The Autopsy of Jane Doe
00:39:07
About
How the (draining) tables have turned! In this episode Chris introduces Adam and Lee to a film, 2016’s “The Autopsy of Jane Doe”. A film in which we learn that toe bells are the must have accessory for every fashionable corpse; that cloth, toxic vegetation and teeth are not an ideal diet; and that even the most rational of us can only take so much weird shit before finally saying “let’s get the fuck out of here.” Director André Øvredal’s English-language debut is strikingly different to his previous feature “Troll Hunter”; the extensive outdoor location work is replaced by basically one interior for the majority of the runtime; and the tone has shifted from keenly observed comedy to a taunt atmosphere of foreboding and dread. What the two films do share is an inherent quality, a keen but understated knowledge of folklore and a perfect cast. Of this small but amazing company, special praise has to go to Olwen Catherine Kelly as the title character; whose near supernatural level of stillness is an incredible display of self-discipline. Having been on both their watch lists for ten years; “The Autopsy of Jane Doe” is a salutary lesson to Lee and Adam not to sleep on a film with good word of mouth, with the only downside of this viewing being that they’re kicking themselves they hadn’t got here sooner. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
Questions
Answered from what Lee, Adam and Chris say in the episode. Open an answer to read their exact words.
Is The Autopsy of Jane Doe worth watching?
The hosts highly recommend the film, with Lee expressing how incredibly impressed he was and Adam calling it a great movie. Lee also explicitly tells the listeners to go and check it out.
Lee Because yeah, I absolutely couldn't have been more impressed with this. It was absolutely amazing.
Adam Yeah, and and like I said, I don't want I don't want to that is literally my only negative with it. Because I think it's a flicking great film.
Lee Go and check out the Autopsy of Jane Doe.
What is The Autopsy of Jane Doe really about?
The hosts discuss how the film threads a deeper meaning about how the victim was treated in the past. It highlights how an innocent person was turned into a monster through a combination of ritual and torture, and how this past mistreatment continues to affect people in the present.
Chris But that's once you fully understand. I mean, the amount of horror films we've watched where it's got this essentially, you could almost feel it as kind of woke. Um, like it it's saying look, this happened in the past, people were awful to her and it's still affecting us and it's like, how do we deal with it, you can't easily, like this is this has happened, we've kind of have to accept it. But it's funny how they can put something like that in this and you almost don't even need to notice it and yet it threads throughout that it's all about how she's been treated. And it's still going to affect people in the present.
Adam Where it was like, actually, no, this is this is an innocent person who has been. through through a combination of ritual and torture and everything has been turned into what they said she was in the first place.
What happens at the end of The Autopsy of Jane Doe?Spoilers
The hosts describe the ending where Sheriff Burke decides to pass Jane Doe off to the next county. They interpret this as a cycle where the same mistakes and tragic events have been repeating for years because people keep passing her on to become someone else's problem.
Adam I also I also love the fact that I mean, obviously it it pushes again when you've got that ending where Burke's like, right, we're going to shove them off to the next county.
Adam And like they've said about this is like a problem that's been rattling around.
Adam For years where people are just passing passing Jane Doe on. And it's becoming someone else's problem and everything else like that.
Adam And similarly enough is you've got that mystery and even though none of that is given any explanation, it is because you're like, right, so the same shit has played out. And the same sort of moments and mistakes and etcetera just all sort of gone on.
Transcript
Show full transcript
LeeGood evening and welcome to horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamI'm Adam.
LeeAnd we're here this evening for a spoiler and swearing field, I'm pretty certain.
AdamYep.
LeeThe autopsy of Jane Doe.
AdamGain.
LeeThe autopsy of Jane Doe from 2016.
LeeWhich, I mean, in my mind this came out a couple of years ago and I keep going, I will get around to it, I will get around to it. And I was like, you know, a decade and I still haven't flicking put my finger on it.
LeeSo I'm so glad we have.
AdamHmm.
LeeYes.
LeeSo again, 126 minutes, nice short film.
LeeGive people the very vague setup.
LeeUh, Brian Cox is a amazing actor. Sorry, he's a pathologist, um, who uh, gets a corpse come to him from the sheriff late at night for a bit of a rush job and he says, there's something weird with this. I need you to do it for me this evening. It's a bit urgent.
AdamAmazing actor. Sorry.
LeeUm, and basically his son comes back to help him and the two of them carry out the autopsy and the more they discover, the weirder things get and.
LeeYeah, I this is the first time watching for all of us, is that correct?
AdamNot for Chris, I don't think.
ChrisNo.
LeeOh, that's right.
LeeSorry, no, I said this last time, yes, Chris had seen it before.
LeeIt was for so Adam, would you like to kick off with your thoughts to begin with?
AdamYes, because I'm exactly the same story as you, Lee.
AdamIt was.
AdamOh, I'll get around to that.
AdamAnd that came out a couple of years ago.
AdamIt's now 10 years ago.
AdamAnd that is slightly concerning.
AdamI also had not put two and two together that it was uh Andre Overdoll who did Troll Hunter.
ChrisI mean,
LeeAnd would have pushed it up my list though if I.
ChrisThey're very different.
AdamExactly, two and two together.
LeeBut you are right, these two films couldn't be more different.
AdamOh.
AdamMate, it's yeah, it's a real, it's a real sort of like night and day.
AdamUm, which if anything I think says, I think that says a lot to his credit that he's got.
LeeYeah.
Adamthe chops for both.
AdamUm, I mean Brian Cox.
AdamJust to uh, just to well, just to tell you about time flying.
AdamUm, last time we had Brian Cox on the show, obviously we didn't have him on the show, but I'm going to call him friend of the show, Brian Cox, because quite frankly, I love the man.
AdamAnd um, do you remember when I took a picture of him at uh.
LeeYeah, frightfest.
AdamFright Fest.
AdamDidn't realize I had my flash on and the poor man was quite startled.
AdamHe was just talking to someone, he was he was on a chair.
AdamAnd I was like, Brian Cox, there's Brian Cox, going to take a picture, said it said there's Brian Cox.
AdamAnd yeah, just the whole flicking room lit up like a.
ChrisYeah.
AdamA crack of lightning.
AdamUm, but uh, yeah, but that's besides the point.
AdamBut yeah, last time we had Brian Cox uh uh uh feature in one of our films was Trick R Treat.
LeeHmm.
AdamWhich and what if you want to feel old.
AdamEpisode 11.
LeeOh, flip.
LeeDo you know what this man is such a god, how have we not covered him in 200 plus episodes?
AdamHe doesn't do, in fairness, he doesn't do that much that sort of falls into.
LeeNo, that's true.
AdamWe'll house in a way.
AdamUm, but but that was uh that was October 2017.
LeeOh my God.
ChrisYeah, that that was a few years.
LeeWe were doing it this long.
AdamMust have been.
AdamThat that was a shocker to me.
AdamBecause I was like, oh I'll look back cuz I knew I was thinking, oh yeah, Trick R Treat.
AdamYeah, he did that.
AdamAnd I knew it was an early one.
AdamBut also if you remember we really essentially we did the stupidest thing ever because we were like, we were like, right, Halloween's coming up, so we did all the really good Halloween films.
ChrisYeah.
AdamLike in our first flicking year.
AdamAnd we've scrabbled around since and got to the point of being like, we're like now, no, it's Halloween every day, so we don't really make a fuss about Halloween on the show.
AdamBecause we did.
LeeYeah.
AdamWe did Trick R Treat, Halloween 3 and um, oh uh, Ghost Watch.
LeeNo.
LeeOh God, yeah, we did.
AdamThat was our that was our Halloween triple bill that we did in the first year.
LeeOh, hell.
LeeYeah, talk about shoot your load in the first two minutes.
LeeLike, what the flick.
LeeWhat were we thinking?
LeeI tell you what we were thinking, we were thinking, I'll be surprised if this goes 30 episodes.
ChrisYeah, goes.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisLet's get them out now.
AdamAlso, just as a just in a little sort of a little moment of interest is so obviously when I'm doing my notes and stuff for the show and everything else like that, I was like.
AdamBrian Cox, I know a load of stuff, I've seen loads of stuff with Brian Cox in, but I was like, right, I want to go through just in case I forget something or whatever like that.
AdamAnd then go, oh, that was a good one, that was a good one.
AdamIn between me looking him up Thursday, or no, Wednesday.
AdamAnd today, um, he's had a film come out last Friday.
LeeOh.
AdamOh my.
LeeI'll tell you what.
AdamAnd and the news that will cheer you up, Lee, is it Super Troopers 3.
LeeOh, nice.
LeeYes, that does cheer me up.
AdamAgain, that was one of those things where you're like.
AdamYou know, I'm I'm always because he was.
Adamthe original Dr. Lecter, the the or the first person to play Hannibal Lecter in Manhunter.
AdamAnd um, you know, I've just loved him in stuff forever.
AdamAnd often.
ChrisEverything he's ever gone near.
AdamYeah, he is he is always he is always a reason to turn up, definitely.
AdamAnd it's really weird because I think over the last, certainly over the last decade, America's woken up.
AdamAnd obviously he's had such a huge thing with uh succession.
AdamWhere everyone's like, who's this amazing guy, Brian Cox?
AdamAnd it's like, but Brian Cox.
AdamBrian Cox before Matt Barry, Brian Cox was the man you hired to swear.
LeeYeah.
LeeYou hire because no one you know, no one quite tells you to flick off like Brian Cox.
LeeSo.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou know, and but again, they sort of like America's really sort of woken up to it, but obviously he was like on he was did I mean obviously he's done loads of films, but he was doing telly for years and stuff like that. And he was um, but yeah, just sort of like the fact and also apparently Martin Sheen had the had the role originally but couldn't do it. I think there was like a scheduling conflict.
ChrisNo.
LeeI don't think that that would.
ChrisGood outcome.
LeeI like Martin Sheen, but I don't see that.
Leeworking in any way, shape or form.
ChrisNot.
LeeNot compared to Brian Cox.
ChrisNo, you don't.
LeeBloody hell.
AdamBecause the weirdest thing is, is I watching it is then it was like, there's a lot of there's a lot of sort of local talent in it, shall we say.
LeeMhm.
LeeFirst of all, cart.
AdamWell, they filmed it in London, they filmed this in London and Kent.
LeeThey really?
AdamYeah.
LeeWhat the heck.
AdamThose exterior, like some of the exterior stuff is a house in Kent.
AdamIt's not, I because it looks right.
LeeWow.
AdamYou know, it does look like but.
LeeI need to find out where that is.
LeeThat's like half an hour down the road.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo obviously, so you've got uh Emma who is Ophelia Lovibond, who was in the very first inside number nine sardines.
LeeHmm.
LeeYeah, oh my God.
LeeIt I knew I recognized her and I couldn't put my finger on why.
LeeThat's why because she's English.
AdamBecause it's a because it's a flawless well, to us, it's a flawless American accent.
AdamIt might not be to Americans, but to us it's a flawless and and she was in like Nathan Barley and Guardians of the Galaxy and stuff like that.
AdamSheriff Burke was in.
AdamUm, Game of Thrones, he was Ramsey Bolton's father, he's Irish.
AdamUm, and he was in Chernobyl.
AdamMy favorite bit of things with the cast though is.
AdamSydney as Stanley the cat and it's uh Sydney's only credit on IMDB and Sydney's trivia just says is a cat.
LeeThat's it.
AdamSo there we go.
AdamBut yeah, but so the.
LeeCat acting of just looking at the camera and immediately.
LeeAs soon as you see the cat for the very first time, you go, he's a prick.
LeeYou know from the very first off.
LeeIt is a prick cat.
LeeAnd he absolutely is a prick cat the whole way through it and I love it.
LeeBut clearly, he's well behaved enough to be an actor.
LeeSo he's not really a prick.
LeeHe just acts like he can be a prick.
AdamYeah, but yeah, but then that that that's true acting.
AdamYou know.
AdamPeople aren't gonna if you if you play murderers really well, no one's going to hang around with you if you are a murderer.
AdamThe same thing.
AdamYou know.
AdamThe same with Sydney, Sydney's presumably, you know.
AdamVery a very very attentive and obedient fellow.
AdamThe um.
AdamI've I've not really seen much with Emil Hirsch in it before.
AdamBut I thought he was great and he's like one of the few bodified Americans in the I think he's the only American in the in the in the thing.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut the weird thing that came up was of all his credits, he voices Jim in the Troll Hunter animated films.
AdamNow and Troll Hunters was not something I was aware of until I was doing the research on Troll Hunter.
AdamAnd I googled Troll Hunter movie and got an animated film going, what?
AdamHang on, no, not that one.
AdamRight, okay.
AdamAnd then I had to sort of backtrack on myself.
AdamSo.
LeeOh.
AdamBut yeah, it's.
AdamI mean, I's no, I was really I was really sort of.
AdamI'm just annoyed that I haven't seen this.
ChrisAnd that's surprising.
AdamAnd and annoyed that stuff had been spoiled.
LeeOh.
LeeSee, I didn't I I'd avoided spoilers, but I was pissed off that I I had I'd waited a decade to see it.
LeeBut equally, because there's nothing good coming out at the moment.
LeeSo suddenly have this drop and then go.
LeeOh, there's so much stuff out there if I if I go back that I have missed.
LeeI think this is the thing.
LeeSo I say I didn't realize it was the guy from Troll Hunter.
LeeI think when I what I did realize was that he'd done.
LeeGive me two seconds, let me just look.
LeeUh, yes.
AdamDemeter.
LeeSo he did the last voyage of Demeter, which I thought was a great concept, but I didn't think it was terribly well done.
LeeUm, and scary stories to tell in the dark.
LeeWhich I didn't like.
LeeI'm going to give it another rewatch because it's one of that I don't understand why I didn't enjoy it, but I definitely didn't.
AdamGotcha.
LeeSo I think that's why I then didn't go back.
LeeBecause then I said, oh, it's that guy, he did Troll, when we then realized I was like, oh, he did Troll Hunter and the other two of his I've seen since, like his bigger budget stuff.
LeeI have not been on board with, so I was like, yeah, maybe all top.
ChrisWe'll find out if you were just in a bad mood.
LeeWell, quite possibly.
LeeBecause yeah, I absolutely couldn't have been more impressed with this.
LeeIt was absolutely amazing.
LeeI loved it.
LeeIt was so creepy.
LeeYeah.
LeeJust yeah, it looked gorgeous.
ChrisIt is the whole thing is so polished.
LeeYeah.
ChrisJust everything works perfectly together, sound effects, visual effects.
ChrisThe the beats are like the cadence as it builds up to each serious full-on scene.
LeeMisdirect as well.
LeeThe whole time I was like, it's a vampire.
ChrisYeah.
LeeDefinitely a vampire, she is definitely a vampire and she is still alive.
LeeOh, no, she isn't, she's a dead witch. What the flick.
LeeLike it's just amazingly good, amazingly.
AdamYeah, cuz I think I think I'd had it spoiled because it turned up on a list of witch films that you should see.
LeeOh, shiz.
AdamAnd it was like, but and the weirdest part was is that there was midway through they got to the they got to the child lungs and they were listing all the sort of things that it would be the causes of what had happened to her and it and what she was the signs that the body's exhibiting.
AdamAnd Claire just went, oh, so she's a witch then.
LeeAh.
AdamAnd I was like, well, well done.
AdamAnd but yeah, unfortunately it was like so, yeah, so I had that sort of I had that spoiled for me, unfortunately.
AdamThe one thing I would say, and this is the to be honest, literally the only sort of negative or anything on it is there's a few.
AdamI think to start with, there's a few too many jump scares.
AdamWhen this, I think builds in such a creepy way.
LeeIt doesn't.
AdamYou didn't need it.
AdamAnd I I I understand it could be you don't know, it's like it could be production.
AdamYou know, it could be interference from elsewhere, it could be that that was what was in the script and everything.
AdamBecause they weren't too sure how it was going to come out or whatever like that.
AdamAnd I really don't think you need it.
AdamBecause I think at that point, you're already the dread worked far better than.
AdamLike turning up the soundtrack really quickly, you know, for without cause.
LeeYou.
LeeYou are absolutely right.
LeeI I say, I hadn't thought that.
LeeI didn't but now you've said it.
LeeYou're because I was there was part of me that was like, oh there's a lot of jump scares but it doesn't annoy me as much as it sometimes does.
LeeAnd I think that's why because it wasn't hinging purely on it.
LeeYou're right, therefore, it didn't need the jump steps because it was doing a good enough job.
LeeIt didn't have to.
LeeI mean, I know we always say they're, you know, like a cheap way of doing things.
LeeYeah, that's the thing.
LeeThey'd ramp the they'd ramp the uncomfortableness up enough that you didn't need to put those cheats in there.
LeeBut you're yeah, I hadn't realized that, but you are absolutely right.
LeeThat's.
AdamYeah, and and like I said, I don't want I don't want to that is literally my only negative with it.
AdamBecause I think it's a flicking great film.
AdamAnd that sort of the.
AdamEeriness and the sort of yeah, uncomfortableness that it increases as it goes and you've got so many and also back on.
AdamTalking about actors, Olwin Catherine Kelly who plays Jane Doe.
LeeYeah.
AdamFlicking hell.
AdamThat is.
LeeHow just how.
LeeI don't understand how she can move.
AdamSo so like Andre Ovradol is like, no, she's the most important actor in it.
AdamShe did the hardest job and everything.
AdamUh, I mean, he was saying that for a start, she made everyone comfortable with the fact that.
AdamThey are like there's a naked woman like there the whole time and you know, she didn't she was very good at sort of professionally.
AdamAnd sort of just through her personality making sure that people were comfortable with that fact.
AdamShe was comfortable with that fact.
AdamApparently, she's a model.
AdamSo she'd had sort of she'd done like shoots in sort of basically either nude or near to nude.
AdamAnd was able to sort of use that to sort of deal with it.
AdamBut you know, obviously she had some misgivings in accepting the role, but apparently she was the first person they saw.
AdamAnd first person cast and she used uh she's like.
AdamUh she does yoga.
AdamAnd basically and so she could slow her breathing down to being basically invisible.
ChrisOh, that's interesting.
LeeThis is what I was trying to work out because I was like, you know, when you're watching something and then it has a frozen frame.
LeeYou can tell it's a frozen frame.
LeeBut I knew it wasn't doing that.
LeeYeah.
LeeBut I could not see her breathe, blink, like literally nothing.
LeeAnd I I did spend 10 minutes just being like.
LeeHow is she doing that? How is she not visibly breathing?
LeeShe must be.
LeeShe even when it's shot where it's kind of shot, you know, like it'll be a there was a lot of very low down shots where you just it's looking up at Brian Cox and the.
LeeAnd it's just over her shoulder or whatever.
LeeAgain, even breathing, catching that shoulder and her neck, you would see it and she just didn't move at all and it was absolutely amazing.
AdamIt is an.
AdamIncredible like discipline to be able to do that.
AdamAnd like so it was like the the shoot was five weeks and she was basically there for about 10 hours a day.
AdamLying on a flicking marble slab.
AdamAnd you're like, that is.
LeeIn Kent.
AdamYeah, in Kent.
LeeIt's cold in Kent.
AdamThat's cold.
ChrisThis would make for a great behind the scenes.
AdamThe way the weather's been the way the weather's been lately, I was like.
LeeOh yeah, true.
AdamI could lay on a cold slab for 10 hours.
AdamYeah.
LeeThat'd be alright.
AdamI think with me it's just been the trouble as I keep nodding off.
AdamIt's just been be halfway through Brian Cox.
AdamYou know.
ChrisSnoring.
AdamExactly.
AdamBut.
LeeYou're dribbling, Adam, you're dribbling again.
LeeYou're dribbling.
AdamDid I say anything ridiculous?
AdamNo.
LeeI've someone's dribbled in my mouth.
Adamsomeone's dribbled in my mouth.
AdamUm, but and and but it was because he was like, well, we can so obviously there's certain prosthetics and stuff like that.
ChrisThey didn't really cut her open.
AdamYou know, for.
AdamObviously, you know.
AdamWasn't in the job description.
AdamUm, but.
AdamIt was because like you said, like, you can see you can see a stilled frame.
AdamYou can especially when they're having to do such close up work.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou can see a a model, you know, or because if if you'd have had like.
AdamA body laid out, you could probably get away with like a cast mannequin.
AdamBecause you see you see him in films a lot where there's very accurate like very well done and stuff like that.
AdamBut there is, you know, for close up, you hair and paws and stuff like that.
AdamYou can, you know, and it's like.
AdamYeah, it's just an incredible just it's an it is a performance.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt is a.
AdamYou know, it's not, you know, there's the old classic of sort of like, well, I was a body in that, so it was an easy job.
AdamNot in this flicking circumstance.
LeeAbsolutely not.
LeeAnd and as you say, I mean, even even the even the shots where, as you say, there was the the stuff where they did have the prosthetics and stuff and they sort of cut her open.
LeeAgain, you can see her face the whole time.
LeeSo that's that obviously is something that was laid over her.
LeeBut it everything in this just looked so sharp and so perfect.
LeeI think there was like one scene maybe.
LeeUm, where there where like basically where the rib cage was right open and you could see it wasn't the actor.
LeeIt was.
LeeBut I mean even that, I mean totally you'd forgive that because it was the.
LeeBut it just looked amazing.
LeeThe yeah, like yeah the effects and everything were just.
LeeI'm assuming this was a fairly smallish budget.
AdamI assumed it was.
LeeIt looked incredible.
LeeAnd it sounded immense.
LeeThat like you said earlier, Adam, with the not just on the jump scares, but like.
LeeThe building in the background and stuff, like it was just you kind of almost.
AdamThe metal fatigue of the lift and things like that.
AdamWhich is.
AdamYeah.
ChrisAnd and then the use of like the radio sounds and and bells, like just the perfect amount to build and yeah, creating the the atmosphere.
ChrisWithout necessarily the jump scare.
AdamAnd I I actually liked that it was quite a way in.
ChrisHmm.
Adamthat both both father and son end up reacting like, right, this is weird, let's get the flick out of here.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know.
ChrisBut you've got to say doing that job.
ChrisYou've got past quite an amount of this is weird, isn't it?
ChrisBecause yeah, we're here cutting someone up and studying their insides.
ChrisWe've already gone past quite a a you know, threshold for where most people are not hanging around.
ChrisSo it's like at what point do they say it's now gone too weird.
AdamYeah.
LeeThat's a great point.
AdamThat's why I was saying with Claire.
AdamIt's because.
AdamIt's like, you know, it is a it's it's a job, it's what you're doing every day.
AdamThe bodies are going to be very even the extreme ones, the bodies aren't going to be, you know, they're they're not.
AdamYou will have I think it's an industry where you would have disabused yourself of not of thoughts of the supernatural and creepiness around bodies.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisAnd in fact, this is the only connection I can make with Troll Hunter.
ChrisIt's like it's your job, you're getting on with it.
ChrisBut.
ChrisAt some at some point you're calling it a day.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeI one of the things I did love particularly, yeah, was the scene where Emma is saying, I want to see the bodies.
LeeAnd Brian Cox.
LeeHe's like.
LeeYeah, go on.
LeeFlicking shower.
LeeShe wants to see it, you let us see it.
LeeIt's just he's.
ChrisYeah.
LeeHe's knowing that she really doesn't actually want to see what she thinks she's going to see.
LeeAnd it's just it even that was just so brilliantly done and so genuine.
LeeIt yeah, it really makes you feel for for all of those characters really.
AdamI also I also felt that I think it was a very um, I think it was a very good.
AdamIt's funnily enough, it's something that's been coming up a lot in films that we've been talking about that.
AdamI I think that that the father-son relationship, I felt very was very accurate.
AdamAnd very true.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisAnd they didn't rush into giving it away.
ChrisI felt like that was well timed that again that happened after intense moments, you learn more and it's like, oh, they're, you know, they're struggling with something and it's almost yeah, it's kind of mimicking what's going on.
AdamAnd because I mean, even even down to the fact where you know.
AdamIt's like the part where Brian Cox is pushing uh Emil Hirsch behind him.
LeeHmm.
AdamEven though it's like, well clearly of the two he's probably going to be the more physically capable.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut you're still his dad.
AdamSo you're still, do you know what I mean?
AdamYou're still protecting him.
AdamBut it but no, I just thought that I thought the relationship was very good.
AdamAnd it's like like we were saying with no open things like that.
AdamIt's an interesting dynamic, like family is always quite an interesting dynamic for a horror film.
AdamBecause it isn't you don't necessarily have to get on.
LeeHmm.
AdamYou you are together, you are linked and, you know, that is.
AdamBut you aren't necessarily.
AdamYou're not there because you've got the same hobbies and interests.
AdamOr whatever like that.
AdamYou know, you are just.
AdamThese are the people that you are with and you know, for you deal with it.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah, all their all their faults as much as all the reasons that you love them, but they're sort of like, you know, it's I think it just makes a real interesting dynamic for that sort of thing.
AdamRather than just, you know, you.
AdamBecause there's a lot of things where you think.
AdamWell, just flick it off, you know.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamDo you know what I mean?
LeeIt's true.
AdamIt's like.
AdamLike when it's like teenagers, teenagers go out to a cabin and all get hacked up and there's always like one where you're just like, yeah, but the rest of them have been absolute flicking knobs to you, let them flicking choke.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
LeeIt is, it it definitely gives that.
LeeThe fact that he comes back, that is the thing.
LeeIt's he's got a day, he's going to go out.
LeeThey're literally on the doorstep.
LeeAnd he's like, you know what, I just.
LeeAnd that's the thing, if it wasn't father and son, there's no why I'd have been buying that for for anything.
AdamNo.
LeeBut yeah, the fact that it is his dad, you're like, oh, that's why he's got that.
LeeAnd he's like, he's he's going back instead of enjoying himself and he's pushing his date back to 11 o'clock that night.
AdamAnd it's and it's also because you've got from that earlier exchange that you realize that he's he wants to not impress is probably the is not like, but he wants, you know, he's like, obviously his dad has taught him, so he's he's kind of like he wants to be like, no, I I can do this, you know, I can do this, you know, and I can help and I can be of use, you know, and I and presumably will be taking this job when you retire.
AdamAnd, you know.
ChrisVery.
AdamIt's it's all that sort of yeah, the weird sort of like responsibilities and things like that.
LeeAnd as you say, that absolutely is what makes it make sense.
LeeHe clearly wants his dad to retire, he wants his dad to be comfortable with him, that's why he's like, I don't want to sack this date off, I don't want to cancel this, but I want my dad to know that if I'm ever in the position that he's in, I will also do what needs to be done.
LeeYeah, yeah.
LeeAnd it it just.
LeeMade the whole thing feel so utterly.
LeeLike connected and genuine.
LeeThat yeah, it's.
Leebeautifully written.
Leebeautifully everything about it.
AdamWhat I I economy is the word that I want to use.
AdamBecause I think not not only is it just such a small cast, I think it's done in such a way that it's not there's no sort of that they are both pathologists.
AdamSo or like you know, so they are speaking to each other.
AdamThey're not having to go, oh, well, this means blah, blah, blah, you know what I mean, they they are but not in any way that's alienating to an audience who let's face it, aren't all going to be pathologists or whatever like that.
AdamYou know, you don't feel you don't feel left out.
AdamBut also you don't feel it doesn't feel clunky in any way that they're having.
LeeNo.
AdamYou know, there's no as you know, this.
AdamUm, so and and but yeah, I just think that through an economy of dialogue.
AdamAnd an economy of cast.
AdamBecause let's face it, this is essentially there's there's five people and one of them does not have a line of dialogue.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd it's.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd I I love I think that there's a like I love I love that opening because I love for what for one of the main expressions.
AdamAs we know, is flicking Kent.
AdamBut like I love cold America.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know, when it when it's like actually this looks flicking it looks flicking miserable there.
AdamThis is.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou know, you're.
AdamYou're assuming sort of like specific Northwest, it's going to be flicking.
AdamYou know, there's just rain and and, you know, it's it's bleak.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd, you know, so and that opening sort of like mystery of well, there's the house, you know, looks like they were trying to get out and things like that.
AdamAnd I think that was enough, that's enough of a hook.
ChrisIt really is.
AdamBut unlike a lot of things that you know, I mean sort of like, say, you know, they don't get into it's weird because you've actually got the whole thing that that is part of the dynamic between.
AdamUm, Austin and Tommy is the fact that Tommy's like, no, we state the facts, theories are for the police, you know, the.
LeeYeah.
ChrisThat's it, because it's going to be so tempting, you know.
ChrisEveryone gets curious, you want to try to figure it out.
AdamJust the flicking link, man.
AdamIt would be, I think it would be impossible and that's another reason obviously that he goes back is because it's like, well, this is a weird flicking.
AdamThis is a weird flicking body.
AdamThis isn't just your average like, you know, natural causes or whatever like that, you know, they've turned up and they've they there's a panic going on and whatever like that.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd but yeah, I mean, I just no, I'm severely impressed.
AdamI think I'm.
AdamLike I say, I'm just just it's a shame that I've.
ChrisSadly for 10 years.
ChrisNo, you said you said yeah, 10 years.
ChrisI mean, like watching this now, if you said this came out a year or two ago, yeah, I'd believe you.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamOh, yeah.
ChrisNothing about it, nothing dates it at all.
LeeIt's just.
LeeAnd I've got I've got to say the one thing that really got me.
LeeUm, it was that second skin shot, got to say it.
AdamOh, what.
LeeYeah.
LeeJust when yeah, when they peeled the other layer back and it's got all the sort of markings.
AdamThe cabalistic markings.
LeeJust such a beautiful detail and reveal, it just yeah, that was the point where I was like.
LeeYeah, I'm pissed off that I've not been watching this for a decade because it.
ChrisI think the timing was perfect as well.
ChrisBecause that happened after a very intense bit, didn't it? And they'd killed the girlfriend and it was like, oh, this is all, this is you're like, oh my God, this has gone really bad, you've killed a lot of stuff.
LeeYou were expecting that was going to roll back.
LeeAnd that was not going to be and I was like, no, it's going to turn out that this is the witch flicking with them and they haven't actually killed her.
LeeAnd it was like, no, no, yeah, she's she's definitely.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisIt's gone proper kind of dark at that point, but then then there's sort of a law.
ChrisIt's like, you're calm down again, okay, but then they get back into the mystery.
ChrisAnd it's like, well yeah, I mean, what else are they going to do what's going on and that's just their brain's work.
ChrisIt's like, well, we've got to now figure out so back to kind of work mode.
LeeYeah.
LeeAnd go, yeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamI also I also love the fact that I mean, obviously it it pushes again when you've got that ending where Burke's like, right, we're going to shove them off to the next county.
LeeHmm.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd it's this.
ChrisYeah.
AdamWhole.
AdamAnd like they've said about this is like a problem that's been rattling around.
LeeYeah.
AdamFor years where people are just passing passing Jane Doe on.
AdamAnd it's becoming someone else's problem and everything else like that.
AdamBecause it's like and it's a great sort of, in a way, it's a bit like.
AdamYou know in the thing where they go to the Norwegian camp.
AdamAnd they are what the flick happened here.
AdamAnd then obviously the the the rest of the film explains to you that's probably what happened here.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamAnd similarly enough is you've got that mystery and even though none of that is given any explanation, it is because you're like, right, so the same shit has played out.
AdamAnd the same sort of moments and mistakes and etcetera just all sort of gone on.
ChrisBut that's once you fully understand.
ChrisI mean, the amount of horror films we've watched where it's got this essentially, you could almost feel it as kind of woke.
ChrisUm, like it it's saying look, this happened in the past, people were awful to her and it's still affecting us and it's like, how do we deal with it, you can't easily, like this is this has happened, we've kind of have to accept it.
ChrisBut it's funny how they can put something like that in this and you almost don't even need to notice it and yet it threads throughout that it's all about how she's been treated.
ChrisAnd it's still going to affect people in the present.
LeeYeah, 100%.
AdamAbsolutely flicking loved that aspect of it.
LeeYeah.
AdamWhere it was like, actually, no, this is this is an innocent person who has been.
Adamthrough through a combination of ritual and torture and everything has been turned into what they said she was in the first place.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBecause it's I love that.
AdamJust saying that about when they say, oh, Salem's up the road and he's like, yeah, and Salem was a bunch of.
ChrisAnd for what like fearful men, I suppose.
AdamYou know, girls and children who were accused.
AdamThey were innocent.
AdamAnd I think that's why they can put into.
AdamYeah.
AdamOh, what.
AdamWhat's the expression because there's a there's a band called the Esantronic Research Society.
AdamAnd it's uh the actress Maxine Peak and uh A Clockhouse and like basically it's an electronic thing.
AdamThey did a they did an album about the Pendle Witches.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd it's flicking amazing anyway.
AdamBut there's a line on there which is where they call it 17th century Holland and Barratt.
LeeYeah.
AdamWhere it's basically sort of like, yeah, all these people got put to death and it was like, yeah, they were just going to offer you a herbal remedy.
AdamOr like, you know, they're they're doing medicine.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamHerbal medicine.
AdamAnd absolutely and basically, yeah, some some nasty bastards turned up.
AdamWe're like, we're going to.
AdamYeah, we're going to turn that on you.
AdamWe're going to turn that against you.
AdamAnd um, I mean, funnily enough, because like I said, obviously we've.
AdamThere's one thing that I would say for the horror audience for Brian Cox is check out the Hammer House of Horror story, uh the silent screen, which is uh Brian Cox and Peter Cushing.
AdamAnd it is flicking brilliant.
AdamIt is just so good.
LeeI've seen that whole series multiple times.
LeeWhich one is that?
LeeOh, is that.
LeeThe one where he collects him from prison.
AdamYes, and he runs a pet shop.
LeeOh God, yes.
LeeHoly shit, yes.
LeeYou've got me on that, Brian.
AdamYeah, and that is all we shall say.
AdamI also it came up it came up the other a little while back when we were talking about it.
AdamBut Brian Cox, one of his earliest things is year of the sex Olympics, which is always worth a watch.
LeeI know, you you've been banging on about this for 30 years and I still haven't quite got around to watching it, but I definitely need to.
ChrisI mean, the title is like.
ChrisIt's hard.
ChrisTo say I want to rush out and watch that.
AdamWell, yeah, you want a brown paper bag if you're buying it from the shop, didn't you.
AdamUm, but straight after so.
AdamAs you said, it's a hour and a half, fantastic.
AdamSo that made that meant there was plenty of time, so afterwards, I introduced Claire to Sean Show by showing her the episode with Brian Cox in it.
AdamWhen he plays Father Shore, his old teacher from school.
AdamAnd uh, yeah, that was just a flicking joy.
LeeOh.
LeeWow.
AdamYeah.
AdamUm.
LeeActually.
AdamAnd actually he he he probably looks younger in the the autopsy of Jane Doe than he does in Sean Show from like 93.
LeeSo.
LeeI've got to say one of the things that I love about this about doing this show is the fact that when we started, Claire was like, I hate horror, don't want to watch horror, no interest in horror.
LeeAnd now she's watching every single movie we movie that we cover and this is the whole point we want the whole reason we wanted to do this.
LeeWas because so many people just see it as dark and horrible and unpleasant.
LeeAnd never get past.
ChrisTo the depths of Exactly.
LeeAnd it's it's that horrible thing as we've said before.
LeeOf getting shown something you're not ready for when you're a kid.
LeeAnd you immediately just shut the whole genre out.
LeeAnd you miss out on so much good stuff.
LeeI I've got a colleague I work with at work actually this week, he came in a couple of days ago, he went to me, you're really into scary movies, aren't you?
LeeSo I was like, yeah, yeah, he went, yeah.
LeeI watched one last night, I said, how was it?
LeeHe went, I've got halfway through.
LeeI might watch the rest of it tonight.
LeeI was like, what did you watch?
LeeAnd he went, smile too, so I said, I've not seen him only because they were such a mainstream thing.
LeeBut again, like, you know, I'm not trash talking him, I haven't seen them, but they were such a.
AdamOh, no, exactly, yeah.
LeeUm, but yeah, the fact that it's it's upset him that much.
LeeI'm like, I think I might need to watch these.
AdamOh, that's that's the thing as well is because a lot of this that is weird when these things sort of like bubble out.
AdamAnd sort of like get big and then you find out, oh yeah, no, there's probably some people we're we're sitting there.
AdamIt's like, it's like when me and um uh it's like when me and uh Tony were talking about noise artists.
AdamAnd uh he said that, well, you know, like Merzbow, it's a bit more commercial and I thought, I think that if we're saying Merzbow is a bit commercial.
AdamYou know.
AdamI think we might have gone beyond.
AdamAnd similarly, I think sometimes we're the same where it's like, oh, well, it's, you know, it's mainstream, it's going to be and it's like, no, it's probably is some good shit.
AdamBecause sometimes it's like, no.
AdamThat really was flicking disturbing.
LeeI know, and I do feel like such a prick for doing it as well.
LeeCuz I'm like, I am that person, oh, no, I'm into proper horror.
LeeI don't want like.
LeeBut yeah, just because it reaches a lot of people and genuinely affects them, it necessarily mean it's going to be shit.
AdamBut then you got look at stuff like like The Exorcist.
AdamYou know, a genuine flicking here.
AdamYou know, Rosemary's Baby, you know, there's there's plenty of films that were flicking.
AdamAnd and video, Christ Almighty, that was the the second coming of horror.
AdamSo.
LeeYeah, absolutely.
LeeRight, um.
LeeSo glad we did this, so glad that you covered it previously.
LeeChris.
LeeAnd put this on our watch like kind of got this, otherwise, yeah, I don't know if even.
LeeTroll Hunter we'd have necessarily gone.
LeeWe have been talking about that.
LeeSo maybe we should.
LeeUm, but yeah, so well done and thanks for bringing it to us.
AdamChris is welcoming us to horror.
LeeI know.
ChrisHow to type from one day.
LeeFantastic.
LeeUm.
LeeSo listen, so we're back in a fortnite's time, we're doing something a bit different.
LeeUm, we're going to do another books episode.
LeeSo it's going to be a bit more of a almost what we've been watching but stuff we've been reading.
LeeSo, um, yeah, so it's going to be so there's no homework, we're just going to read talk about all the books we've been reading over the last year or so.
LeeSo, uh, yeah.
LeeSo we will see you in a fortnite's time.
LeeGo and check out the Autopsy of Jane Doe.
LeeThanks very much for listening.
LeeGood night.
ChrisGood night.
AdamGood night.
