Hound of the Baskervilles
01:19:38
About
We travel to Dartmoor for our first episode of 2022, where we encounter the Hammer Studios version of “The Hound of the Baskervilles”. A film in which Peter Cushing’s status as an OG cosplayer leads to some exceptional authenticity; we learn the best way to present a ceremonial dagger to a suspect; the Bullingdon Club dry a half-drowned man out over an open fire; and Christopher Lee gets a good slap. Along the way we discuss Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s own relationship with his most famous creation; the question of co-authorship with Bertram Fletcher Robinson; and the many folktales and myths that fuelled the original story. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers, and join us. APOLOGIES FOR ANY SOUND/SPEECH QUALITY ISSUES - THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED REMOTELY, AT THE HEART OF THE GREAT GRIMPEN MIRE
Transcript
Show full transcript
LeeGood evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisHi, I'm Chris.
AdamHi, I'm Adam.
JenniferI'm Jennifer.
LeeHappy New Year!
AdamJennifer's back.
ChrisHappy New Year!
JenniferYay!
LeeYay.
LeeYeah, somehow we had the holidays and Jennifer still isn't sick of the sight of me enough to be desperate to get an hour and a half away from you.
JenniferNo, no, I totally am, but I really like Sherlock Holmes.
ChrisThis this is, yeah.
AdamThat was the trade off, yeah.
ChrisYeah.
Lee
ChrisDo do you like this Sherlock Holmes though? That's the question.
JenniferWell, we'll have to wait for that, won't we?
ChrisOoh.
AdamIndeed.
Leeso just to let you all know, what we've decided to do as we've had the month off over Christmas and New Year and we've got through a lot. Adam had the excellent idea of rather than us dashing through all the stuff that we've watched and trying to condense it and not giving it the time it's it's due really. we're going to do a bonus episode which will either have dropped before or after this episode or at the same time, I mean, who knows.
Lee
LeeSo we're going to do that instead. So we're not going to have our usual what we've been watching, and also Sherlock Holmes I think deserves a lot of time because of although we want to stick to one version this evening, we do want to cover it a bit more of an overall really.
LeeSo and also thank you to Claire for this fantastic idea of suggesting this, it was it Claire who suggested this?
LeeOr was it Adam?
AdamI think it was me actually because Claire looks dazed and confused by the whole situation.
LeeOh, sorry.
LeeIn that case I see whenever Adam comes up with great idea, I always give Claire the credit.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisThat's because she comes up with so many great ideas.
JenniferHalf the time.
Adam90% of the time it is Claire's idea.
Leeyes, so we're covering The Hound of the Baskervilles this evening.
Leebut obviously, as we say, Sherlock Holmes in general.
Leethis I think is one of the more horror stories from Sherlock Holmes.
LeeBut I know that myself and Jennifer and Adam are massive fans of Sherlock Holmes, in all of its adaptations really.
Lee
LeeChris, do you use Sherlock Holmes something that you've delved into a lot or particularly?
ChrisI I've seen one or two episodes when I was fairly young. I the one that sticks out to me which is you know probably not as applicable is young Sherlock Holmes, which I seem to remember being quite odd and entertaining but I don't know how much like how close is it to actual Sherlock Holmes?
AdamIt certainly certainly not based on Conan Doyle.
ChrisNo, yeah, okay.
AdamIt's it's funny you mention that though because the obviously we're doing this evening we're sort of concentrating on the Hammer edition. I got the Blu-ray, the Arrow Blu-ray of it. And one of the things on there is what's what's called 'The Many Faces of Sherlock Holmes' and it's narrated by Christopher Lee, but I think looking at it, it looks like it is a part of the sort of advertising package for Young Sherlock Holmes.
ChrisOh, right.
AdamBecause there's a big load of young Sherlock Holmes clips at the start before he goes off and into And interestingly enough, I think he's just talking film versions.
Chris
Adamand also he he is dressed like the most obvious undercover policeman you've ever seen. He's like sort of blue blue blue blazer and a tweed hat and he's mustache. He he actually looks exactly as he does in Death Line.
ChrisWow.
AdamAlmost you know, I mean in Death Line it's a bowler hat, but pretty much it's the same it's that same look of it's like, you come here to arrest me, haven't you? That is the only vibe you're giving off here.
LeeOh, before we get into it again.
LeeObviously, there will be spoilers and swearing just to let everybody know.
LeeI'm sure everybody knows the story of The Hound of the Baskervilles, but nevertheless, it's always worth pointing out and there will be swears possibly.
LeeAlthough I feel wrong doing it because this feels like a cultured episode.
LeeSo I mean,
JenniferYeah, makes sense.
ChrisAlthough, although I was kind of surprised that there's a little bit of swearing in it.
AdamIs there?
AdamWhat bit?
ChrisWell, well, it's on the more mild end, the you know, the female dog is mentioned.
JenniferOh!
AdamAll right, okay.
LeeOh, yes, yes.
ChrisI just was a bit to be honest, the whole of the start was a I was a little bit thrown, it was like, oh, okay, I didn't quite see this orgiastic party.
AdamYeah.
Chrishappening.
ChrisIt was like, oh, yeah, okay, it's
Chrispretty forlorn.
AdamThat's definitely I think it's unique in that opening.
AdamBecause obviously in the in the usual version of the story.
AdamStarts with Holmes and Watson, Dr. Mortimer turns up and then reads them that story.
ChrisRight.
AdamWhereas Hammer have obviously thought, what do we What do we do best?
ChrisGon.
AdamLike horror melodrama in period costume.
ChrisYeah. Let's
AdamSo let's go for that.
ChrisLet's go for it.
AdamIt's like sort of cold open it almost which is a very unusual way to do it, you know.
Adam
AdamAnd it's even more unusual because then you cut back and the narrator is not like a main character technically.
AdamIf well, not he's one of the participants, but he's not Holmes or Watson.
AdamAnd you go into a Sherlock Holmes movie assuming that you would be like the stories you'd be doing it from Watson's perspective or from Holmes's perspective or whatever.
AdamAnd so yeah, it's just a weird, very odd opening, but also pretty fucking spectacular. It's very Hammer, isn't it? With those mat paintings in the background and like the very stark colors as well, you know, the.
LeeYeah.
LeeThat very sort of washed out matt paintings with the very red credits over the top and that fantastic font.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYes, yes, he's a lovely lovely font.
Adamlovely font work from the Hammer boys there.
AdamAnd actually I mean that opening sequence, I mean, basically it's the Bullingdon Club, isn't it?
ChrisOh, that yeah, that absolutely it was reminded me of societal a little bit. I was like, this going to go it's not going to go that far, but it's
AdamIt's pretty far.
ChrisWhat
Adamenough enough that his coed up mates aren't that's That's that's all it reminded me of is suits in a pub.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut
AdamYeah, even even his co-up mates are a bit, you can't you can't just like chase a human being down with a horse, can you?
AdamYou know that's much.
LeeBecause Jennifer, I think it's all right. It's all right to bring a down and abuse her in a game, but setting a dog after her.
ChrisOh.
LeeOh, all of a sudden.
ChrisThat's stepped over a line there.
AdamYeah, certainly everyone's a fucking vicar.
AdamHaving also nearly set fire to her dad.
ChrisYeah, he doesn't look great after it.
LeeHe looks pretty dead.
ChrisIs is he is he dead?
AdamI'm kind of assuming, I know that this I'm not sure if the Arrow version, I should I should have checked but I just forgot to, but I'm not sure if the Arrow version is any different, but the this is one of the few Hammer films that's cut in England still. and I think there's more of him in the fire. I think they basically put him in the fire and then drag him out.
ChrisOh, god.
AdamSo it's not just holding him over.
AdamAlthough technically, he's been in the moat, so, you know, he should be fine, shouldn't he?
LeeHe's dead.
AdamIf if anything they're drying him off, you know, it's a kindness.
Adam
AdamYeah, and I think I think the other thing is there's like maybe more shots of the knife with blood on it.
Chris
AdamSo it's only this opening bit that has bits that are sort of a bit.
ChrisI was going to mention that later. I quite liked Peter Cushing or Sherlock Holmes's little flourish with the knife, the dagger later on when he.
AdamOh, yeah.
LeeYeah.
JenniferAnd he's for the death.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah.
Leeone more thing, and this.
ChrisYeah.
AdamPow.
LeeOh.
AdamIt's not too it's not it's not too far off Elvis in what they're like in Walk Hard.
LeeYeah.
AdamLook at that.
AdamBecause I mean, that's in a weird way, because obviously, Peter Cushing was a real like Sherlock Holmes nut.
ChrisOkay.
AdamHe was a proper aficionado of the books before it so
AdamI mean, interestingly enough, part of his costume is Peter Cushing's own stuff that he brought from home. So I get the impression he was an early Sherlock Holmes cosplayer.
JenniferOh.
ChrisOh, that's impressive.
AdamI think he just dressed up as Sherlock Holmes at home.
AdamI think he just was that much of a fan.
LeeThat tweet.
AdamAnd I mean he does he does kind of resemble.
Chris
AdamHe resembles the Paget like the classic Sydney Paget illustrations do really resemble Peter Cushing as well, and it's that same sort of very gump face and everything else like that.
Adam
ChrisBut I did not having seen a lot, I did think he was great in it.
ChrisI mean, what doesn't he do great, but you know.
AdamOh, no.
AdamI but I think I think it's that weird thing where you can tell because of how much of a fan he is, how much he's fucking enjoying it.
AdamBecause he's really going for it, you know.
Adam
AdamBut yeah, so and also he changed bits of the dialogue and actually brought them back to the original book.
AdamSo there's lines in there there's actually lines in there from other Sherlock Holmes stories, it's not purely like the bit where he talks about his rates of pay that I think's from that's from a different Sherlock Holmes story and stuff.
AdamAnd even nailing his letters to the fireplace with the knife.
LeeYeah.
AdamWhich is in the books.
AdamAnd again, that was something that Peter Cushing said, well, can I do that? Can I will do that? So I've got my letters.
AdamYeah, so he really like was properly sort of like, no, let's make this the most Sherlock Holmes, most accurate and doing it properly.
JenniferSo Hammer, do we know why?
AdamBasically, this was the first sort of not not flop, but it was the first of that run of Hammer that didn't do well at the box office.
AdamI think mostly because it's not, a monster.
ChrisYeah, no, no, I was going to say, right, because it does seem a little bit odd to me for them to choose this because this isn't ultimately supernatural and I'm assuming the other Sherlock Holmes aren't either, even though they probably build up the whole.
AdamYou know.
AdamThere's
AdamI mean, the whole the whole thing with and it's quite a weird thing with Arthur Conan Doyle as he turned out.
ChrisNo, I've heard well, I've heard a bit about him.
ChrisNot a huge amount.
AdamHis Sherlock.
ChrisBut yeah.
AdamWell, I mean, he well, I mean, he he was he was Scottish, he studied medicine at Edinburgh and he was under a doctor called Bell who he basically took Sherlock Holmes from. He exhibited a lot of his personality and he was basically a forensic pathologist. He was solving crimes through careful observation of.
ChrisDid he say elementary?
Adamthat I could not answer.
AdamI mean, Holmes doesn't.
LeeThey say.
ChrisHe says it twice in twice that I can remember in this.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt's not as it's not as prevalent in the books.
AdamIn fact, the one thing that is great about the books is that I think there's at least three occurrences of It was around three o'clock when I was awoken by a sudden ejaculation from Holmes.
AdamAnd there you go, the time's gone.
LeeTold you.
AdamThe other way.
AdamSo, so if anything he should have ejaculated more than the elementary because there's probably more times that occurs in the books.
AdamIt's a bit sort of beam me up, Scotty, sort of things where it's like or you dirty rat where it's things that people said possibly once and then it sort of becomes this part of it.
AdamMuch the same as the deer stalker's an invention of Sydney Paget.
AdamIt's not in the stories per se.
Adamand Holmes dresses like that for the countryside, so it works that it's sort of Hound of the Baskervilles.
AdamBut you know, he wouldn't necessarily be wandering around London in an Inverness cape and a.
Adamdeer stalker because that was that was country dress.
AdamSo again, I wonder if it's the sort of the Hound of the Baskervilles is the most popular or the most recognized Sherlock Holmes story.
AdamAnd because of that, that's the image that is portrayed of Holmes.
AdamWhereas in actual fact, yeah, I mean, they sort of got it pretty accurate with the Jeremy Brett version where I think he wears it in Hound of the Baskervilles and that's about it.
AdamWhereas the rest of the time he's about town, so he's just wearing a top out or whatever.
AdamSo it's yeah.
LeeNow you're saying about Arthur Conan Doyle, there is a really good series that Jennifer and I found on TV when we were on holiday and came back and bought the box set. and it's called 'Houdini and Doyle'.
LeeDid you ever see that Adam?
AdamOh, yes.
AdamYes, I've heard of it, yeah.
ChrisThat sounds interesting.
ChrisBecause Houdini was quite science-based.
AdamI think it's based on books as well.
AdamI think it's a series of books.
LeeI'll have to dig that out.
ChrisWasn't Houdini quite science based? And it's that this I think I heard they used to sort of argue over.
ChrisBecause surprisingly Arthur Conan Doyle was quite into spiritualism and pseudo science which is odd because he's made one of the most rational people ever to exist.
AdamYeah.
AdamWell, I mean this this was the this was the curious thing is because I mean and it's it's weird because he had another great character, which is a character called Professor Challenger.
AdamAnd that's the story of 'The Lost World', like the original story of where it's.
AdamThey basically go exploring in South America and find a plateau where dinosaurs are still in existence.
Adamthere's I think there's been adaptations of it, but no one's ever done because there were quite a few Professor Challenger stories.
AdamI think five in total, I mean it wasn't like anything like the amount that he did Sherlock Holmes.
AdamBut he had this other recurring character.
AdamAnd
Adamthe main reason that I'm glad it's not been adapted is because the one man who could play it is probably too old to do it now because Professor Challenger is like in his sort of thirties or forties.
Adam
AdamBut when you read the book, it is Brian Blessed.
LeeI knew you were going to say that name.
AdamYeah.
AdamHe's literally impossible not to read it as Brian Blessed.
AdamHe's got this huge beard, he's this bellowing sort of loony bear of a man who's like, you know, embraces people and climbing fucking mountains and stuff like that.
AdamYou know, he's just this sort of.
Adamhuge.
AdamBrian Blessed essentially.
AdamAnd
AdamYeah, so it's a missed opportunity that he didn't play him sort of like a few years ago.
AdamBut then,
Adamthe weird thing is that the Professor Challenger books do have weird and unusual stuff in it. It's almost sci-fi because you've got things like undiscovered dinosaurs, there's a mysterious gas that comes out of the planet when they're doing drilling like when they're doing like a drilling project or something like that.
AdamBut then really unfortunately, the last of the Professor Challenger books is like a thinly sort of veiled sort of like, isn't isn't spiritualism great.
AdamAnd and and it's literally like and it's literally to the point where it's sort of like the character the debunking characters who don't like spiritualism are practically called things like Mr. Nasty, probably a paedophile.
AdamAnd whereas all the spiritualists are called like Mr. Braveheart and Mr. Mr. True, absolute unequivocal truth and he'd do the dishes if you asked him. or miss Mrs. would always lend you a fiver.
AdamYou know, they're
Adamthey are irredeemably good and everyone who is against spiritualism is clearly a vicious party pooping shitter who just doesn't want people to realize that the their loved ones can talk to them kindly through these mediums for a vast sum of money.
Adam
Adambut fortunately Homes is never like Con Doyle never sort of did that with Homes.
AdamHe was
AdamI I think in a weird way because he got quite sick of writing Sherlock Holmes and that's why he killed him off.
AdamAnd I wonder if it is almost because you're in this conflict with your own creation who basically is like, no.
ChrisYeah.
AdamThis is all bullshit, there's only reality now stop being so fucking stupid.
AdamAnd
Adamyeah, I think that that might have been partially why.
Adamhe sort of killed him off and was.
AdamAnd again,
Adamprobably why he I think he lost interest in home in writing the stories.
Adam
Adamand
AdamSo the and I also think that this is the main reason why Hound of the Baskervilles is the one.
AdamThat everyone's like always like.
AdamSo Sherlock Holmes right the Baskervilles, that's the classic.
Adamone, that's the one that people could name, that's the one people probably have seen a version of, it's the one that gets made into sort of forty odd movie versions and TV movie versions and stuff like that.
AdamIt's.
LeeWe got tricked.
AdamAnd
Adambasically
Leewhat happened
LeeSorry?
LeeI was going to say we got tricked into watching one. so in 1937, there was they made one called 'Murder at the Baskervilles', which is actually 'Silver Blaze'.
AdamOh, right.
AdamOkay.
LeeBut the idea is he Hemry first, so then he gets invited there for the weekend and his neighbor gets his race horse nicked, so he deals with it while he's down, so we watched it thinking it was a Baskerville one and it isn't, it's 'The Silver Blaze' story.
LeeBut as you say because everyone associates Baskerville, they just nicked the name and reappropriated it, so.
AdamWas that an English one or a German one or something?
LeeIt's English.
LeeIt's very.
AdamWas it silent or.
LeeNo, no, it's.
LeeIt's got sound and everything, but you said, didn't you, like the Jennifer, it's one of those.
AdamAll right.
JenniferVery early where it feels like a stage production.
JenniferIt's lots of locked off cameras and.
LeeYeah.
Jenniferpoor acting but more because you feel they're acting as if they're on the stage rather than a sort of natural so yeah, it was very very dated.
AdamBecause I because I know that there was like, I think the first adaption the first film adaption was a German one and that had like five sequels that all seem to be.
AdamSo I wondered if it was part of that that they'd sort of just thought, well, we've got to keep Baskerville in it.
AdamSo but.
AdamBut yeah.
AdamWhen so obviously you've got, I think I think basically you have the you have two books and then two sets of short stories. I've everything was published initially in 'The Strand' magazine, like the Sherlock Holmes stories.
AdamSo it was the novels serialized and then the short stories would appear and everything else like that.
AdamAnd then he got.
AdamSo he got annoyed with Holmes and killed him off.
Adamin the 'Final Problem'.
AdamAnd that was.
Adam1893.
AdamSo and obviously at the time it was like, you know, mass mourning, people were walking around with black armbands and you know, because of the death of this beloved fictitious character.
LeeIt's the 'Houdini and Doyle' show as well.
LeeIs it it's set just after he'd written the 'Final Problem'.
LeeSo all the way through while the two of them are doing their investigations, people keep telling him what a shit he is for killing off Sherlock.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamI like that.
AdamBut I think yeah, so he he was and he was kind of adamant with it.
AdamHe was going to stick to his guns.
AdamAnd.
AdamYou know,
Adamthat was that.
Adam
AdamAnd then he went on.
AdamWell, what was it?
AdamI I mean, I'll give you the I've got the backstory.
AdamBecause there's a lot of folk myth and folklore that goes into 'Hound of the Baskervilles'.
AdamFrom Conan Doyle.
AdamAnd basically in so yes, so he kills off Sherlock he kills off Holmes in 1893.
AdamAnd then.
AdamIn 1901 he goes on a Arthur Conan Doyle goes on a golfing holiday with a friend of his.
AdamBertram Fletcher Robinson whose nickname was Bubbles.
LeeOh.
AdamSo so he's gone on the golfing holiday with Bubbles Fletcher Robinson.
Adam
Adamand when it when it was raining inevitably, they would just sit around the hotel.
AdamAnd.
AdamFletcher Robinson would tell Arthur Conan Doyle about local legends.
AdamSo the first one that came up was first thing he was talking about was Black Shuck, which I'm sure you'll have heard about in terms of it's one of the big myths of the British Isles, the sort of spectral Phantom Black dog.
Adam
Adamwhich is sort of East Anglia and Essex folklore and but there's there's sort of black dog.
AdamPhantom black dogs up and down the country.
LeeWe had one when we were there, they said it was part of their local folk legend.
LeeThat there's a black dog.
LeeThat
Leehaunts the streets at night and takes away anyone out after dark.
LeeWe didn't find it.
JenniferNo, sorry with that.
AdamYeah, they've got.
AdamThey've got ones they've got ones in Scotland.
AdamAnd yeah, it's something that just is pretty sort of.
Adamcentric to the British Isles for some reason.
JenniferKeep children in at night, simple.
JenniferEasier.
AdamSo Black Shuck, the word actually is.
AdamProbably from an old English word which is shuka for fiend or devil.
AdamAnd the stories of Black Shuck vary sort of considerably.
AdamHe's always a large black dog, but sometimes he's just a large dog and then anything up to like the size of a horse.
AdamSo they really, you know.
Adamhe's even been portraying it usually has red or yellow glowing eyes.
Adamoccasionally he's portrayed as a cyclops.
AdamNot sure why.
Adam
Adamand he's often regarded as a harbinger of disaster or death.
AdamBut then also other stories he is a protector or a guide, he sort of protects.
Adamlone women walking alone at night or he guides people through stuff like The Grimpen Mire, you know, he would sort of that.
AdamYou know, he'd be people would be led by following this phantom dog that doesn't.
Adam
AdamBut where's the
Adamquote.
AdamI got.
AdamHe takes the form of a huge black dog and prowls along dark lanes and lonesome field footpaths where, although his howling makes the hearer's blood run cold, his footfalls make no sound.
AdamBut such an encounter may bring you the worst of luck, it is even said that to meet him is to be warned that your death will occur before the end of the year.
AdamSo you will do well to shut your eyes if you hear him howling, shut them even if you are uncertain whether it is the dog fiend or the voice of the wind you hear.
AdamYou may perhaps doubt his existence and, like other learned folks, tell us that his story is nothing but the old Scandinavian myth of the black hound of Odin, brought to us by the Vikings.
Adam
AdamSo yes, so that's Black Shuck.
AdamAnd that clearly tickled Arthur Conan Doyle's fancy.
Adam
AdamAnd then Conan Doyle went.
AdamDecided that he and Fletcher Robinson would co-write a really good supernatural story.
Adamincidentally,
Adamthey were also at that time reading a story in 'The Strand' magazine called 'Followed'.
AdamWhich is basically, from what I gather, is basically The Hound of the Baskervilles with a big snake rather than a dog.
ChrisHow do they dress the snake up?
AdamLike it's no, I think someone just gets what is it they get snake attracting powder put on their boots.
AdamSo it's like it's even to that point.
AdamSomeone's just someone's looked at it and just gone, you know, if you made that a dog, you could just do it by scent.
LeeOh.
ChrisFuck, yeah, right, okay.
Adam
AdamSo we know they've read that but that's that's by the by.
AdamBecause I think half of the definitely the pleasure of Conan Doyle is how well he writes anymore so than the stories that he does.
AdamSo,
Adam
AdamConan Doyle went.
AdamStayed at Fletcher Robinson's family home, Park Hill House in Ipplepen, which is on the outskirts of Dartmoor.
AdamFletcher Robinson then told him the story of Richard Cabell the Third.
AdamThe squire of Brook Hall in nearby Buckfastleigh also known as Dirty Dick.
AdamCabell definitely seems to be an inspiration for Hugo Baskerville described as a monstrously evil man.
AdamHe had a reputation for immorality, debauchery and the locals believed he'd sold his soul to the devil.
AdamAnd murdered his wife and murdered his wife.
LeeNice.
Adam
Adamand again, some saying that he drove her to ground with a pack of hounds.
LeeOh.
AdamHe lived a hunt.
AdamBut when he eventually died, he was buried at the Holy Trinity Church in Buckfastleigh.
AdamAnd when he was buried a pack of Phantom Hounds were said to have come from the moor to bait and howl at his tomb.
AdamFollowing that, the ghost of Cabell was then seen regularly hunting on the Moors with these hellish hounds.
AdamIn an effort to lay the ghost and this is a place you can go and visit still.
AdamIn an effort to lay the ghost, a free standing mausoleum was constructed around Cabell's grave.
AdamWith a large stone slab over the top of the coffin and the windows barred with iron railings.
AdamNow.
AdamThis this story is such a sort of ingrained part of Buckfastleigh that during World War II, you know when they were taking all sort of ornamental railings and stuff up to add to the war effort for munitions and manufacture and stuff like that.
Adam
Adamthe locals successfully campaigned to keep the railings on this too during World War II.
AdamThey were that adamant that like.
AdamNo, we are not letting Richard Cabell out.
LeeYeah.
Adam
LeeYeah.
JenniferThey could have told him off and sent him off to fight, you know.
AdamYeah, exactly.
AdamI mean, this is the thing, you should I mean, that would have been that would have probably been Crowley's answer to it.
AdamIt would have just been like.
Adamunleash him, I don't know.
AdamI don't know if that's his voice.
AdamBut it could be.
Adam
AdamAlso one of the one of the local stories.
AdamIs that if you walk thirteen times around the graveyard withershins.
AdamOr anti-clockwise, and then stick your finger in the keyhole of the tomb.
Adamhe bites your finger off.
LeeNo.
AdamSo it's.
AdamYeah.
LeeOh.
AdamYeah.
LeeIt's
AdamThat's what happened.
AdamTerry Nutkins.
AdamWasn't a bloody seal at all.
AdamThe liar.
Adam
AdamAnd then.
AdamAlso at Park Hill House like Fletcher Robinson's house, the groom of slash footman was Henry Harry Baskerville.
LeeOh.
AdamWho would go on to say in later years that he inspired the Baskerville name, claiming that both Fletcher Robinson and Conan Doyle had asked him for permission to use the name.
AdamAnd he owned a copy of the novel inscribed to Henry Baskerville from Fletcher Robinson with apologies for using the name.
LeeNice.
LeeNice.
AdamBut.
AdamThere's also another branch.
Adamof the Baskerville family, the Baskervilles of Clyro Court on the English Welsh border.
AdamWhich is now called Baskerville House Hotel if you want to go and stay there.
LeeOoh.
AdamAnd it it looks the part.
AdamIt really fucking does.
Adam
Adamand they were also visited by Conan Doyle and again, they claimed that he asked them for use of the permission to use the name Baskerville.
AdamThey said that they agreed on the understanding that no real life connection was made between them, their house and the locality in the book.
AdamBut I mean, obviously they'd kind of decided they were doing a Dartmoor story anyway, like Fletcher Robinson and Conan Doyle had.
AdamSo.
Adam
AdamYeah, so that was going to.
AdamSo that didn't.
AdamSee that as a problem.
AdamNow these.
AdamBaskervilles also have a phantom dog legend.
Adamthe story went that they had a faithful wolfhound that kept whimpering and howling to alert the family there was a wolf at the door.
Adamand then in exasperation with the animal's agitated display, the master of the house drove a spear through its head.
AdamTo get it to shut up.
AdamAnd their crest is actually.
Adama has a a wolf or wolfhound looking head on its crest with the state with the spear through its head and like five drops of blood.
LeeThat's pretty cool.
AdamWhich is pretty down.
LeeIt's pretty.
AdamAnd then and obviously with it and in terms of the story it turns out the dog was right.
AdamThere was a wolf.
AdamSo you know.
Adamwell done fella.
AdamSo the ghost of this wolfhound supposedly appears whenever a member of the Baskerville family is due to die.
AdamAnd he appears with the spear through his head.
Adam
Adamand
AdamBut also this group of Baskervilles intermarried with a group called the Vaughns.
AdamThat with a family called the Vaughns of nearby Hergest Hall.
AdamThey also have a phantom dog fucking story with with them.
LeeOh.
AdamRight, so it's.
AdamIt's brilliant.
AdamThis is.
Adam
AdamAnd they also have another candidate for inspiring Hugo Baskerville.
Adambecause they had Squire Thomas Vaughan who was known as Black Vaughan.
Adamin the late 15th century, who along with his wife Ellena the Terrible was a wicked man and a scourge of the locals.
AdamHe apparently,
Adamhe used to set his dogs on anyone who annoyed him.
Adam
Adamand
AdamHe was in he fought in the War of the Roses and switched sides halfway through and was beheaded at the Battle of Bamburgh.
Adamwhere one of his black bloodhounds appeared and carried its master's head away in its jaws, and that's the story.
AdamAnd then.
AdamThen Vaughan's ghost began.
AdamTerrorizing the area, overturning carts.
AdamAnd taking the form of either a black bull or an immense fly.
Adam
AdamEventually an exorcism was ordered to settle the ghost, twelve priests summoned the spirit and through arduous chanting and prayer.
AdamEventually shrunk the spirit to the size of a blowfly and incased it in a snuff box.
AdamVaughan's last entreaty was to be not buried beneath water and then the priests immediately buried the snuff box under the bed of a brook and Vaughan's spirit was silenced forever.
AdamBut.
AdamThe Phantom of his black dog still appears and was a member of if he owned for members of the Vaughan family.
Adambut the Vaughan family, that branch of the Vaughan family fucking died out.
AdamSo obviously they saw a lot of Phantom dogs in their time.
LeeOkay.
AdamSo.
AdamAnd so basically.
AdamSo they came up with this they came up with the story and they wanted the Hound and everything else like that.
AdamAnd then Conan Doyle was like.
AdamWell, I've only got one I've only rather than invent a character.
AdamI'll just bring back Sherlock Holmes.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo 1902 the thing's published.
AdamAnd at that point it was published with.
AdamFletcher Robinson as co-author.
AdamHe was credited according to Conan Doyle's wishes, but that then has been later sort of missed off and it's now just credited solely to Conan Doyle.
LeeInteresting.
AdamAlthough.
AdamFletcher Robinson did receive royalties.
AdamRoyalties payment for it and stuff like that.
AdamAnd actually Conan Doyle had sold the story to 'The Strand' for fifty pounds per thousand words, then told them he was doing it Sherlock Holmes.
AdamAnd up that to a hundred pounds per thousand words.
LeeWow.
AdamBecause he knew that.
AdamYou know,
Adampeople were like.
AdamAnd so yeah.
AdamSo 190 when yeah, so when it comes out in 1902.
AdamObviously, everyone has been Sherlock starved for well, 1901 it was serialized.
Adam1902 then the book comes out.
AdamBut yeah.
AdamBasically everyone was like, oh, thank fuck more Sherlock.
AdamMore Sherlock.
AdamBecause and obviously it's a belt of a story.
LeeYeah, I know how they feel.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo I think.
AdamI think that's why Hound is like the classic one because it was the probably the first one that was like.
AdamIt was like the sequel making more money than the original at the box office or something like that.
AdamWhere, you know, I think it was just like so many people by this point, you know, people had probably caught up, what is the fuss about this Sherlock Holmes?
AdamYou know, when you when you see people mourning a fictional character.
AdamYou're probably going to be like, well, maybe I'll check this out.
AdamAnd then, you know, you've gone through, you've done you've done the 'Strand' magazine equivalent of a Netflix box box set and you're like, oh, I wish I'd known about this when they were still writing them.
AdamAnd then.
AdamHound comes out.
AdamAnd the interesting thing is that the Hound of the Baskervilles is meant to be an earlier case.
AdamSo Conan Doyle.
Adamstatement on it was that no this was found in Watson's papers.
AdamThis is pre.
LeeHe's still.
AdamYeah.
LeeThis works.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut it was such a success.
LeeBring him back.
AdamHe brought him back in 'The Empty House' in 1903.
AdamAnd that's when he actually resurrects the character as he falsified his own death and everything.
AdamAnd goes on to have however many more further adventures.
AdamSo.
AdamIt's kind of the.
AdamIt's it's kind of weird because it's like it's the absolute sort of pinnacle of Sherlock Mania, I suppose or whatever like that or interest in it.
Adam
Adamand yeah, so I think.
AdamThat's why it's sort of so memorable.
ChrisLike Sherlock is so clever.
ChrisHe brought himself back from the dead.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisYou know.
ChrisTo be rewritten.
ChrisIf you can make a character that good that you are compelled to resurrect him. Well, I mean this is the thing, is even even at that point, even though because Conan Doyle wrote horror stories.
AdamThere's he's he's there's a really good mummy story that he did.
AdamIt's like 'Lot'.
LeeOh, yeah, we've got the the Ladybird book, wasn't it?
JenniferOh, Ladybird.
LeeLadybird, Ladybird.
AdamIt was Ladybird.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeI had that as a kid.
AdamBecause Yeah, I had that one and but that yeah, that's that's Conan Doyle.
AdamAnd the interestingly enough those Ladybird books, they they were Frankenstein, Dracula.
AdamThe Mummy, which was lot whatever, Jekyll and Hyde and Hound of the Baskervilles.
AdamSo even in those.
AdamThey considered Hound of the Baskervilles a horror story.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd it.
AdamAnd I mean it's it's sort of it's definitely the one that because whatever happens, you've still got like this folklore story in there, so it's still because that's obviously I mean like I mean like I say, I mean how many fucking Baskervilles with black dog stories did you want to find?
AdamBut you know, they managed to sort of successfully cover them all and create this thing.
AdamBut again, it was that sort of tension where Conan Doyle was like, right, I need.
AdamI need a character who's going to explain why this has come about.
AdamAnd it's it's a strange thing.
AdamYou know, where where he was quite happy to write fictions of, you know, he was quite prepared to write supernatural fiction for one of a better expression, but he was very determined that Hound of the Baskervilles would have a rational explanation.
AdamAnd therefore.
AdamHe brings in the arch rationalist.
AdamAnd it's interesting that Holmes never the he knew in a weird way never to do that with Holmes.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamBecause I I suppose weirdly, I mean, this is that point is it's almost like, well if Holmes is right all the time.
AdamThen it would be a very fundamental thing to have been wrong.
ChrisYeah.
AdamI suppose.
AdamI don't know.
AdamBut.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt's such an obnoxious.
LeeHe has such a massive backstory.
LeeSo Chris, considering as you said that you're not not as versed in Sherlock Holmes.
LeeHow did you find this just as a a Hammer film sort of stand alone?
Chrisyeah, I suppose it's interesting because of sort of the two elements being brought together.
ChrisIt like they seem to have done this really well for it being sort of the Hammer style yet still getting across Sherlock Holmes effectively.
ChrisAnd it's interesting, you know that all those actors can play the roles and it just works really well.
Chrisand I suppose that is as we've said that Sherlock has all the elements of supernatural horror, even if the final explanation is a rational one.
ChrisAnd Yeah, yeah, essentially.
Chrisbut yeah, and and the main character is not exactly the supernatural one, it's Holmes, but you know, they play off each other so well.
ChrisSo I you know, it's it's very enjoyable to watch they seem to have held up really well.
Chris
ChrisYeah.
ChrisAnd it had enough elements of you know, it's quite tense at points but it's also quite entertaining, there seemed to be quite a bit of drinking throughout, not just at the party.
ChrisYou know.
ChrisLike so yeah, they had all the right characters in there.
ChrisIt was really good.
ChrisAnd again just Peter Cushing.
Chrisso it's hard to you know, not not enjoy it just for that alone.
LeeIt's a funny role for Cushing.
LeeBecause as Adam said, you can see his love for the character.
LeeBecause he plays him so well, that kind of almost obnoxious.
Leekind of
ChrisYeah.
Leeyou know, he knows he's better than him.
LeeBut it's funny to see Peter Cushing do that because he normally plays such an amiable character to his own entertainment.
ChrisWell, yeah, side from talking.
LeeYeah.
AdamWell,
Adamthat's the thing you that's the thing is he's either he's either a bastard or or he's lovely to actually see someone who's the hero being a bastard.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamI mean,
Adamthat that bit where it's like enjoy your rabbit stew.
LeeYeah.
AdamGo talk to your peasant friends.
AdamIt's like, fuck me, mate.
LeePutting in punches.
Adam
JenniferJennifer.
AdamBecause weirdly the other thing as well is I think you've got a.
AdamI think all the bit part because apart from Cushing, Lee and Andre Morell.
AdamThese aren't.
AdamYou know what I mean, you haven't necessarily got a cast of Oh, I don't know, I suppose they are faces.
ChrisI recognize John Le Mesurier.
ChrisNow, I hadn't actually seen him in anything.
ChrisBut I always remember him from the BBC radio adaption of 'Lord of the Rings'.
JenniferMust have seen 'Dad's Army'.
ChrisI I mean, I didn't know he was in it, I didn't know that was him.
ChrisI 'Dad's Army' was on on occasion.
ChrisI never particularly watched it.
JenniferNo, fair enough.
ChrisNo diss.
AdamAnd and obviously the narrator of 'Bod' as well.
AdamHe's he's got quite a lot of voice over.
AdamStuff and.
Adam'Home Pride Flour', I have to say this I'm very pleased that it's given me the opportunity to talk about John Le Mesurier.
AdamBecause I just love.
AdamHe was such a lovely man, again, very much in the Peter Cushing end of things where it's like someone who is an absolute gentleman who you never hear anyone saying, you know, a bad word about them.
AdamAnd just genuinely.
AdamYeah, I mean, he was so he was married three times.
AdamHis second wife was Hattie Jacques.
AdamAnd they had two sons together.
AdamNow Hattie Jacques started having an affair with her driver and John Le Mesurier had just met a woman called Joan who was going to become his third wife.
AdamBut John Le Mesurier was basically like.
AdamWell, shall I just go in the spare room? Because you've you know, you're obviously.
AdamAnd then because of because of he could mention Joan.
AdamHe then took the role of the person at fault in the divorce settlement so that she wouldn't get the scandal attached to her.
LeeOh, that's nice.
AdamBut.
AdamBecause obviously I mean.
AdamIt's I mean, like it's any fucking different now, but certainly at the time much more, you know, very much like Bloke, that's fine.
AdamYeah, he went off an affair.
AdamA woman.
AdamIt would have been she was shunned.
AdamThat's it, her reputation is.
AdamThrough no one wants to work with her and everything.
AdamSo John like was like, no, I'll just look, I'll be the I'll be the one at the fault in the divorce.
AdamSo that she it wouldn't affect her career and stuff like that.
AdamAnd basically they remained.
AdamHe remained friends with Hattie until she died.
Adamyou know, like they were it was very amicable.
AdamAnd they had two sons together.
AdamAnd there's a lovely interview with one of his sons saying who was saying like one of their sons where he was saying he was.
Adamgoing off the rails a bit because he used to be in the music industry.
Adamand he's like, you know, he said, I was doing a lot of naughty things.
AdamAnd my mum was worried, so she got John to come and see me.
AdamAnd apparently he just turned around and was like, I know you're not going to take any notice of me, you know, you can take a blind but you notice.
AdamBut.
Adamyou know.
AdamJust for your mum's sake.
AdamEven if you don't.
AdamStop, just make it look like you've stopped for her sake just because otherwise, you know, she worries.
AdamBless her.
AdamAnd it's not going to.
AdamAnd then sort of like that that chat and then he went, right.
AdamSo, have you got a joint?
Adam
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd anyway, so.
AdamI mean.
AdamAnd then he married Joan.
Adamand then about a few months into that marriage, Tony Hancock's own marriage had collapsed and he was married to Tony Hancock.
AdamSo he said to Tony Hancock, you could come and stay there.
AdamTony Hancock came out had an affair with fucking Joan.
LeeOh.
AdamGod.
AdamAnd and but.
AdamLike so she went off with Tony Hancock, realized that life with Tony Hancock was a fucking living nightmare because he was a paranoid drunk depressive at that point.
ChrisThat seemed exciting. I love Hancock.
AdamBut I wouldn't have wanted to hang around with him.
AdamThat's that's another.
AdamBut anyway.
AdamBut yeah, so she ended up going back to John and he was like again, there was no sort of like.
ChrisWell, welcome back.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt was.
AdamYeah, pretty much.
Adam
AdamBut I mean, he was where was it when he died? Well, his last words were credit he often said to be it was all rather lovely really.
Adamwere apparently his last words.
AdamSo I think he was just a very nice gentle.
AdamA a gentleman.
AdamYou know,
AdamI think he was just a very nice, calm sort of easy going diet.
AdamAnd.
Adam
AdamHis his own.
AdamHis own insistence.
AdamJoan took out a notice and an obituary notice in 'The Times'.
AdamWhich read, John Le Mesurier wishes it to be known that he conked out on the 15th of November.
AdamHe sadly misses his.
AdamFriends and family.
Adam
AdamAnd this is.
AdamThis is one of my favorite stories about John Le Mes is that he won a best actor Bafta in 1972.
Adamfor a straight role in a 'Play For Today' episode called 'Traitor'.
Adam
AdamAnd after he won, he sat in the audience and lit up a massive fucking joint and the cameras had to keep cutting around him because every time they cut back they just had the thing with the joint flaming.
AdamAnd you know, and everyone was like.
AdamPrincess Anne was attending.
AdamYou can't be smoking a joint.
AdamBut.
AdamBasically, the whole thing boiled down to, they can't throw him out.
AdamHe just won best actor.
AdamSo.
AdamIt's just.
AdamBut he was.
AdamYeah, I mean and and obviously just like in so many.
AdamYou know, so many comedy things, not just like that Dad's Army, but he was in like loads of Hancock stuff.
AdamAnd 'Ripping Yarns' and.
AdamYeah, 'Spaceman and King Arthur'.
AdamAnd 'The Wrong' the 'Law'.
AdamAnd 'Pink Panther'.
AdamAnd.
AdamHe it's weird to see him as a butler.
AdamBecause he's usually either medics or judges seem to be he's kind of the roles that he tends to get.
Adam
AdamApparently also.
AdamAnd I didn't know this.
AdamApparently originally him and Arthur Lowe were meant to play the opposite character in 'Dad's Army'.
AdamAnd John Le Mesurier sort of like.
AdamOh.
AdamI imagine what a fucking disaster that would have been.
AdamBecause I think I think to be honest, I think it's a bit like Johnny that the film 'Johnny Dangerously'.
AdamYeah, someone slapped me once.
AdamOnce, yes.
AdamSo.
AdamCertainly not in.
AdamMost versions of it.
AdamBut I think the and obviously you don't see much dog, to be honest, I think they do they sort of follow the jaws thing of probably realizing that the dog's not going to be great.
AdamSo they.
AdamStick to a lot of good howling and actually I do like the way everyone reacts.
AdamLike everyone reacts kind of well.
AdamIn that sort of sense of like everyone's kind of well, no, what no what is that?
AdamYou know what I mean.
AdamIt's like it's like scared and curious.
Adam
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd I think that and again it's it's sort of nice to see that this version of it pretty much sticks.
Adampretty closely to the to the story in many ways.
AdamI mean, they changed the ending slightly, but then even down to that, it's kind of.
Adamprobably a good thing for the people who knew the story.
AdamThat you see this other version of it because otherwise, you know, it's sort of.
AdamYou're like, well, I might as well have read the fucking thing.
AdamI don't know.
AdamSo.
Adam
AdamInterestingly, this is the this is the first film version in color.
LeeOh.
AdamSo it was the first time that Holmes was in in glorious Technicolor.
Adam
AdamBut also, and this was something I hadn't realized.
Adamit's the first time that it's done as a period piece.
LeeOkay.
AdamBecause.
LeeThank you.
AdamI don't know if you caught Claire.
LeeNo.
Adam
Adamat the word period there.
AdamBut that reader is why.
LeeI married.
AdamHer.
Adambut.
AdamYeah, so it's.
AdamBecause.
AdamI think.
AdamThis is the first time when you'd got to a point where Holmes actually is of a different era.
AdamSo a lot of the adaptations.
AdamBecause I mean, Conan Doyle was writing the stories up until about 19.
Adam1913, 1914, I think.
AdamYou know, he was pretty much just up to the eve of the First World War, he was writing Sherlock Holmes.
AdamSo a lot of the film adaptations.
Adamare contemporary because at that point Sherlock Holmes was kind of contemporary.
AdamIt wasn't, you know, it wasn't as.
AdamWhereas this is the first time that they'd actually gone, right, so we'll set it in the Victorian era.
AdamRather than.
AdamYou know, oh, it's.
AdamPresent day, much the same way as all the Stephen King adaptations now.
AdamIt's like, well, anything that's set in the fifties we'll do it in the eighties.
Adamyou know.
AdamBut up until but for a while they just didn't bother, but now it's so much time has passed that it's like, right, that's going to be weird if someone's having a flashback to the fifties.
Adamyou know.
AdamWho's the young character in this or whatever.
AdamSo,
AdamYeah, so this is the first sort of period version of it.
AdamAs well, which is an interesting.
AdamAgain, something I hadn't realized.
AdamI think it was like Kim Newman mentioned it.
Adamon like one of the extras or something.
AdamBut
AdamYeah, it was like, oh yeah, shit, this is thinking about it.
AdamBecause I know that because that's the thing you've got like the the Basil Basil Rathbone Sherlock Holmes series.
AdamBut they are all.
Adamcontemporary because they were like sort of 1920s or whatever like that.
AdamSo they weren't actually that far removed from Holmes.
AdamSo they just accepted that.
AdamSo there were certain things in there that weren't in the stories like say modern telephones or something like that.
AdamYou know, it's sort of much more but that was just seen as.
AdamOh yeah, well.
AdamThat's what we'd have now.
AdamRather than, oh yeah, let's go back and look at this from a I suppose it's a bit more difficult at that point as well.
AdamWhen you're like sort of only 15 years out of something.
AdamIt's like.
AdamWe've got to make this period place.
AdamCan you remember what we had them then?
AdamNo, probably not.
Adam
JenniferWell, phones in horror films now, isn't it?
JenniferWell, like, at what point do they need to get some sort of plot where.
JenniferOh, the mobile phone has disappeared, otherwise it's not going to work because they'll just phone up the police and they'll be fixed.
ChrisYeah, I think we mentioned that before.
ChrisLike battery running out, making a point of we've got plenty of batteries.
ChrisWhat was it?
ChrisIt was 'Blair Witch', wasn't it?
ChrisYeah.
JenniferOh, I've lost my battery. Oh, it's broken. It's yeah.
AdamSo.
AdamI think.
LeeI think the other thing I love about Sherlock Holmes is how much it's led to like an expanded universe.
LeeSo obviously after the the Conan Doyle books, so many other people, so I went through a phase at the beginning of lockdown.
LeeI read all of the George Mann.
LeeThe guy who does all the like the steampunk books.
LeeWrote all the Sherlock Holmes.
LeeAnd they are exceptional.
LeeAnd that then led me into reading 'The Warlock Holmes', but I read the first one.
LeeI am going to read the others.
LeeHave you heard of Adam?
AdamI don't think I have, actually, no.
JenniferJennifer is showing it to the camera now.
LeeSo basically it's the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but the idea is that he is actually a warlock and the police are after him, so he's having to help Scotland Yard because if he doesn't, they're going to lock him up for all of his crimes against humanity.
LeeAnd the is Transylvania.
LeeHe's actually a vampire.
LeeAnd his henchman is like a golem type, but like they're really, really funny.
LeeBut they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist and they're really entertaining.
LeeSo again, it's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes.
LeeAs you were saying, Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.
LeeYou know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more.
LeeLike there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying, well actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.
Leeyeah, incredible stuff.
JenniferThat they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz.
Jenniferwho writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories, there we go, but yeah, so his one, you know, 'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed.
AdamOh, yes.
AdamOh.
JenniferFrom the Conan Doyle estates to to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes, yeah.
AdamYeah.
JenniferWhich is.
AdamWell they did.
AdamThey did a similar thing with James Bond because obviously Ian Fleming wrote the originally wrote the James Bond books and so there are official and unofficial sort of takes on that as well.
AdamI know there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good Holmes crossover stuff.
Adambecause there's like Holmes and Lovecraft ones.
LeeOh yeah, we've got a 'Study in Emerald', haven't we.
LeeWhich is.
LeeLike which is a a graphic novel.
LeeBut yeah.
LeeIt's Homes basically fighting a I don't want to give.
AdamI don't remember now.
LeeI do.
LeeBut I don't want to give away cuz I can't remember if it's a twist, but yeah, it's very H P Lovecraft once it all gets into it.
AdamI'm quite, I'm quite intrigued as well.
AdamBecause I know that there is a, I think there's a collection of.
Adampeople have done Sherlock Holmes and 'The Hellraiser' universe.
LeeOh.
LeeDidn't know that.
AdamWhich again, you know, I think there's a.
AdamI think the good.
AdamBecause I mean, the good thing is, I mean, it basically is as soon as you're out of copyright.
AdamYou can do what you like.
AdamYou know.
AdamYou can go to town because actually, I mean, this is the weird thing when they did the Jeremy Brett adaptations, they started in 1983.
Adambecause that was the first time that Sherlock Holmes had become public domain because it's like a hundred years.
LeeOh.
AdamSo the first published works was.
Adam1883.
AdamAnd so they started adapting from that position because up until that point, the Sherlock Holmes estate and Conan Doyle's estate had never let ITV do it.
AdamWhich is ironic.
AdamWhen you consider consider how well 'The Granada' series is.
AdamBut yeah, they wouldn't let ITV do it because they were a bit sort of ITV, you know, they're not going to do it properly.
AdamAre they?
AdamThey're probably going to put a page three bird in there and vote Labour.
LeeAnd then.
LeeIt ends up being to a lot of us, myself and Adam, I believe, included.
LeeThe definitive version of of Sherlock Holmes.
AdamWithout a shadow of a doubt.
AdamAnd this is something obviously we'll come back to on our subsequent.
ChrisI was going to ask, but yeah, that.
AdamI think.
AdamYeah.
LeeSo Adam.
LeeWe're going to start wrapping up.
LeeWould you like to tell people what we're going to cover on our next episode?
AdamOur next episode is going to be a bit of a free for all in a way or it's certainly three the number.
Adamso we're going to look at three additional versions of 'The Hound of the Baskervilles'.
AdamThere will be the original original Jesus.
LeeWhat original?
AdamThe fuck this a fucking book you twat.
AdamAnyway.
AdamRight.
AdamAnd seen.
Adam
AdamYes, we're going to look at three versions.
AdamWe're going to look at the Jeremy Brett version that was on ITV in England, which is like a TV movie version as part of 'The Return of Sherlock Holmes' series, which was 1988.
Adamwe're going to look.
AdamAt Peter Cook and Dudley Moore's version from 1978, which surprisingly follows the plot quite a lot.
LeeYeah.
AdamDespite not following a lot of it at all.
AdamAnd also 'The Hounds of Baskerville', the Sherlock adaption of it, which was to my memory, you know, that'll be the first time I've watched it in a long time.
AdamAnd to my memory they did a very good job of it and they also made a very good job.
AdamAgain of that thing of being, right, people know Sherlock Holmes so we've got to do this faithfully.
AdamBut in such.
AdamA way that it's new to people.
AdamYeah.
AdamProperly.
LeeWhich is what Gatiss is fantastic at, exactly the same as he did with Dracula.
LeeBut I'm sure we'll.
Chrisdid he actually write that as well then?
ChrisIs that I didn't.
AdamHe's him and Stephen Moffat.
Adamtogether and basically, it's also slightly the reason why Stephen Moffat's not true when a bit you know at one point I think his mother died.
AdamYeah.
ChrisThat's true.
AdamHalfway through series three of Sherlock.
AdamAnd series I don't know, eight or nine.
AdamOf Doctor Who.
Adamor was it yeah, like but yeah, basically so I think there was a a lot of fallout in that sort of sense.
AdamAnd and also I do suspect that's why Mark Gatiss wasn't naturally.
AdamSelected as the person to take over.
AdamFrom Stephen Moffat doing Doctor Who.
AdamBecause I think, I think Mark Gatiss.
AdamJust sat there.
AdamAnd just went, well, fuck that for a game of soldiers and just seen what you've done for the past two years.
AdamOf like nearly burned yourself out completely.
Adam
AdamSo.
AdamYeah.
LeeI think the other thing I love about Sherlock Holmes is how much it's led to like an expanded universe.
LeeSo obviously after the the Conan Doyle books, so many other people.
LeeSo I went through a phase at the beginning of lockdown, I read all of the George Mann, the guy who does all the like the steampunk books.
LeeWrote all the Sherlock Holmes.
LeeAnd they are exceptional.
LeeAnd that then led me into reading 'The Warlock Holmes', but I read the first one.
LeeI am going to read the others.
LeeHave you heard of Adam?
AdamI don't think I have, actually, no.
JenniferJennifer is showing it to the camera now.
LeeSo basically it's the stories of Sherlock Holmes, but the idea is that he is actually a warlock and the police are after him, so he's having to help Scotland Yard because if he doesn't, they're going to lock him up for all of his crimes against humanity.
LeeAnd the is Transylvania.
LeeHe's actually a vampire.
LeeAnd his henchman is like a golem type, but like they're really, really funny.
LeeBut they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist and they're really entertaining.
LeeSo again, it's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes.
LeeAs you were saying, Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.
LeeYou know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more, like there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying.
LeeWell actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.
Leeyeah, incredible stuff.
JenniferBut they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz.
Jenniferwho writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories.
AdamOh, yes.
AdamOh.
JenniferYeah, there you go.
JenniferBut yeah, so his one.
JenniferYou know,
Jennifer'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed from the Conan Doyle estate.
JenniferTo to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes.
AdamYeah.
JenniferWhich is, you know, one of.
AdamYeah.
AdamWell they.
AdamThey did a similar thing with.
AdamJames Bond because obviously Ian Fleming wrote the originally wrote the James Bond books.
AdamAnd so there are official and unofficial sort of takes on that as well.
AdamI know there's a lot of good, there's a lot of good Holmes crossover stuff.
Adambecause there's like Holmes and Lovecraft ones.
LeeOh yeah, we've got a 'Study in Emerald', haven't we.
LeeWhich is.
LeeLike which is a a graphic novel, but yeah, is Homes basically fighting a.
LeeI don't want to.
LeeI don't want to.
LeeI do, but I don't want to give away cuz I can't remember if it's a twist.
LeeBut yeah, it's very H P Lovecraft once it all.
LeeGets into it.
LeeAnd the is Transylvania, he's actually a vampire.
LeeAnd his henchman is like a golem type.
LeeBut like they're really, really funny.
LeeBut they've taken the original stories and given them this whole twist.
LeeAnd they're really entertaining.
LeeSo again.
LeeIt's another one that's like once you get to the end of Sherlock Holmes, as you were saying Adam, you know, where people like, oh no.
LeeYou know, if you've killed him off that's the end and everyone was hankering for more, like there's been a resurgence in the last twenty years of people saying.
LeeWell actually in a kind of H P Lovecraft type way, we can take that character and do so much with it.
Leeyeah, incredible stuff.
JenniferBut they, same way they do with Agatha Christie, they allow authors to use the story so this one, this is Anthony Horowitz who writes 'Midsomer Murders' stories.
AdamOh, yes.
AdamOh.
JenniferYeah, there.
JenniferYou go.
JenniferBut yeah, so his one.
JenniferYou know, 'The House of Silk' is kind of, you know, allowed from the Conan Doyle estate.
JenniferTo to write sort of new versions if you like to be to be official Sherlock Holmes.
AdamYeah.
JenniferWhich is.
AdamWell they did.
