Phantasm
00:38:22
About
We’re sticking with the work of Don Coscarelli, and going back to the classic that made his name; “Phantasm”. A film in which Angus Scrimm shows that, despite being older, he can still shoot his balls round corners; we learn how to make some of the most dangerous improvised explosives outside of the Anarchist’s Cookbook; and we meet a Jawa with a porn-moustache. Coscarelli’s third feature film, made independently over 2 years with a cast and crew of mostly friends and family, would go on to be a staple of the horror section in video shops for the next decade, with its striking poster image (entirely unrelated to anything in the actual film) burned into the minds of a generation. Unlike a lot of its VHS counterparts; “Phantasm” is an utterly unique beast; a horror/sci fi hybrid with surreal set pieces and a mythology that obfuscates the more it reveals; coupled to a domestic coming-of-age story of two orphaned brothers (and their singing Ice Cream Man buddy). It would follow the route of successful 80s horrors in spawning a franchise, but this too would be unlike any others, with (mostly) the same cast returning each time, the story being picked up pretty much from where the last film left off, and lore explorations that again only deepen the mystery. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
You play a good game boy, but the game is finished. Now you die!
Famous lines
- "Beware the ball, beware the tall man, beware the never dead."
- "BOYYYYY!!!"— The Tall Man
- "The funeral is about to begin... Sir!"— The Tall Man
- "If this one doesn't scare you, you're already dead!"
Quotes verified against Wikiquote.
Survive
Survive the Mausoleum
How long can you evade The Tall Man's sphere?
Transcript
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LeeGood evening and welcome to Horror, I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamAnd I'm Adam. Booy.
LeeAnd we are here again this evening with spoilers and swearing to discuss 1979's Phantasm.
Leea film in which there's some strange goings on at a cemetery including a tall man, some jawas, and a woman with strange boobs.
LeeBut it it turns into something far more sinister because our protagonist is one of the creepiest people to have ever been on film, but we'll we'll get to Michael in a bit.
Lee
LeeBefore we get into that, Chris, what did you make of your first viewing of this movie?
ChrisFortunately, I did watch the correct Phantasm.
ChrisBut I don't know that I know any more than I would have done if I'd watched the other one.
ChrisThere's a, it's quite a surreal.
ChrisI mean, am I asleep, am I dreaming?
ChrisOr is it all really happening?
AdamIt does play a lot on that, yeah.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisAnd quick shout out to the the music, which
Chrisis it a bit of a bit of tubular bells?
AdamIt sounds like tubular bells going on maybe mixed with with Carpenter.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSort of.
ChrisKind of.
AdamYeah, that's a guy called Fred Miro and I fucking love that piece of music.
AdamIt is just
ChrisIt is so.
AdamYeah, it's it's really it really reminds me of like Goblin, so it is that sort of tubular-bellsy sort of sounds.
AdamBut also you've got the sort of like choir pads and stuff like that, and.
ChrisIt really does set the atmosphere.
AdamIt really, really does.
LeeYeah, definitely.
AdamBecause they because because it's credited Fred Miro and Malcolm Seagrove, but Malcolm Seagrove basically what we would now call a sound designer on it.
AdamOkay.
AdamAnd he does like the sound of the spheres and the gateway and sort of and everything, you know, so he's more that end of it, but yeah.
ChrisThe spheres are pretty weird.
AdamOh, mate, yeah.
LeeThere's a lot of imagery in this film that works really well, whether the story works or not.
LeeIt's something we'll get into later, but it's definitely got a lot of really good ideas.
LeeA lot of really sinister imagery in it, which I think is good.
LeeSo, so so that works for you, Chris.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
ChrisI you know, assuming I do know what's going on, which, as you just suggested, I don't know if I definitely do, but
Chrisyou know, is it is it that there's really a guy doing some weird stuff with some other world realm and what do you call them, jawas who were were dead people, or is it I mean is it partially Mike dealing with death and these are his fever dreams to do with his parents having died and his brother having died.
AdamHis or his brother leaving him, yes, of like and then it yeah.
LeeI think that's why we haven't covered it, I know we said, you know, last week when we said, oh, how come we've never covered this?
LeeI think I know the reason we've never covered it.
LeeLike I don't can't decide how I feel about it.
LeeAnd I don't think I ever have.
LeeIt's one of those films, like I've seen it a lot.
LeeI've seen it loads of times.
Leeso it does come off the shelf quite often.
LeeBut I think the end upsets me.
LeeI don't like the end and I
ChrisAt first I was like,
ChrisWho is he talking to, is it definitely, I mean, it looked like it was Reggie, I was like, am I definitely getting this?
ChrisLike, because I'm pretty sure I just saw him.
LeeYeah.
LeeSo he was dead.
LeeSo if it was all a dream and his brother's really dead and everything that we've just seen was all just a dream.
LeeWhy is the tall man then there at the end?
LeeLike it doesn't make any sense.
LeeAnd it drives me wild.
AdamYeah.
AdamSee, this is the this is the sort of shit that excites me, because I just love that level of obscurity.
Adamespecially because it kind of is a proper horror film.
LeeDefinitely.
AdamIn the initial stages and the tall man is a proper horror.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut then it goes fucking mad.
AdamAnd you've got and then it becomes sci-fi, but not in it's it's hinting at it.
ChrisIt's hinting at it.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt's kind of like there's it's kind of like that sort of thing of it's like Scooby-Doo, but in Scooby-Doo, it's like, oh, there can't really be a vampire monster.
AdamAnd it turns out to be a guy in disguise who's using it and everything.
AdamWhereas this is like, oh, he can't really be an undead sort of like stranger.
AdamOh, no, he's from another dimension and actually what he's doing is he's kidnapping the dead, shrinking them so that they will fit in his high gravity environment and pushing them through a tuning fork that branches across realities.
LeeBut again, the problem with that is,
LeeThen if and I got that, they were shrinking them down because of the gravity on the planet.
LeeSo why is the tall man, the tallest man ever?
ChrisOh, yeah.
LeeHe can't come from there, is he just coming here?
ChrisHe's got special powers.
LeeI mean he has because he manages to to turn into.
LeeSo he's definitely something.
ChrisTurn into a.
Leesupernatural or alien woman.
ChrisI like the fact that he he waited till the end.
Chrisof of the session to turn back into the guy to stab him.
AdamThere is a there is a sort of question there that you hope that it's a fully physical transformation and not just a glamour.
AdamAnd they are shagging Angus Scrimm.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd not realizing.
LeeI should have known that that woman wasn't really that woman from the fact of her unnatural positioning.
LeeWhen she's laying with that Andy Nyman look alike right at the very beginning, her her legs are front down laying as if she's laying on top of him facing him.
LeeBut then every time it cuts to his face, she's upright as if she's sitting on him, I was like, so she's bending at her hips backwards.
ChrisShe's got some good contortion skills.
LeeLike that's not right.
LeeThere's something going on there.
LeeI mean, that's a problem for the start.
AdamI I love I also love the fact that they've they've given Andy Nyman as you called him, they've given him distinctive facial hair so you can realize that it's him shrunk into a goblin.
AdamYes, halfway through the film, you know.
AdamAnd again, I love that when it's like.
AdamIt it's like that's the thing I love like I'm saying the Scooby-Doo thing is because it's kind of like here's explanations, but they're more fucking weird than what we thought was going on initially.
AdamAnd similarly with that, it's like we're being chased by a driverless car. Oh, no, it is being driven by like a shrunk down human being who can't see over the fucking steering wheel.
AdamAnd you're like,
Adamthat's more mental.
AdamThat's more insane and strange and I just, yeah, I can't help it.
LeeIt did make me laugh that bit with the car as well.
LeeWhen he jumps out the roof with the shotgun, he's like, I'm going to nail this bastard.
LeeI was like, nobody in there.
LeeWhat are you going to shoot, like you've just said nobody's driving this car.
LeeAnd then immediately, I'm going to kill him.
LeeWho are you going to kill, the car?
LeeWhat are you doing?
AdamWell, he does aim at the engine block, so, but yeah, he does seem to personify that car as as it's driver in a way.
AdamAlso, that's the other thing as well that I just I always forget that it's really oddly like irresponsible.
AdamIn the way that a 13 year old being brought up by his 20 year old brother with, you know, they've they've got money and time on their hands.
AdamSo, yeah.
AdamThere's there's a lot of guns knocking about the shop and the improvised explosive that he makes out of a fucking shotgun shell.
LeeThe whole time I was watching that, I was like, that someone has got to think, put in a pin in the bottom of a shotgun cartridge and then banging it on a desk with your hand.
LeeI was like, he should have blown his hand up.
LeeAnd I wish he had, because that character, the actor's very good, that character is the most annoying human being I've possibly ever seen on TV.
LeeHe drives me up the fucking.
LeeI know he's supposed to be our protagonist.
LeeBut I hate everything about the character.
AdamHe's awful.
AdamHe he's I I he's definitely annoying as well.
AdamYou you do sort of sit there and sympathize with Jody and you're like.
Adamfuck sake, yeah, just.
AdamI just want to play guitar with the ice cream man.
AdamAre you just leave it.
AdamI'm I'm trying to sleep, I'm trying to sleep with an undead mortician disguised as a woman, will you not run out the bushes, please?
LeeOh, that's right.
LeeWhen you're talking about the bit when they're on the porch and he's got that tuning folk that's in the key of foreshadowing.
AdamYeah.
LeeYeah, I caught that with that.
AdamThat said, in fairness, the first time that someone sees this, there is no way that that foreshadowing would be you you would decrypt that.
ChrisYeah, anything from.
AdamYou know what I mean, it's not like sort of like.
ChrisAside from it seeming quite an odd like there's something there, but.
AdamYeah, it's quite.
AdamOh, and once again, it's like, oh, it's quite odd.
AdamOh, the explanation is far odder.
ChrisIt's true.
AdamYeah, right.
AdamOkay, thanks.
AdamThat's.
AdamTop top work.
AdamI do get that sort of thing, I think that's one of the things I like with it is I do get that feeling that it's again, if you encountered something supernatural or something alien or pan-dimensional.
AdamYeah, it'd be really fucking weird and confusing and.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamThere was like, yeah, and then his fingers turned into an insect.
ChrisYeah.
AdamHey.
LeeYou know.
LeeI always forget that.
LeeThat is such a weird random.
LeeBut again, it it fits with this film because it's.
LeeIt's got so many ideas and it just throws them out and it goes, I don't doesn't matter if they don't yell together.
LeeJust throw it all in.
LeeAnd it and and I mean, obviously, there was an element of that in the 70s, like films that if these films were made now, everyone would tear them to pieces because they want a level of realism.
LeeBut films like this and The Gate and films like that, they are just mental and you do just go with it for some reason.
AdamThis I think it would get it would get lauded a lot more for its inventiveness if it was Italian.
AdamYes, people would go down that because a lot of Italian.
Adamhorror is very sort of jump and jumpy and multi-realities and you know, it's like we're piling on effects here.
AdamBut not necessarily in any rational way to the plot or whatever.
AdamAnd but also I think also if you release this now, you do it in black and white and release it on A24.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd they and you know.
AdamAnd people would be like, oh, this is.
Adamthis is incredible.
AdamYou know.
AdamI think that's the thing is I don't think it gets the credit for being fucking a nice like absolutely surreal fucking thing.
AdamIt's its own myth.
AdamIt's not drawing on anything, you know, it's not.
AdamOh, it it doesn't even work as like, oh, it's an alien film.
AdamBut it's not any alien film you've ever fucking seen, it's not Fire in the Sky or.
AdamBody snatchers or something.
LeeNo, and that.
LeeAnd and and when he goes to see the old woman, the old fortune teller.
LeeAnd they just have this who who apparently is from Dune because she's got a black box that you put your hand in for no reason.
LeeLike, none of that has any reason being in this film.
LeeBut you just go with it.
ChrisI assume that was a tribute to Dune.
AdamYes.
ChrisI was thinking, I'm pretty sure this was after.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah.
LeeAnd the bar was called.
AdamYes, it's after the book, but obviously it's before anyone actually made a film of Dune.
AdamSo it's coming from the book at this point.
AdamBut also if you're talking about things that ripped off Dune, just an interesting little note, Captain Phasma in the later trilogy is called Phasma because she JJ Abrams named her after the spheres from Phantasm.
AdamBecause she's like she's like a mirror suit, she's.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisIt's pretty cool.
AdamYeah.
Adambut but yeah, no, I knew you'd spot the but but also the.
Adambar where Jody drinks is called June's Cantina, so it's I think it's definitely in there.
AdamIt's like, no, I know what I'm doing.
AdamBut also, yeah, it sort of that at that point, that was just a lot of very literate stoners nodding along in the cinema.
AdamRather than sort of people had seen the the the blockbuster version, you know.
LeeYeah, so it's it's and it's a strange pacing as well, I always find with this film.
LeeIt's it's a very short film, but it somehow feels longer than it is.
LeeNot in a in a boring way, but it feels like a lot of story goes in and there's a lot of different twists and turns, yeah, for under an hour and a half.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah, because I it is a lot.
AdamYeah, there's a lot packed in.
AdamYou know, and and not.
AdamAnd quite like very.
ChrisAnd a lot to unpack.
AdamDisjointed in a way because you're like.
AdamBecause it's a really weird version of the cop out of oh, it was all just a dream.
AdamAnd then as you're saying, then they just flip it at the end and it's like, no, this is the this isn't the dream, this is really happening.
ChrisI liked it when his brother says, Jody says, oh, look up the house title or something.
ChrisAnd it's like, I'm thinking,
ChrisI think you're going to need to put up some serious boarding on those windows and yeah, just just straight through, no problem.
AdamAlso, I mean, I love that, I mean, even down to that, like I said, there's a there's that weirdly sort of.
AdamI think now if you made this, this would get a high rating more on the basis of imitable behavior for a like for a young teenager.
AdamOf like, oh, yeah, no, I'll just sit up all night with a shotgun under me arm, you know, when Jody comes in and has to like.
AdamI'm not going to make him.
AdamI'm not going to wake him up.
LeeYeah.
AdamBecause I think he might be a bit jumpy.
LeeRight.
LeeWell,
Leewhat do you expect?
LeeHe spends the his daytimes joy riding around the cemetery between the gravestones on a motorbike.
LeeLike he's a dick.
LeeThis kid is a nightmare.
LeeAnd then he's and then he just spies on his brother.
LeeWhich is really.
LeeLike I mean that's like that is full on stalking for his brother, isn't it?
LeeThat's proper wrong.
Leeyeah.
LeeNo wonder his brother wants to move away.
LeeThey drive you mad.
AdamAgain, I think we get to that like we said about with Nope, you know, is that it's an again.
AdamIt's weird to have that family dynamic in something.
AdamWhere it's just like the like the older and younger brother.
AdamAnd and again, it's like, well, it's literally the only reason they'd be hanging around because if Jody wasn't related to Mike, he would have had him arrested or kicked his fucking ass.
AdamTold him to fuck off.
AdamWho are you, mate?
LeeBut I mean, he's the only one who can fix the car by the looks of it.
AdamYeah.
LeeAnd I'm sure that car is only in there because this is one of those films that I always watch.
LeeAnd it starts off and it's everyone's haircuts and everyone's clothes.
LeeAnd I get about 15 minutes in, I'm like, I hate everything about the 70s.
LeeNothing good ever came out of the 70s, and then that Barracuda turns out every time I go, oh, that's so pretty.
AdamI knew the I knew the car would be the selling point, so.
Adambut I can assure you because I've I've got the the marvelous Arrow box set that comes with a sphere.
Adamon Blu-ray.
AdamAnd I decided, right, that's it.
AdamCuz I hadn't seen, I don't think I've I don't think I've ever seen anything past two.
AdamThe box set's been sitting there and I was like, right, I'm doing the lot.
AdamCan I assure you that in terms of mythology and things, you know, within the story, they reveal a lot.
ChrisOh, okay.
AdamAnd.
AdamIt makes less sense.
AdamIt's fucking.
AdamIt's it's like everything they do is almost like,
AdamSo now you know what's inside the sphere.
AdamRight, okay, I'm not going to spoil it for you.
AdamBut it's like, once you know what's inside the sphere.
AdamI was like, well, of course it fucking is.
AdamOkay, right, come on, crack on.
AdamThis is you're still a weird film.
AdamAnd you still have that sort of reality problem, you know.
LeeIt's sort of.
LeeI'm definitely, I'd say I.
LeeI think I might have seen two but nothing else.
LeeBut it was a very long time ago.
LeeBut I've got your old box set, Adam, because when you pulled the Arrow one, you gave me your old box set, didn't you?
LeeYeah.
LeeAnd this has prompted me, I am going to go and watch the other films.
ChrisWhat, so how many are there?
AdamThere's five in total.
ChrisFive including the recent one.
AdamSo, yeah.
AdamSo you've got, obviously you've got Phantasm 79, you've got Phantasm, then 88 they do Phantasm 2 and Jody's not in it and they've recast Michael.
ChrisIt's quite a long quite a long time between.
AdamYes, so there's quite a long time.
AdamIt's a different actor and basically it was because.
ChrisOkay.
Adam
AdamA Michael Baldwin, A Michael Baldwin.
AdamYes.
AdamNot D Michael Baldwin, the woods are full of them.
Adam
AdamHe he basically he'd retired from acting.
AdamSo Universal were backing Phantasm 2, so they said, I, we want a working actor in like someone who's actually currently an actor.
AdamNot someone who'd just be returning because they've given up.
AdamYou know, not given up, but retired, he'd gone on to like he's he's an acting teacher now.
Adam
LeeHe's very that's what I've said earlier.
LeeHe's a very good actor, it's the character that's annoying.
AdamCharacter's bloody annoying.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut that's the thing so, so they replaced him in two.
AdamAnd Jody's dead.
AdamBut the way they sort of do it is that at the end of the first film, Reggie was basically trying to get Michael to go like leave it.
AdamBy sort of saying to him, oh, it was all a dream and you've just imagined it and everything so that he wouldn't get hurt, basically.
AdamAnd and then he has to rescue him for.
AdamLiterally, it comes in from the start of the film.
AdamSo you've got the original Michael in there in this sort of flashback reality.
AdamAnd then it's cut to, seven years later.
ChrisRight.
AdamAnd there's a different there's a different guy playing him.
AdamAnd then you get Phantasm 3, Lord of the Dead in 1994.
AdamSo again, there's quite a big gap, there's like six years between that.
Adamand Mike's back, like the original Mike is back playing him.
AdamSo he after after that Michael Baldwin comes out of retirement to do Phantasm films.
AdamBut other than that, he's a working like acting teacher, so he's not, you know, he's not he's not an actor.
AdamHe's but yeah, he comes out retirement and does them.
AdamAnd actually, it's really weird to see him older.
AdamEven though and I think it's because you like when I was watching them, I didn't quite realize the timeline that was going on.
AdamBecause it's like.
ChrisThat's what I was wondering.
AdamYou know, he he is noticeably older.
AdamYou know, and and and he would be because he is old.
AdamAnd also standing next to Reggie who, you know.
AdamBald men don't age.
ChrisYeah.
AdamI mean, the the the ponytail, yes, that ages.
AdamBut no, but like the, you know.
AdamSo he Reggie doesn't look much different.
Adambut then also they introduce other characters, they introduce Jody comes back because again, the guy who plays Jody, Bill Thornberry is a musician.
AdamThat's his own song that they play on the porch.
ChrisOh, I didn't wonder.
ChrisBecause they they did seem decent, so it's like.
AdamYeah, Reggie Bannister who plays who plays Reggie, is also a
Adammusician as well, I mean he's he's an actor primarily, but he's released like albums and stuff.
AdamBut yeah, Michael sorry, Bill Thornberry again comes back to acting to be in Phantasm films, but other than that, he's a working musician and like songwriter and stuff.
AdamAnd
AdamSo, yeah, so Phantasm 3 comes along.
AdamAnd so you've got the original Mike's back and Jody comes back, but Jody is now a sphere who can who can project himself.
AdamLike who who sort of can project a human form but basically has to keep turning back into a sphere.
AdamAnd basically.
ChrisAnd going and killing people.
AdamHe basically becomes Al to Reggie's Dr. Sam Beckett from Quantum Leap.
AdamHe can basically appear and talk to him and advise him, but that's it, he's not really.
ChrisOkay.
AdamYeah, like I say, it it gets fucking stranger.
AdamThen you've got Phantasm 4 Oblivion and that uses because when they filmed the original Phantasm, they had about six different endings that they filmed.
Chris
AdamSo they used those in Phantasm 4 as flashbacks.
AdamSo there's all new bits of the original Phantasm film in that, which is really good because obviously it's the same actors but looking younger and it's of the time, so it really is great.
Adamand that was 98, and then in 2016 they did Phantasm Ravager, which is the first one that Don Coscarelli doesn't.
ChrisOh, okay.
AdamHe writes and produces it, but he doesn't direct it.
AdamSo another guy comes along and does that.
AdamIf I'm honest, the one thing I will say is that I think the Phantasm films could be a brilliant study for someone of the progression of horror cinema through the 80s.
Chris
AdamBecause so 79 it's basically the 80s.
AdamBut it just like you say, it's clearly the 70s because everyone looks like they're in the full guy and you know.
AdamIs.
AdamBut you're sort of getting into that video era of this is one of those films like we said was a video shop staple, that's where we all sort of saw it originally and stuff.
AdamAnd then but then by the time you get to 88, obviously it's got better production values and stuff like that, but it's also sort of added different elements and things.
AdamAnd then then you've got 94 and 98 and they feel so 94 and 98 in terms of the production and horror and everything else like that.
AdamAnd then in 2016 you get one that's not the original director but it's a fan, so it feels like when they did like Halloween 2018 and things like that.
AdamBut also the great thing is apart from number two where Mike is Mike's replaced and Jody isn't in it at all.
AdamYou have the same cast.
ChrisYes, all of them.
AdamAnd again, that's a real rarity with like a horror franchise where you've got.
AdamYou know, pretty much everyone's come back and well, everyone's come back and no one's been canceled as far as I'm aware, so it's like, you know.
AdamI think it's pretty good going as in terms of like.
AdamLike a sort of production to be that consistent.
AdamBut also.
ChrisAnd what were the budgets like?
AdamIt's so woefully mad.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou you're not building a mythology, you're obscuring a mythology.
AdamThat's what you're doing.
AdamYou're you're just getting this weirder and fucking weirder, guys.
AdamI love you for it, you know, so.
AdamSo,
ChrisSo it doesn't get explained to a point of normalcy even by the end of of the fifth.
AdamNo, no.
AdamIt's it basically.
AdamI mean, you you get interesting things in there.
AdamYou find out that you find out there's someone who looked like the tall man.
AdamWho might have created a dimensional gate and then possibly that became the template for the infraction of the alien entity that inhabits the tall man.
AdamYeah, it's.
ChrisOkay.
AdamI mean, I love it because I'm it's the sort of it's it's mad.
AdamBut has a mythology, but it's one that you can barely grasp.
AdamAnd I really like that.
AdamI just sort of think it's just.
AdamYeah, it just it just does it for me.
AdamI mean, that the the lovely thing I think with it as well is you've got this going back to the original.
AdamIs that mausoleum, I think they go in later films, they go and film at real mausoleums and everything.
AdamAnd it just doesn't have the look of that.
AdamI mean, it's clearly bubble paper on cardboard, you know.
AdamIt's not.
AdamAmazing, but it's got it's it's really got a look to it and a style to it.
AdamAnd it's it's genuinely gothic, but not in the sort of castles and rampart sort of way.
AdamIt's just that what it presents of itself.
AdamAnd I mean, the tall man is a tall blow, it's a 6'4 man in lifts in a tight suit.
AdamIt's like, you know what I mean, it's not but somehow it's the fucking best look for this.
AdamYeah, and the and I think the effects work really holds up.
AdamI mean, the spheres look great.
LeeThey do look fantastic, yeah, yeah.
AdamAnd I mean that was that was like, obviously some of it's wires.
AdamAnd even on the Blu-ray, you can't really see where it's wire shots and stuff like that.
AdamBut also one of the crew was a baseball pitcher, so they used to just get him to throw it, yeah, like stunt spheres past the camera and then they'd reverse it.
AdamThat's how they do all those like the thing zooming down the corridor.
AdamIt's literally that basic, it's a guy throwing it.
AdamBecause it's like Don Coscarelli's third film and he's like about 22 or whatever when they started making it.
AdamAnd they filmed it over two years, but it's a genuinely independent production.
AdamLike his dad's stomped up some of the money.
AdamHis mom is credited under pseudonyms throughout the cast throughout the credits list, because they didn't want the name Coscarelli appearing so many times in the, you know, like Garth Morringy, music by Garth Morringy.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd because his mom was doing visual effects and costumes and makeup and stuff like that and.
AdamYou know, there's there's a lot, there's a lot going on in it.
AdamAnd and it's but it's fiercely its own thing, they basically managed to get it distributed.
LeeUnbelievable.
AdamThat was it, I think.
AdamYeah, because Don Coscarelli had done two films, but they were like coming of age films.
AdamAnd like Reggie's in both of them, and
AdamMichael Baldwin is a a secondary character in in one of them, and that's where he spotted him and was like, he's a good actor, we'll get him in.
AdamAnd but yeah, it's sort of he he comes into it and yeah.
AdamBasically, there's a bit I think there's a bit in one of the films that set at Halloween and they did a jump scare and that was like, he just he was sitting in the cinema and everyone jumped and it was like, I think I'll do a horror film next.
ChrisYeah.
AdamI like this feeling, you know, of everyone sort of reacting like that, so, yeah, that's.
ChrisThat's good.
ChrisAnd the the the gore from the sphere, that seemed quite excessive, the amount of blood they sprayed out.
ChrisIn 79, was that unusual at that point?
AdamIt's 79.
AdamYeah, I think they got they I think they wanted an R-rated and they nearly got an X, but they just, I think they basically just told them that they'd cut more of the blood out.
AdamAnd didn't, I think that was basically it.
AdamBut, but actually they got more in trouble because obviously the guy who gets attacked with the sphere then wets himself.
LeeYes.
AdamHe's literally piss slooshing across the floor and you're like, and apparently, that was a bit much for the censors.
AdamThat was like, we might have gone a bit far here.
AdamSo it gets all.
AdamBecause watching it on Blu-ray, it's the first time I've ever been actually able to tell it's piss.
AdamBecause it's just so washed out on on video prints and stuff like that, you know.
LeeGo, yeah, see.
LeeThat's you this that's when I used to watch this film a lot, I so say how long ago it was.
LeeObviously, there was the big battle between VHS and Betamax, and we had both of those.
LeeBut we also had a machine called a V2000, which was like a great big.
AdamOh, like giant video cassettes, isn't it?
LeeYeah.
LeeWith like a pull down head and you could record on both sides of them.
LeeYes, and we had Phantasm on that.
Leethat had been ripped from a VHS from a video shop, yeah.
LeeAnd I used to watch it over and over again as a kid.
Leeand I don't and that's the thing, I like I remember as a kid, you just watch it and take it all in and go.
LeeAnd it's only then I hadn't seen it for probably 15 years, and then watched it again, I think it might have been when you gave me the box set, Adam.
LeeAnd I watched it again, I went, oh, yeah, no, this doesn't make any sense.
LeeI'm not on the storyline, the storyline.
AdamI I think that's to its favor in a weird way, because also it does mean that you forget bits of it.
LeeYes.
ChrisOh, I haven't watched that. Yeah.
AdamYeah, it's not, it's not sort of, this event leads to this event and this event leads to this event.
LeeI'd forgotten all about the the the two girls with the antique shop and all.
LeeLike all of that I completely forgotten.
AdamBecause I think most of it, most of it's like sort of friends of Don Coscarelli, hardly anyone in this has gone on, Reggie Bannister is the only one who's gone on to have a film career.
LeeYeah.
Adambecause he does a lot of horror films and stuff like that, but he always comes back.
AdamBecause that's the weird thing as well, Reggie, this is probably the thing you least expect, Reggie becomes the main focus of the films.
AdamIn a sort of almost Jack Burton way, where he's not quite, he's not quite an action hero, but he's doing his best.
AdamAnd and it weirdly enough, again, like the sort of idea of tracking it through the the series of how movies changed.
AdamIt becomes so full of guns and equipment and things like that, and like Reggie ends up with like a double double barrel shotgun.
AdamSo it's four sawn off four barrels and that becomes his signature weapon.
AdamAnd you know, and weirdly enough, I think it's sort of yeah.
AdamThis is an odd because it becomes like a basically they become like a road movie.
AdamThey decide to chase the tall man down.
AdamThat that's kind of.
Chrisyeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamThat that's kind of the the literal through arc.
AdamIs that the tall man is going from town to town doing this.
Adamyeah.
AdamAnd they decide to follow him.
AdamAnd basically it's also this really lovely, brings it a really lovely creepy Western thing to it, because I'm you're beginning to get the feeling that Don Coscarelli loves a Western, especially after Bubba Ho-Tep.
AdamBut, you know, watching these, they they have that because there's lots of ghost towns.
AdamBecause they go to places where the tall man's been and he just it just rips the heart out of the place.
AdamAnd it's just a ghost town and there's no one left there, but the graves are fucking wide open.
AdamAnd you know.
AdamAnd but so they become like.
AdamThe sort of occult A-team.
AdamIs like Reggie.
LeeI want to watch the rest of these now.
AdamReggie buys out sort of like drive around.
AdamAnd by the way, the other thing that I will say, which is so fucking good is because it it has a through plot.
AdamAnd you can watch them all as a thing.
AdamBut if there's a character that you didn't think was working or there's a character that you're like, oh, that's it.
AdamDon't worry, they're gone by the next film, which usually without explanation or finished off extremely quickly.
AdamAnd then they just crack on.
AdamAnd it's almost like, no, but again, it's a lovely thing of.
AdamNo one's sitting there, you know, Don Coscarelli wasn't obviously going, well, what if the what when are the fans?
AdamYou know.
AdamIt's pre-internet.
AdamSo it's going to be, you know, the fans aren't going to be happy that Tim, the gunslinging.
Adam10 year old isn't in this one.
AdamAnd it's like, no, you're not going to have, well, what happened to this person?
AdamThey don't care.
AdamI love that for that.
AdamIt's almost like, no, just go with it for fuck sake.
AdamIf you haven't gone with this after the first maybe, you know, it's it's not for you.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut yeah, they they sort of go on this sort of mission.
AdamThey're like sort of and like they pick up people along the way.
AdamAnd Reggie becomes this sort of almost Mad Max figure.
AdamBut all the time they keep fucking around with you and going, but is this real, is this reality the last the the final film Ravager.
AdamReally plays with that where it's like.
AdamIs it the because the whole thing becomes that the tall man is essentially the tall man can fuck with reality.
AdamAnd so he can fuck with your perception so you think things are happening that are not.
AdamOr whatever like that.
AdamWhich brings me back to the fact that.
AdamSome people have spaffed into Angus Scrimm because you know.
AdamObviously if he is the is the lady in just a projection.
AdamBut she comes back as well.
AdamSo yeah, so that's good.
Adam
AdamBut yeah, by by then they're sort of like, well, is this the is reality reality?
AdamIs are you hopping through reality, are you dreaming this bit, oh.
AdamBy the way, this might be, this might be a complete fever dream that you're completely having to ignore it.
AdamBecause reality's got so horrible you're rejecting it.
AdamAnd you're like,
AdamWhat the, you know.
AdamIt it's it's entertaining.
LeeIt's heavy stuff.
AdamIt's heavy stuff.
AdamIt's sort of but but always remains fun.
AdamAnd and basically Reggie Bannister spends his whole time getting more fancyman's legal.
LeeExtra.
LeeYeah, right.
LeeThat's it, I'm definitely going to work my way through those.
ChrisAnd I is there a plan for doing another one?
AdamWell, I would say, have a if if Lee, if if you start watching through them.
AdamBecause weirdly enough, I I don't know which of the which of the other four.
AdamWould be the best.
AdamBecause I don't think working through.
AdamI mean, maybe we work our way through them, maybe they become like a thing where we can define it.
AdamThat this is like, right, here we've done the very start of 80s rental.
AdamAnd then by 88 you've got to, oh, here we've got to.
AdamOh, yeah, you can make money off horror films on video, we'll bung a bit more money towards you.
AdamBut, you know.
AdamAnd so, yeah, they they sort of work in that sense.
AdamBut yeah.
AdamLet let me know how you get on with them, like, cuz it's like.
AdamAnd and.
AdamIt has to be said.
AdamLike I said.
AdamIt just gets weird that Mike.
AdamBasically Mike comes back but ends up having his own like sort of psychedelic battle of minds Western in the desert.
AdamWhile Reggie's going around trying to shoot the little Jawa men.
AdamYou know.
LeeDo you know, this has given for some reason, when I was watching this today, it made me think of what we should cover next.
LeeBecause I know we haven't planned anything, and what you're saying now has definitely made me think.
Leethat what I was thinking was right.
LeeSo, how about we cover House 2, because I know we kept talking about it.
LeeAdam's little face lit up at that.
AdamNo, we need to cover House 2 because I just I I need happiness.
LeeYes.
AdamHouse 2's just a fucking giggle.
LeeIt really is.
LeeIt's one of the most mental sequels to a a proper horror film.
LeePart one, proper horror.
LeePart two, absolute lunacy musical.
LeeI don't know what's going.
LeeIt's amazing.
LeeSo, yes.
AdamBecause obviously and we and we have covered House.
LeeWe have.
LeeYes.
LeeSo I know Chris has seen it.
LeeSo I know we're all good to go.
ChrisIt was it was proper horror, but it was quirky proper horror.
AdamYeah, there was the one where Vietnam lived in his cupboards basically.
LeeYeah.
LeeOh, if you think what's in his cupboard's bad, wait until you find out what's beyond his sideboard.
LeeRight.
LeeSo.
LeeThat's it, we'll wrap up there.
LeeThanks ever so much for listening, everybody, go and check out Phantasm.
LeeIf you like me, Adam has sold you on the entire rest of the series, I can't wait to work through them.
AdamSeriously, I I went through it through a week and and I'll admit in in every in in a lot of ways, not a particularly fantastic week.
AdamBut I stuck with it and yeah.
AdamAnd it's it's weird because it's very disjointed, but also really consistent.
AdamAnd I.
AdamNo, I just love that.
AdamIt's the same as like, oh, you you see that guy in the caf.
AdamYeah, he was in three seasons ago, he was a cafe owner, he was he owned the cafe in that episode.
AdamThey've got the same bloke back.
AdamI'm almost like that.
AdamIt's like.
AdamOh well, you know, you've got all the you've got all the people here, but fuck me if you've really deviated from where this was.
LeeRight.
LeeSo, yes, go and check that out.
LeeGo and check out House 2 and we'll be back to discuss that in a fortnight.
LeeThanks ever so much for listening.
LeeGood night.
ChrisGood night.
AdamGood night.
