Razor Blade Smile
00:38:31
About
It’s time to visit the misspent youth of the team, hurtling back to 1998 for Jake West’s “Razor Blade Smile”. A film that shows that a coffin can make a lovely centrepiece gun rack in any bedroom; highlights that vampires are the only ones not showing off their fangs at a Goth club; and bravely needle drops “Bela Lugosi’s Dead” like “The Hunger” just didn’t happen. Razor Blade Smile made something of a splash when it came out - a flashy/trashy horror with camp laughs, nudity, gore and an icon in the form of Eileen Daly’s rubber cat-suited vampire assassin, it felt utterly different to anything else emerging from the doldrums of the British film industry. Made on a shoestring budget, but never aiming for anything less than spectacle; time hasn’t necessarily been too kind to it visually, although ironically it’s the (then) state of the art computer generated imagery that has dated the worst. More importantly; it’s shoot-outs and fetish wear aesthetic predates both The Matrix and Underworld franchises. Whilst some minor roles may feature less than stellar acting, the main cast are giving their all, with Daly cementing her place as a British scream queen, and a genuinely brilliant turn from Christopher Adamson as the villain. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
Adam's research
Verbatim lifts from Adam's own words in the episode. Click a timestamp to hear him say it.
- Razorblade Smile's release and UK independent cinema context
It was probably, probably, cuz I mean it was late '98, it came out. It got theatrical release sort of. Yeah, yeah, and it, it sort of got a run up, it was released in October. So it was like sort of, you know, Halloween, so we've got a vampire movie, you know, so that was part of the. Uh, part of the promotion as it were or whatever, but yeah, so it was probably when it went to video that you saw it, Lee. … America has a better sort of, at that point, America was pumping out a lot of independent cinema. But yeah, this was Brit cinema very few and far between, you know, even, even had a, there was a bit of a resurgence, you know, you had like sort of stuff with like mostly Danny Boyle, actually, it was like, but yeah. For someone to do like a completely independent horror film, um, at that point was pretty unheard of, yeah.
- Eileen Daly's career and Redemption Films
I-Ileen Daly was an adult film star. And then she sort of, but she also was doing like modeling and so she would crop up in bizarre magazine and skin two and places like that, and she wrote for the, she was a columnist for the Dark Side magazine, like the horror, uh, movie magazine. And so she was around and people knew her. And but this was sort of like, I think this was the first thing I saw her in, you know, like the, like a proper film. Um, and yeah, she's, and she remains like we, we met her at, um, I was going to say because that's like in a way I sort of wish I'd seen this before we went to horror on C that was the first time. So you went, now you know why me and Lee were a bit starstruck. … So, you know, it's there's, um, and she, she, she's pretty skilled. She's, she did a band called Jezebel. Like there was a sort of like metal goth rock sort of thing. Apparently she's in a, she did a band or is in a band called Eileen and Ben, and they actually went on The X Factor. And did quite well, apparently. So, yeah, but no, so she's sort of like she's been a figure who's been sort of like. And basically, one of the other things was is that there's a, there was a label called Redemption Films, which was a video, which was a video label, and it was started by, um, Eileen Daly and. Oh, what is his name? I've, bear with me while I check my notes because I cannot for the life of me remember his name. … Yeah, that was that was it, yeah. Yeah, Nigel Wingrove, that's it. So, and um, yeah, so they started Redemption Films and basically it was a video label that at the time was releasing all the stuff that you didn't get. Uh, that wasn't getting much of a video release, like a lot of sort of euro horror and sort of border line porn sort of horror and stuff like that. And, um, like nunsploitation films and sort of Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci and all sort of. And weirdly enough, they were like the first label that was kind of like, oh yeah, you can't actually see these, you know, they, they weren't getting a release over here, so they sort of started that gap and were filling that. And um, and Eileen Daly was like, basically the sort of, the logo that, Redemption Films had this really elaborate logo and it was her face in the middle of it. And because Redemption film like Redemption Films like they, they, um, Nigel Wingrove said that a lot of the films that he was releasing didn't necessarily have decent artwork or artwork that he could use or stuff like that. So what they started doing was is all of Redemption's releases are, um, like staged photographs with models, including like Eileen Daly was in loads of them. And basically, it would be a black and white, you know, sort of like artistic interpretation of the film. So, you know, it just wasn't, wasn't necessarily like you weren't copying a scene from the film, but it was almost like you gave it a front cover. … They were always really extraordinary. … Yeah, so so she was part of Redemption and and um, yeah, they, I mean that was where, I mean, they released, they released some amazing stuff. That was, do you remember, Lee, I had the video, that was the first place I got the video, which was the Clive Barker student films. Um, yeah, those I can't remember what they're called now but those two um, the Forbidden and something else. But yeah, so they were but they they were also releasing like some really amazing horror movies that at the time you couldn't see and weren't necessarily going to show up on telly or whatever like that. And um, yeah, it was that was sort of like where I remembered her from, I think, initially. But um, but yeah, and um, yeah, so.
- Razorblade Smile's influence on films like The Matrix and Underworld
But it predates The Matrix, it predates Underworld, which I think is even more this whole sort of, you know, the sort of leather-clad shoot 'em ups. And sort of like, you know, trying, trying to do John Woo sort of style gun fights in rubber catsuits and stuff like that. And Underworld in particular is very sort of comes from this, I think.
- Razorblade Smile remaster and upcoming documentaries
Incidentally, there is a, this is something I would be quite interested to see is apparently the, they've, by the looks of it, certainly from like credit lists on IMDB, there's a load of documentaries in the offing. About it that are going to go on some presumably on a DVD Blu-ray release. Because they they've remastered, uh, Jake West, the director's remastered it. And apparently showed it at a, um, showed it at a horror like showed it at a horror festival last year. So they've, I'd be interested to see it once it's been remastered to see whether, cuz I mean, there's sort of, there's, the limitations of a low budget are there, you, you know that. And, uh, let's be frank, there's, it's not an across the board amazing cast. There are a, there are a few weak links here and there. Fortunately, no one actually in a major role, essentially.
- Manga Entertainment's distribution and financial contribution
Cuz yeah, cuz it was on, um, cuz again, another tale of a great '90s sort of or 2000s label, um, Manga Entertainment who were distributing all anime over here and in the States. So again, it was like, I've already got a load of these sitting, you know, I've got a load of this label sitting there anyway. So you, but this was apparently they put money in like afterwards, for I think mostly for the visual effects, so like the sort of and the title sequence and stuff like that. Basically Manga Entertainment were like, oh, we could move into live action.
- Film budget and inflation
I had to look it up cuz I wanted to see if that translated, that's still only 40 grand now, which admittedly, if anyone's got only 40 grand, I'll take it off them. You know, I'll be quite happy with 40 grand. But it really does not make a film.
- Visual effects company (The Mill)
Do you know what I mean? like there's just sort of bits in there where it's like, it's, it's very, um, I actually I saw that the, the company who did the visual effects for it, The Mill, who ended up doing, um, the Revive series of Doctor Who. So I didn't realize they'd actually been going that long doing like CGI and stuff like that. And obviously it sort of moved, moved on somewhat.
- Director Jake West's filmography and documentary work
And actually the thing is Jake West who directed it, um, has made some, I mean, he's made other films because he did, um, oh crap, what's it called? Evil Aliens. … Yeah, so you see again, it's very much in the in a similar sort of vein. Um, he also did Doghouse. Which was a Danny Dyer film that, I'll be frank, never saw cuz it looked shit. Um. Um, but he also did the third Pumpkinhead film. Um, and there's a, an anthology that I've never seen called Midnight Peep Show that he did a segment for, and he did a segment for ABC's of Death. Um, but the the thing I really love, Jake West has made some fucking incredible documentaries. The yeah, cuz he did the video nasties moral panic one that came out on three discs. And then the follow-up video nasties Draconian days, which weirdly enough, just out of the blue, me and Claire had watched like maybe a month or so ago. And yeah, his documentaries I, to be honest, that's where I hope he keeps going. Cuz you know, I think, um, but he also did the documentary that's on the Extro DVD, so, um, uh, Extro Blu-ray, so and. He's also done one that I didn't know was him but I really wanted to see it anyway, which is, uh, Mancunian Man, the legendary life of Cliff Twemlow, which was who was a, apparently he's like some northern nightclub bouncer who just made a load of independent like action and horror films and stuff like that. … Um, so but yeah, and he also is the, um, he runs the DVD label Nucleus. … And so there's a lot of, um, oh, and he's, um, I think he produces Stark Raving Cinema podcast, which I've listened to a few of that, that's a pretty good show. And, um, but yeah, the, um, yeah, Nucleus Films who again, it's like, I've got quite a few of their releases and they're always like more obscure stuff. And actually, um, some documentary stuff as well, like horror documentaries. So that's definitely where, you know, that's that's another string to Jake West that I think is really interesting and they and yeah, I heartily recommend those, um, video nasties documentaries cuz they're just so well put together. And speaking to all the right people. Because yeah, you know, it's just. I mean, he's got the connections, so, you know, that'd be that'd be why.
- David Warbeck's cameo and horror film background
And and the other thing that we've got is, um, uh, David Warbeck is, um, you know, the pathologist horror movie guy, cuz that's because that for a minute feels like a weird thing where you're like, this guy's getting a lot of air time here. And then I realized it was David Warbeck, who's in like the Beyond and, um, like quite a few '70s like horrors and stuff like that, and yeah, sci-fi and things. … But um. But yeah, so and again, I think that's just like, oh, well, we'll get, that's, that's the old horror star that we get into this. That sort of yeah, you know, it's almost like you always, always with British independent films, I love the fact that there's always like, right, we want to get a, we want to get a touchstone in, we want to get someone who's, who's been there, who's touched the cloak.
Highlights
Transcript
Show full transcript
LeeGood evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamI'm Adam.
LeeAnd we're here this evening to discuss 1998, independent classic, in my opinion, Razorblade Smile.
Leethere will be spoilers, there will be swearing, and yeah, and I, I think that's everything we need to cover, really.
Leeso before, sorry, I'm full of cold and my brain is working on about 50% at the moment, so I do apologize if I keep just forgetting what I'm supposed to be doing.
AdamDon't worry, we'll, we'll just put, we'll just put it down to age, like you do with us.
ChrisAt least we did, we did remember to actually do this tonight, so that, that was something.
LeeYeah, yeah, I remembered 20 minutes before we turned the microphones on.
ChrisThere you go. Well done.
AdamAnd...
Lee
Leeso Chris, obviously, I know this the, the format of this show has been always that you are, these will be new films to you the majority of the time, but something tells me you would very probably have seen this when you were a teenager.
ChrisAbsolutely not.
LeeOh, really?
ChrisNo. I, I mean, I, it seems surprising to me.
ChrisCuz clearly, I was watching, I was like, yeah, I absolutely should have watched this.
Chris1998, so yeah, I was 18, I was just legal enough to watch this at the time. So that would have been perfect.
ChrisBut yeah, no, like it's got everything you could want really, hasn't it, in, in a film about vampires.
ChrisAnd, you know, like it's a tongue-in-cheek, satirical view, and I think done perfectly.
ChrisAnd there's a very good twist, which really finishes the film perfectly.
LeeYes, it does. And so, just for as a very quick for anyone who hasn't seen the film, the plot of the film is it follows a sexy vampire played by Eileen Daly, who also has taken the very smart choice to also be an assassin because as she explains, she's got to kill people to live, so why not get paid to do it?
LeeIt's a, it makes perfect sense, it's a, yeah, it's a great story.
Leeyeah, and it's, it follows her, the police investigation to find her, and an occult group who are manipulating the police to try and catch her, and we don't know why.
Chris
Leeyeah, this film opened my eyes to British independent cinema. I'd never seen anything like this and it blew me away.
ChrisYeah, I could imagine that.
ChrisIf so, I'm assuming you did watch it pretty much when it was released.
LeeOh yeah, I think I saw it around 2000, 2001.
LeeNo, it must have been earlier than that. No, so it must have been around '99, I think I must have seen this.
AdamIt was probably, probably, cuz I mean it was late '98, it came out.
ChrisRight.
AdamIt got theatrical release sort of.
ChrisI was going to say, yeah, was it, it was shown in cinemas.
AdamYeah, yeah, and it, it sort of got a run up, it was released in October.
AdamSo it was like sort of, you know, Halloween, so we've got a vampire movie, you know, so that was part of the.
ChrisRight.
Adampart of the promotion as it were or whatever, but yeah, so it was probably when it went to video that you saw it, Lee.
ChrisYeah, I imagine that's rough. Yeah.
LeeWell it yeah, so so then already had it in his collection and mentioned one day that he'd seen Eileen Daly.
LeeI'm pretty sure he said she was in the Ford in Romford.
ChrisOh right.
Leeand he said, yeah, you know, the vampire from Razorblade Smile, and I said, I've not seen it.
LeeYeah, so he brought it round the next day and lent it to me, yeah, and it was one of those films, I think I watched it about three times in the first two weeks.
LeeCuz I was like, this is so different to anything I've ever seen before and it really, it really drew me in.
LeeLike the idea that people could outside of the studio system just make a film on a low budget and it'd be entertaining and fun.
LeeIt, yeah, it was so new to me that idea, yeah, and this was the only example of it I had.
LeeLike obviously, I'd seen the Trauma movies and stuff, but yeah.
AdamAmerica has a better sort of, at that point, America was pumping out a lot of independent cinema.
AdamBut yeah, this was Brit cinema very few and far between, you know, even, even had a, there was a bit of a resurgence, you know, you had like sort of stuff with like mostly Danny Boyle, actually, it was like, but yeah.
LeeYeah.
AdamFor someone to do like a completely independent horror film, at that point was pretty unheard of, yeah.
AdamAnd..
ChrisSo, was this the first time anyone heard of Eileen Daly? Had she done anything before this?
AdamI-Ileen Daly was an adult film star.
ChrisOh right, okay.
AdamAnd then she sort of, but she also was doing like modeling and so she would crop up in bizarre magazine and skin two and places like that, and she wrote for the, she was a columnist for the Dark Side magazine, like the horror, movie magazine.
AdamAnd so she was around and people knew her.
AdamAnd but this was sort of like, I think this was the first thing I saw her in, you know, like the, like a proper film.
Adamand yeah, she's, and she remains like we, we met her at, I was going to say because that's like in a way I sort of wish I'd seen this before we went to horror on C that was the first time. So you went, now you know why me and Lee were a bit starstruck.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
LeeTotally, I'd been like.
ChrisTotally, I'd been like, oh yeah, that's great.
ChrisBut I mean it was still, it was a good introduction to her.
ChrisWhat was the name of the film we watched, I cannot think of that now, Mr. Crispin? It was Mr. Crispin.
ChrisOh right.
ChrisBecause that was pretty funny.
ChrisI mean, yeah, very entertaining. Yeah, and that that was one she, she wrote and directed that herself.
ChrisOkay.
AdamSo, you know, it's there's, and she, she, she's pretty skilled. She's, she did a band called Jezebel.
AdamLike there was a sort of like metal goth rock sort of thing.
AdamApparently she's in a, she did a band or is in a band called Eileen and Ben, and they actually went on The X Factor.
LeeOh, wow.
AdamAnd did quite well, apparently.
ChrisThat's great.
AdamSo, yeah, but no, so she's sort of like she's been a figure who's been sort of like.
AdamAnd basically, one of the other things was is that there's a, there was a label called Redemption Films, which was a video, which was a video label, and it was started by, Eileen Daly and.
AdamOh, what is his name? I've, bear with me while I check my notes because I cannot for the life of me remember his name.
LeeI didn't realize she was involved in Redemption.
LeeI'm like, I knew she was in a lot. I seem to remember her being in promo, like shoots.
AdamYeah, that was that was it, yeah.
AdamYeah, Nigel Wingrove, that's it.
AdamSo, and yeah, so they started Redemption Films and basically it was a video label that at the time was releasing all the stuff that you didn't get.
Adamthat wasn't getting much of a video release, like a lot of sort of euro horror and sort of border line porn sort of horror and stuff like that.
AdamAnd, like nunsploitation films and sort of Mario Bava and Lucio Fulci and all sort of.
AdamAnd weirdly enough, they were like the first label that was kind of like, oh yeah, you can't actually see these, you know, they, they weren't getting a release over here, so they sort of started that gap and were filling that.
AdamAnd and Eileen Daly was like, basically the sort of, the logo that, Redemption Films had this really elaborate logo and it was her face in the middle of it.
AdamAnd because Redemption film like Redemption Films like they, they, Nigel Wingrove said that a lot of the films that he was releasing didn't necessarily have decent artwork or artwork that he could use or stuff like that. So what they started doing was is all of Redemption's releases are, like staged photographs with models, including like Eileen Daly was in loads of them.
AdamAnd basically, it would be a black and white, you know, sort of like artistic interpretation of the film.
AdamSo, you know, it just wasn't, wasn't necessarily like you weren't copying a scene from the film, but it was almost like you gave it a front cover.
LeeAnd they were incredible. It's got to say, like.
AdamThey were always really extraordinary.
LeeStuck so well in my mind because they were, they were always beautiful, always and they were sinister, oh yeah, they just, they were the full package, their artwork was incredible.
AdamYeah, so so she was part of Redemption and and yeah, they, I mean that was where, I mean, they released, they released some amazing stuff.
AdamThat was, do you remember, Lee, I had the video, that was the first place I got the video, which was the Clive Barker student films.
LeeYes, yes.
Adamyeah, those I can't remember what they're called now but those two the Forbidden and something else. But yeah, so they were but they they were also releasing like some really amazing horror movies that at the time you couldn't see and weren't necessarily going to show up on telly or whatever like that.
AdamAnd yeah, it was that was sort of like where I remembered her from, I think, initially.
ChrisOkay.
AdamBut but yeah, and yeah, so.
LeeSo Mr. Crispin, she did, that we saw, there's also Hollywood Betrayed, First Bite is the Deepest and Witches Can Be Bitches, which is like, that's it.
ChrisOkay.
AdamSo she's done a series of those movies where they, which are kind of like, they're like a sort of piss take of Most Haunted almost, aren't they where it's like, they go and investigate a, they're supposedly the crew that's gone there to document a supernatural event or a happening or whatever like that.
AdamAnd it sort of, it follows a lot from, the, the sort of area where Razorblade Smile is. It's that same sort of, you know, it's the same sort of comedy, it's the same sort of.
LeeIt's they're always great fun. I remember Mr. Crispin being fantastic and I'm sure I'm, I'm sure I saw Witches Can Be Bitches as well.
AdamThat might have been the following like the following year or something like that. I'm sure, yeah, cuz I'm, I'm sure she's been there she's pretty regular there anyway.
AdamBut yeah, so
AdamBut I think, yeah, that was, that was the sort of my introduction to her.
AdamAnd then Razorblade Smile, but yeah.
AdamI mean watching it, I was struck by, it got to a point where I was like, this might be too '90s for me.
Lee(chuckles)
AdamAnd you know, and I'm saying, you know, and it's not, it's not an aesthetic that does not please.
Adambut the thing that struck me with it is in no way am I saying that it's on the effects level par.
LeeYeah.
AdamShall we say.
AdamBut it predates The Matrix, it predates Underworld, which I think is even more this whole sort of, you know, the sort of leather-clad shoot 'em ups.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamAnd sort of like, you know, trying, trying to do John Woo sort of style gun fights in rubber catsuits and stuff like that.
AdamAnd Underworld in particular is very sort of comes from this, I think.
LeeTotally.
LeeI think, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And it's and, you know, as I said, that's why I was surprised Chris hadn't seen it because, as you say, those films when they came out, I really enjoyed them.
LeeBut when this came out and I was, you know, 19, 20, and still quite into Goth music and stuff, this was so me.
LeeThat was why it hit so hard, it was independent and it was British and it felt like it had been filmed around places just round the corner.
ChrisYeah.
AdamProbably was.
LeeYeah. (laughs)
Leeyeah, and it just, oh, it was, it was perfect, it was so good.
Leeyeah, and that's why it's really stuck with me. And it is one of those films that I do regularly still go back to.
LeeProbably every two, three years, this comes out and yeah, I give it another re-watch. I'm always surprised how much it holds up.
LeeAs you say, it is very '90s.
AdamIt's very '90s.
AdamI mean, I, I have to say, I haven't seen it for near enough 20 years, I think.
LeeOh, really?
AdamYeah, no, cuz I, I saw it at the time and yeah, I've, I, I actually had to go and get a copy cuz I realized I didn't own a copy of it.
Adambut,
AdamIncidentally, there is a, this is something I would be quite interested to see is apparently the, they've, by the looks of it, certainly from like credit lists on IMDB, there's a load of documentaries in the offing.
ChrisOh, interesting.
AdamAbout it that are going to go on some presumably on a DVD Blu-ray release.
LeeOh, right.
AdamBecause they they've remastered, Jake West, the director's remastered it.
AdamAnd apparently showed it at a, showed it at a horror like showed it at a horror festival last year.
AdamSo they've, I'd be interested to see it once it's been remastered to see whether, cuz I mean, there's sort of, there's, the limitations of a low budget are there, you, you know that.
AdamAnd, let's be frank, there's, it's not an across the board amazing cast. There are a, there are a few weak links here and there. Fortunately, no one actually in a major role, essentially.
ChrisSee yeah, I think on the whole they kind of work well enough. It has that real sort of feeling, especially when they're chatting in the club or pub and it's like, you know, they kind of do that those scenes well.
ChrisAnd especially, I think the dialogue's funny and, I do like the.
LeeI was going to say, those goth scenes, you are just missing in the background cuz that did look like everyone you were friends with at that time.
AdamYeah, that's again, that is why you it does seem extraordinary that you've not seen, you hadn't seen it because it was like, you could possibly show up walking around the back of it, you know.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know, this this is, let's face it, this is a film that a lot of patrons of Cyberdog in Camden saw at the time.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSo.
ChrisOh yeah. And I think I must have just been a couple of years past that.
ChrisAnd I mean, it was, well, I was off to university in 1998, so, I don't know, there's probably just some things going on.
AdamHopefully you had bigger fish to fry, young man.
LeeI hope you did.
AdamI hope you didn't squander that opportunity for further education.
Leeyou're saying about the cast as well, it's got to be said.
LeeYeah, Christopher Adamson, Jonathan Coe and, Kevin Howarth, all are really good in this.
LeeLike, they really, yeah, I mean, Christopher Adamson particularly gives such a menacing performance.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah, that was something that really struck me as I totally forgotten about him, and I think in a way there's almost like, you know, he did, he deserves, he deserves to get to play a major villain in something again.
AdamBecause I think it's sort of, he is totally committed to it, but also I feel he's got the tone, you know, he knows the, he knows the bits where it's like, no, we're doing genuine menace here.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut also, and particularly towards the end where you get the twist, and then it becomes quite playful and sort of, you know.
ChrisYeah, yeah, it's a perfect adjustment.
AdamYeah, he, and I mean, he's obviously like, cuz that's the thing as well, you have to have someone standing next to Eileen Daly in a catsuit, you have to have someone quite striking in their appearance.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSo.
Adam
Adambut yeah, and actually that was the stuff, the stuff I really enjoyed this time round, I think was the, the police stuff.
AdamI think that's the, that for me was the, the best aspects of the humor was the idea of, you know, that usually in films where it's the one cop who's gone, you know, who knows that it's a supernatural occurrence, you know, and it's almost, it's almost a bit Cold Case where everyone else is just like, yeah, really, what?
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamYou know, and I think that sort of, that's quite sort of, that's quite an those scenes, I thought worked really, really well.
AdamAnd and as you say, that was, Jonathan Coe, so as the, inspector.
AdamAnd I think yeah, those bits were really great.
AdamAnd cuz one of the guys was in, I recognized one of the coppers who was with him, showed up a lot in The Comic Strip.
LeeOh, really?
AdamLike later series of The Comic Strip, yeah.
AdamThere was a, what was it, the, yeah, Mark Kaven, who was one of the detectives when they brought, he was the guy who when they bring Lilith in and start questioning her.
AdamAnd I thought that, that, that I thought was a great, because the weird thing is is that I think that Eileen Daly, strangely enough, Eileen Daly's best stuff is actually the, the sort of, the more emotional stuff, I think she's, that's the, that's the better aspect of the performance than the sort of badassery.
Lee
AdamIf you see what I mean, you know.
AdamIt's like sort of, yeah, I think she really, when she's going through the book of faces and stuff like that.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd it's because obviously he's researched.
AdamAnd and I've been I sort of started re-watching The X Files recently. So he's very much in the Mulder and Mulder of like sort of this like, oh here's this case notes and everyone else is like, yeah, what, she's been killing people for 200 years, you know.
ChrisYeah.
AdamThat's.
Lee(chuckles)
AdamAnd, yeah, so I, I, no, I thought those, those, those aspects of it were really great.
AdamBut, but like I say, I'd be really interested to see what it looks like remastered.
AdamBecause the, the version I got was just like the old Manga DVD.
LeeThat's what I got as well.
AdamCuz yeah, cuz it was on, cuz again, another tale of a great '90s sort of or 2000s label, Manga Entertainment who were distributing all anime over here and in the States.
AdamSo again, it was like, I've already got a load of these sitting, you know, I've got a load of this label sitting there anyway.
AdamSo you, but this was apparently they put money in like afterwards, for I think mostly for the visual effects, so like the sort of and the title sequence and stuff like that.
AdamBasically Manga Entertainment were like, oh, we could move into live action.
ChrisYeah, so you say it was based on a comic book series.
ChrisSo is that why they.
AdamI no, no, there is, I think there is a comic book series of it, but it's not based on a comic book series.
AdamCuz the, cuz weirdly enough that was the only thing that I thought there was a couple of things that I thought that could predate it, and one of them was Durham Red from 2080, who was a bounty hunter who was also a vampire, so it's, you know.
AdamBut, but not, it doesn't because that's part of like the 2000 AD dog stuff. So it's not quite as.
AdamAnd actually, that was the one thing I have seen Christopher Adamson in, he's in the, Sylvester Stallone Judge Dredd.
LeeYeah, now.
LeeI was going to say this, like when you look at his film credits, I think it's, I mean, obviously he's a star in rolling this and he's smaller parts in other stuff.
LeeBut yeah, he'd been in Judge Dredd, he'd been in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves, like he's had some really big role.
LeeAnd I love the fact that he came, I think he's, I think, I think Robin Hood he just says soldier, so I don't know if that's going to be a big part of it.
LeeYeah, yeah. It might be just but yeah.
LeeBut yeah, so I mean, it's, it's good and I've seen he's done loads of stuff later as well, so I definitely, what was the one cuz I can't remember who he is in it, but he's they said he's in Legend.
AdamWhat was the one cuz I can't remember who he is in it, but he's they said he's in Legend.
AdamLike the, that's the one with Tom Hardy as the Kray Twins, not Tom Cruise and, right, the Devil.
LeeRight.
LeeAnd he's in Leatherface in 2017. So, it's good to say, see, he's still getting roles,
LeeYeah, but yeah, I thought he was excellent and I thought it was perfectly cast as well. He's that cuz he works on both of those levels.
LeeSo, so the twist we should probably, yeah, I think we've gone far enough for a spoiler.
ChrisI was wondering, like, how, you, you both seem to say, you know, it can be re-watched and enjoyed as much. Cuz I was like, I mean, that's big enough twist and the fact they held it to the end.
ChrisSo, yeah, now you can say it, Lee, and.
LeeYeah.
LeeSo, so the twist is that he and Lilith have known each other for centuries and this is just a game they play where they, it's basically role-playing for vampires, and the whole thing has just been a game, with lots of people dying very violently in order for them to have a bit of a laugh.
AdamIt's basically role-playing for vampires.
LeeBut it, it's that, that's a thing, so he plays such a terrifying, powerful character.
LeeBut then to see that love when the two of them come back together, like he manages to do that really well.
AdamHe does. Yeah, he does the sort of affectionate side of it of the once the pretense is gone and everything else like that.
AdamAnd actually.
ChrisAnd it seems so believable at that point, whereas you would have thought that could have seemed really stupid, but it's like, oh no, that totally makes sense.
ChrisAnd yet also, I don't think it was obvious there wasn't anything that gave it away throughout, even though it seemed so obvious when they.
AdamYeah, cuz I don't, I don't think they put it in there. You get flashbacks to how she became a vampire because he turned her into a vampire.
ChrisYeah, and that makes sense, you're like, I believe that, yeah, sure. Yeah, they they they they, they're actually, they're actually together and you know, it's and yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, like I say, I mean, I think anyone coming to it, I mean it's, I think it was something like, I think they made it for about 20 grand, or like filmed it for about 20 grand, that's great, isn't it?
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamThat's great.
LeeThat's great, isn't it?
AdamI mean.
LeeThat's a lot of film for 20 grand.
AdamStrangely enough.
AdamI had to look it up cuz I wanted to see if that translated, that's still only 40 grand now, which admittedly, if anyone's got only 40 grand, I'll take it off them.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know, I'll be quite happy with 40 grand.
AdamBut it really does not make a film.
LeeBut to make a film and probably even less so nowadays. Yeah, and it's so influential, as you said, you know, things like Underworld and everything, definitely took. The Matrix is too close. I think that that and I know that that aesthetic mainly come from came from the same inspirations, it's basically from hanging around goth clubs listening to Ministry, that's it.
AdamThe Matrix is too close. I think that that and I know that that aesthetic mainly come from came from the same inspirations, it's basically from hanging around goth clubs listening to Ministry.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd so I you know, so I get the Matrix is like a sort of parallel to it.
AdamBut Underworld, I really feel is like, yeah, you just, you saw this and just thought, right, we can do that but with real like with good effects for the guns.
LeeBigger budget, yeah.
AdamYeah, we, we can get a fight choreographer in rather than, right, just hack at each other with two with the swords and we'll, we'll go from there, you know.
LeeSo that's the only thing with this that hasn't aged well, but again, it's, it's not because of the film.
LeeIt's because of the time is that they obviously introduced a lot of CGI into it for the, for the background sequences and stuff.
Leewhich hasn't aged well, but again, that's the, this is the issue. When you've got a super modern technology that's only just come out and you're doing it on a budget, it isn't going to age. But at the same time, this doesn't look any worse than fucking Spawn, which cost an absolute fortune. And this is this is the point, weirdly enough, I think like in terms of the CGI, the CGI just looks like, that's the points where it's like, oh, I can music videos.
AdamAnd this is this is the point, weirdly enough, I think like in terms of the CGI, the CGI just looks like, that's the points where it's like, oh, I can music videos.
LeeYeah.
AdamDo you know what I mean? like there's just sort of bits in there where it's like, it's, it's very, I actually I saw that the, the company who did the visual effects for it, The Mill, who ended up doing, the Revive series of Doctor Who. So I didn't realize they'd actually been going that long doing like CGI and stuff like that.
AdamAnd obviously it sort of moved, moved on somewhat.
AdamBut yeah, those sort of, cuz it just, they just feel like, you know, like cheap metal videos that you'd see in 1998, you know.
AdamIt's sort of, they're they're not, they're not too bad. I I it's unfortunate and again, I know it's a budget thing, but you can see a lot of day for night shooting, but again, so hammer, it's just fucking expensive to shoot at night.
LeeYeah.
LeeAnd it's at night and everyone's wearing black PVC, you're not going to see fuck all unless you.
AdamYou're not going to be able to light it in in a decent a way as you can. And I think actually, I think the flashback footage is shot really well.
LeeThat looks awesome.
AdamStill looks really, really good.
AdamWhat it weird thing is, I think it's also, it's also worth, cuz I've been watching those sort of spin-off stuff that they started doing straight to video when Doctor Who got canceled.
AdamAnd this ain't too far in terms of, I mean, this is, this is higher budget than those were. I mean, that's how cheap they are.
AdamBut I don't think it's no, it doesn't look any worse than that. And a lot of that stuff, it still feels like 90s tele. You know, if you've watched that, that's, it doesn't look, you know, there it doesn't look poor for its time.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah, this, this would have, this was cutting edge when it came out.
AdamYeah, when it came out. It's got a lot more, yeah.
LeeYeah, so it's only it's actual age that's dated it and not the fact that it was done obviously on a much lower budget.
LeeAs I say, than something like Spawn, which is a massive Hollywood film, it looks so much worse than this.
AdamSo, yeah, and I think I think they they there's, I mean, and weird and also not only that, but also when you get into the thing of.
AdamOh, the grand conspiracy is the Illuminati, it's like, hello the '90s.
Lee(chuckles)
AdamThere you are.
AdamYou know.
AdamIt sort of just, but again, I think for its time that was sort of the zeitgeist, you know, that was part of it, it wasn't as cliched as it is now.
ChrisI know, but that's so funny in it to think at the time people would have been like, oh yeah, and now like how quickly they've just disappeared, like they're not doing much anymore.
AdamAnd this film would have introduced people to the concept of the Illuminati.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd I think that, I mean, cuz I mean, by the way, I just, just the other day on Instagram, I got a message from the Illuminati saying that they really like my stuff and would I like to join them.
LeeOh, you love it.
AdamSo long, bitches.
LeeI had one of them. Yeah. It's come out years ago. I forgot all about it.
ChrisEither you're on your way up or or they're on their way down.
AdamI was going to say, yeah, this is if they're recruiting me, they're shit.
LeeLook at me here in my 10-pound Tesco's Halloween T-shirt and you know where all that money's going.
AdamNo, I think it sort of, there's still a part of me that has an affection for it, I think.
AdamBecause it's very, I just admire the spirit of it.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd actually the thing is Jake West who directed it, has made some, I mean, he's made other films because he did, oh crap, what's it called? Evil Aliens.
LeeOh, yeah, that was great fun.
LeeYes, that was really fun.
AdamYeah, so you see again, it's very much in the in a similar sort of vein. he also did Doghouse.
AdamWhich was a Danny Dyer film that, I'll be frank, never saw cuz it looked shit.
Adambut he also did the third Pumpkinhead film.
LeeWhat?
Adamand there's a, an anthology that I've never seen called Midnight Peep Show that he did a segment for, and he did a segment for ABC's of Death.
Adambut the the thing I really love, Jake West has made some fucking incredible documentaries.
LeeOh, really?
AdamThe yeah, cuz he did the video nasties moral panic one that came out on three discs.
AdamAnd then the follow-up video nasties Draconian days, which weirdly enough, just out of the blue, me and Claire had watched like maybe a month or so ago. And yeah, his documentaries I, to be honest, that's where I hope he keeps going. Cuz you know, I think, but he also did the documentary that's on the Extro DVD, so, Extro Blu-ray, so and.
AdamHe's also done one that I didn't know was him but I really wanted to see it anyway, which is, Mancunian Man, the legendary life of Cliff Twemlow, which was who was a, apparently he's like some northern nightclub bouncer who just made a load of independent like action and horror films and stuff like that.
LeeOh, nice.
Adamso but yeah, and he also is the, he runs the DVD label Nucleus.
LeeOh, okay.
AdamAnd so there's a lot of, oh, and he's, I think he produces Stark Raving Cinema podcast, which I've listened to a few of that, that's a pretty good show.
AdamAnd, but yeah, the, yeah, Nucleus Films who again, it's like, I've got quite a few of their releases and they're always like more obscure stuff. And actually, some documentary stuff as well, like horror documentaries.
AdamSo that's definitely where, you know, that's that's another string to Jake West that I think is really interesting and they and yeah, I heartily recommend those, video nasties documentaries cuz they're just so well put together.
AdamAnd speaking to all the right people.
AdamBecause yeah, you know, it's just.
AdamI mean, he's got the connections, so, you know, that'd be that'd be why.
Adam
AdamAnd and the other thing that we've got is, David Warbeck is, you know, the pathologist horror movie guy, cuz that's because that for a minute feels like a weird thing where you're like, this guy's getting a lot of air time here. And then I realized it was David Warbeck, who's in like the Beyond and, like quite a few '70s like horrors and stuff like that, and yeah, sci-fi and things.
AdamBut
AdamBut yeah, so and again, I think that's just like, oh, well, we'll get, that's, that's the old horror star that we get into this.
AdamThat sort of yeah, you know, it's almost like you always, always with British independent films, I love the fact that there's always like, right, we want to get a, we want to get a touchstone in, we want to get someone who's, who's been there, who's touched the cloak.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
LeeYeah, no.
LeeAbsolutely.
Leeyeah, so this is a massive recommend for me, I say I it opened a whole new world of of cinema. And as I say, it did everything I wanted at the time, I loved that goth scene, and I loved vampires, and metal and women with guns and it, and it did it all.
ChrisStill does quite a lot now.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisI am, I'm definitely going to check out more Eileen Daly.
ChrisWhat, what would be the next one to go for?
AdamThere's a very good electric blue I saw once.
Lee(chuckles)
AdamAnd I, and I mean that.
ChrisWell, if you if you recommend it.
AdamYeah, I, I do, yeah.
LeeIf you've got to watch it as part of the show, Chris, then you know, you've got to watch it as part of the show.
AdamAgain, I would have the caveat about budgetary restraints, but, you know, I think.
Leejust very quickly before we sign off.
LeeI just wanted to say if this gets out to people in time, I don't know when the exhibition finishes, but I went this weekend because we're recording this on November 2nd.
LeeSo I went yesterday to Selfridges in Oxford Street, they're doing an exhibition of a lot of the costumes and props from the Guillermo del Toro Frankenstein that's has been out at the cinema and is hitting Netflix in five days.
ChrisOh yeah.
Leeif you get a chance to go to the exhibition, it's incredible.
Leeyou get one hour to go around it, but that's plenty of time because there's no filler. It's just incredible costumes, fantastic bits and scenes and yeah, it's just, it's great, it's really good.
Leeit's a free thing, you just have to book your time slot. yeah, and it's in Selfridges, so it's, it's not hard to get to.
LeeBut yeah, in Selfridges itself, which it doesn't tell you, behind Selfridges, you have to go out of the food court and follow the building round and there's like an exhibition room behind it. I don't know if it's storage or what they normally do with it, but it's not in the building itself.
LeeBut yeah, I was the third person in the queue at the cinema, cuz they've got a cinema in Selfridges, so when we got there, there was no post sign post for it or anything.
LeeBut I saw that it was showing in the cinema, so I went to the cinema, yeah, and then realized that the two people who'd been stood in front of me in the queue for the cinema who had then spoken to the lady and walked out, were also about to go in looking for their tickets on their phones as we got there.
LeeSo.
LeeThat's.
LeeWhere it is, but yeah, it was really good and I haven't seen the film yet. Obviously, Guillermo del Toro and Frankenstein, I'm really excited for it, but yeah, this has absolutely peaked my excitement and I'm so keen to see it. It looks absolutely phenomenal.
LeeSo.
LeeSo, go and check those out.
Leewe'll be back in a fortnight's time where we'll be doing what we've been watching.
Leeit's been the Halloween period, so I'm hoping people have been watching lots of exciting Halloween stuff. I've been shit this year and I've gotten through maybe three or four films.
LeeWhereas normally, I'd do about 30, but I think that's a new job that takes up way more of my time.
AdamI'll I'll be honest, I think that this year for Halloween, it's basically been, I've stumbled into Halloween and anything that I've done that's Halloween related, I would have been doing anyway if it just if it was a Tuesday. You know, I'm watching a, I'm watching a horror film, I'm doing that anyway.
LeeBut yes, so go and check out Razorblade Smile, go and check out the Guillermo del Toro Frankenstein exhibit if you can.
LeeIf not, watch the film cuz it looks like it's going to be, I mean, it's going to be good, isn't it?
LeeIf you're going to put that in anyone's hands, he's the person I'd trust more than anybody.
AdamI'm I'm hoping it'll be good, yeah.
AdamI think, yeah.
LeeSo.
LeeSo go and check those out, go and check out Razorblade Smile.
LeeAnd, and we will see you all in a fortnight's time for what we've been watching.
LeeThanks very much.
LeeGood night.
ChrisGood night.
AdamAll right.
