twins, not Tom Cruise and, right, the Devil.
Lee Right.
Lee And he's in Leatherface in 2017. So, it's good to say, see, he's still getting roles,
Lee Yeah, but yeah, I thought he was excellent and I thought it was perfectly cast as well. He's that cuz he works on both of those levels.
Lee So, so the twist we should probably, yeah, I think we've gone far enough for a spoiler.
Chris I was wondering, like, how, you, you both seem to say, you know, it can be re-watched and enjoyed as much. Cuz I was like, I mean, that's big enough twist and the fact they held it to the end.
Chris So, yeah, now you can say it, Lee, and.
Lee Yeah.
Lee So, so the twist is that he and Lilith have known each other for centuries and this is just a game they play where they, it's basically role-playing for vampires, and the whole thing has just been a game, with lots of people dying very violently in order for them to have a bit of a laugh.
Adam It's basically role-playing for vampires.
Lee But it, it's that, that's a thing, so he plays such a terrifying, powerful character.
Lee But then to see that love when the two of them come back together, like he manages to do that really well.
Adam He does. Yeah, he does the sort of affectionate side of it of the once the pretense is gone and everything else like that.
Adam And actually.
Chris And it seems so believable at that point, whereas you would have thought that could have seemed really stupid, but it's like, oh no, that totally makes sense.
Chris And yet also, I don't think it was obvious there wasn't anything that gave it away throughout, even though it seemed so obvious when they.
Adam Yeah, cuz I don't, I don't think they put it in there. You get flashbacks to how she became a vampire because he turned her into a vampire.
Chris Yeah, and that makes sense, you're like, I believe that, yeah, sure. Yeah, they they they they, they're actually, they're actually together and you know, it's and yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, like I say, I mean, I think anyone coming to it, I mean it's, I think it was something like, I think they made it for about 20 grand, or like filmed it for about 20 grand, that's great, isn't it?
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Lee Oh, yeah.
Adam That's great.
Lee That's great, isn't it?
Adam I mean.
Lee That's a lot of film for 20 grand.
Adam Strangely enough.
Adam I had to look it up cuz I wanted to see if that translated, that's still only 40 grand now, which admittedly, if anyone's got only 40 grand, I'll take it off them.
Chris Yeah.
Adam You know, I'll be quite happy with 40 grand.
Adam But it really does not make a film.
Lee But to make a film and probably even less so nowadays. Yeah, and it's so influential, as you said, you know, things like Underworld and everything, definitely took. The Matrix is too close. I think that that and I know that that aesthetic mainly come from came from the same inspirations, it's basically from hanging around goth clubs listening to Ministry, that's it.
Adam The Matrix is too close. I think that that and I know that that aesthetic mainly come from came from the same inspirations, it's basically from hanging around goth clubs listening to Ministry.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And so I you know, so I get the Matrix is like a sort of parallel to it.
Adam But Underworld, I really feel is like, yeah, you just, you saw this and just thought, right, we can do that but with real like with good effects for the guns.
Lee Bigger budget, yeah.
Adam Yeah, we, we can get a fight choreographer in rather than, right, just hack at each other with two with the swords and we'll, we'll go from there, you know.
Lee So that's the only thing with this that hasn't aged well, but again, it's, it's not because of the film.
Lee It's because of the time is that they obviously introduced a lot of CGI into it for the, for the background sequences and stuff.
Lee which hasn't aged well, but again, that's the, this is the issue. When you've got a super modern technology that's only just come out and you're doing it on a budget, it isn't going to age. But at the same time, this doesn't look any worse than fucking Spawn, which cost an absolute fortune. And this is this is the point, weirdly enough, I think like in terms of the CGI, the CGI just looks like, that's the points where it's like, oh, I can music videos.
Adam And this is this is the point, weirdly enough, I think like in terms of the CGI, the CGI just looks like, that's the points where it's like, oh, I can music videos.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Do you know what I mean? like there's just sort of bits in there where it's like, it's, it's very, I actually I saw that the, the company who did the visual effects for it, The Mill, who ended up doing, the Revive series of Doctor Who. So I didn't realize they'd actually been going that long doing like CGI and stuff like that.
Adam And obviously it sort of moved, moved on somewhat.
Adam But yeah, those sort of, cuz it just, they just feel like, you know, like cheap metal videos that you'd see in 1998, you know.
Adam It's sort of, they're they're not, they're not too bad. I I it's unfortunate and again, I know it's a budget thing, but you can see a lot of day for night shooting, but again, so hammer, it's just fucking expensive to shoot at night.
Lee Yeah.
Lee And it's at night and everyone's wearing black PVC, you're not going to see fuck all unless you.
Adam You're not going to be able to light it in in a decent a way as you can. And I think actually, I think the flashback footage is shot really well.
Lee That looks awesome.
Adam Still looks really, really good.
Adam What it weird thing is, I think it's also, it's also worth, cuz I've been watching those sort of spin-off stuff that they started doing straight to video when Doctor Who got canceled.
Adam And this ain't too far in terms of, I mean, this is, this is higher budget than those were. I mean, that's how cheap they are.
Adam But I don't think it's no, it doesn't look any worse than that. And a lot of that stuff, it still feels like 90s tele. You know, if you've watched that, that's, it doesn't look, you know, there it doesn't look poor for its time.
Lee Yeah.
Lee Yeah, this, this would have, this was cutting edge when it came out.
Adam Yeah, when it came out. It's got a lot more, yeah.
Lee Yeah, so it's only it's actual age that's dated it and not the fact that it was done obviously on a much lower budget.
Lee As I say, than something like Spawn, which is a massive Hollywood film, it looks so much worse than this.
Adam So, yeah, and I think I think they they there's, I mean, and weird and also not only that, but also when you get into the thing of.
Adam Oh, the grand conspiracy is the Illuminati, it's like, hello the '90s.
Lee (chuckles)
Adam There you are.
Adam You know.
Adam It sort of just, but again, I think for its time that was sort of the zeitgeist, you know, that was part of it, it wasn't as cliched as it is now.
Chris I know, but that's so funny in it to think at the time people would have been like, oh yeah, and now like how quickly they've just disappeared, like they're not doing much anymore.
Adam And this film would have introduced people to the concept of the Illuminati.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And I think that, I mean, cuz I mean, by the way, I just, just the other day on Instagram, I got a message from the Illuminati saying that they really like my stuff and would I like to join them.
Lee Oh, you love it.
Adam So long, bitches.
Lee I had one of them. Yeah. It's come out years ago. I forgot all about it.
Chris Either you're on your way up or or they're on their way down.
Adam I was going to say, yeah, this is if they're recruiting me, they're shit.
Lee Look at me here in my 10-pound Tesco's Halloween T-shirt and you know where all that money's going.
Adam No, I think it sort of, there's still a part of me that has an affection for it, I think.
Adam Because it's very, I just admire the spirit of it.
Lee Yeah.
Adam And actually the thing is Jake West who directed it, has made some, I mean, he's made other films because he did, oh crap, what's it called? Evil Aliens.
Lee Oh, yeah, that was great fun.
Lee Yes, that was really fun.
Adam Yeah, so you see again, it's very much in the in a similar sort of vein. he also did Doghouse.
Adam Which was a Danny Dyer film that, I'll be frank, never saw cuz it looked shit.
Adam but he also did the third Pumpkinhead film.
Lee What?
Adam and there's a, an anthology that I've never seen called Midnight Peep Show that he did a segment for, and he did a segment for ABC's of Death.
Adam but the the thing I really love, Jake West has made some fucking incredible documentaries.
Lee Oh, really?
Adam The yeah, cuz he did the video nasties moral panic one that came out on three discs.
Adam And then the follow-up video nasties Draconian days, which weirdly enough, just out of the blue, me and Claire had watched like maybe a month or so ago. And yeah, his documentaries I, to be honest, that's where I hope he keeps going. Cuz you know, I think, but he also did the documentary that's on the Extro DVD, so, Extro Blu-ray, so and.
Adam He's also done one that I didn't know was him but I really wanted to see it anyway, which is, Mancunian Man, the legendary life of Cliff Twemlow, which was who was a, apparently he's like some northern nightclub bouncer who just made a load of independent like action and horror films and stuff like that.
Lee Oh, nice.
Adam so but yeah, and he also is the, he runs the DVD label Nucleus.
Lee Oh, okay.
Adam And so there's a lot of, oh, and he's, I think he produces Stark Raving Cinema podcast, which I've listened to a few of that, that's a pretty good show.
Adam And, but yeah, the, yeah, Nucleus Films who again, it's like, I've got quite a few of their releases and they're always like more obscure stuff. And actually, some documentary stuff as well, like horror documentaries.
Adam So that's definitely where, you know, that's that's another string to Jake West that I think is really interesting and they and yeah, I heartily recommend those, video nasties documentaries cuz they're just so well put together.
Adam And speaking to all the right people.
Adam Because yeah, you know, it's just.
Adam I mean, he's got the connections, so, you know, that'd be that'd be why.
Adam
Adam And and the other thing that we've got is, David Warbeck is, you know, the pathologist horror movie guy, cuz that's because that for a minute feels like a weird thing where you're like, this guy's getting a lot of air time here. And then I realized it was David Warbeck, who's in like the Beyond and, like quite a few '70s like horrors and stuff like that, and yeah, sci-fi and things.
Adam But
Adam But yeah, so and again, I think that's just like, oh, well, we'll get, that's, that's the old horror star that we get into this.
Adam That sort of yeah, you know, it's almost like you always, always with British independent films, I love the fact that there's always like, right, we want to get a, we want to get a touchstone in, we want to get someone who's, who's been there, who's touched the cloak.
Lee Yeah.
Adam You know.
Lee Yeah, no.
Lee Absolutely.
Lee yeah, so this is a massive recommend for me, I say I it opened a whole new world of of cinema. And as I say, it did everything I wanted at the time, I loved that goth scene, and I loved vampires, and metal and women with guns and it, and it did it all.
Chris Still does quite a lot now.
Lee Yeah.
Adam Yeah.
Chris I am, I'm definitely going to check out more Eileen Daly.
Chris What, what would be the next one to go for?
Adam There's a very good electric blue I saw once.
Lee (chuckles)
Adam And I, and I mean that.
Chris Well, if you if you recommend it.
Adam Yeah, I, I do, yeah.
Lee If you've got to watch it as part of the show, Chris, then you know, you've got to watch it as part of the show.
Adam Again, I would have the caveat about budgetary restraints, but, you know, I think.
Lee just very quickly before we sign off.
Lee I just wanted to say if this gets out to people in time, I don't know when the exhibition finishes, but I went this weekend because we're recording this on November 2nd.
Lee So I went yesterday to Selfridges in Oxford Street, they're doing an exhibition of a lot of the costumes and props from the Guillermo del Toro Frankenstein that's has been out at the cinema and is hitting Netflix in five days.
Chris Oh yeah.
Lee if you get a chance to go to the exhibition, it's incredible.
Lee you get one hour to go around it, but that's plenty of time because there's no filler. It's just incredible costumes, fantastic bits and scenes and yeah, it's just, it's great, it's really good.
Lee it's a free thing, you just have to book your time slot. yeah, and it's in Selfridges, so it's, it's not hard to get to.
Lee But yeah, in Selfridges itself, which it doesn't tell you, behind Selfridges, you have to go out of the food court and follow the building round and there's like an exhibition room behind it. I don't know if it's storage or what they normally do with it, but it's not in the building itself.
Lee But yeah, I was the third person in the queue at the cinema, cuz they've got a cinema in Selfridges, so when we got there, there was no post sign post for it or anything.
Lee But I saw that it was showing in the cinema, so I went to the cinema, yeah, and then realized that the two people who'd been stood in front of me in the queue for the cinema who had then spoken to the lady and walked out, were also about to go in looking for their tickets on their phones as we got there.
Lee So.
Lee That's.
Lee Where it is, but yeah, it was really good and I haven't seen the film yet. Obviously, Guillermo del Toro and Frankenstein, I'm really excited for it, but yeah, this has absolutely peaked my excitement and I'm so keen to see it. It looks absolutely phenomenal.
Lee So.
Lee So, go and check those out.
Lee we'll be back in a fortnight's time where we'll be doing what we've been watching.
Lee it's been the Halloween period, so I'm hoping people have been watching lots of exciting Halloween stuff. I've been shit this year and I've gotten through maybe three or four films.
Lee Whereas normally, I'd do about 30, but I think that's a new job that takes up way more of my time.
Adam I'll I'll be honest, I think that this year for Halloween, it's basically been, I've stumbled into Halloween and anything that I've done that's Halloween related, I would have been doing anyway if it just if it was a Tuesday. You know, I'm watching a, I'm watching a horror film, I'm doing that anyway.
Lee But yes, so go and check out Razorblade Smile, go and check out the Guillermo del Toro Frankenstein exhibit if you can.
Lee If not, watch the film cuz it looks like it's going to be, I mean, it's going to be good, isn't it?
Lee If you're going to put that in anyone's hands, he's the person I'd trust more than anybody.
Adam I'm I'm hoping it'll be good, yeah.
Adam I think, yeah.
Lee So.
Lee So go and check those out, go and check out Razorblade Smile.
Lee And, and we will see you all in a fortnight's time for what we've been watching.
Lee Thanks very much.
Lee Good night.
Chris Good night.
Adam All right.
