Alien
01:09:44
About
In space, no one can hear Lee complain, but we’re back on Earth, so get ready to hear our discussion on Ridley Scott’s “Alien”. A film in which John Hurt rehearses his guest appearance in “Spaceballs”; Tom Skerritt gives a masterclass in poor management (we’ve all worked for a useless prick); and Ian Holm performs cinema’s first self-bukkake. A fantastic, darkly epic film that perfectly straddles science fiction and horror, perhaps its greatest achievement is the thoroughly believable world (or worlds) it builds, allowing both its cast and the viewer to immerse themselves completely. Our discussion touches upon the sequels, which, whilst gradually conforming to the franchise fatigue of diminishing returns, having such a rich starting mythology to build upon, all throw up some real points of interest (particularly those films that continue Ripley’s story). Our conversation also encompasses the film’s creative origins in Alejandro Jodorowsky’s (tragically) aborted attempt to bring “Dune” to the silver screen. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us.
Transcript
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UnknownGood evening and welcome to horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamHey, I'm Adam.
LeeAnd we are here this evening for a friend and lovely of the show Claire for her birthday choice.
Leeshe is not joining us she's not joining us this evening.
LeeBut was very keen to see this film as she has now been welcomed to horror and has been desperate to see this.
LeeAnd I am I I I've got to admit in spite of what I may feel about this film, I'm surprised we've made it nearly 200 episodes and we haven't covered it yet.
Leeso we are here for 1979's Ridley Scott Alien.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYes.
LeeAnd.
AdamSo.
ChrisIt's a shock.
AdamIs a shock, isn't it?
ChrisWe can it's a shock we can get this far, but also a shock that someone can get this far without having seen Alien.
ChrisGrowing up in a sci-fi loving household, you know, so.
LeeWell, yeah.
LeeYeah, but but again, for someone who was so very anti-horror, this film is like this film sits, I think, perfectly well in either camp sci-fi.
AdamYes, yeah, yeah.
ChrisYeah, yeah, it really.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah, really does.
LeeYeah, it it fits both of them 100% and it's it's not often that you get a a film that isn't just a sci-fi film with some scary elements or a scary movie that is setting space.
LeeBut but this I think is a that perfect amalgamation of the two.
Leebefore we get into the movie, I would like to share with you a quick story if I may.
Leelinking back to our least haunted, but also linking into this evening's subject.
LeeSo, as I was discussing with the guys, off of Mike earlier.
LeeI have just spent pretty much the last 60 hours in bed with the flu slash COVID.
LeeI mean, who knows because nobody tests anymore.
LeeI haven't got any.
AdamWho knows.
LeeOh.
AdamDon't make your pain now.
LeeI'm not. No we spoilers and swearing.
LeeJust warn you.
Leebefore I fucking forget, start getting into that.
LeeAnyway, so.
AdamAfter I say can't.
Leeso I have just yeah, slept for 60 hours.
LeeBut I woke up at 5:00 this morning, for my obligatory every 8 hours waking up for a Pepsi Max and a piss.
Leeonly since I've had the cold.
LeeLike that's not just how I live my general life.
Leebut yeah, so I came back from the bathroom and was admiring the moon because it was behind the clouds.
LeeAnd then I noticed.
LeeSo my the back of my house, we have roads that run off at 90°, so my road runs parallel and it runs horizontal and the others run vertically against it as it were.
LeeAnd I can see behind my house two houses with two chimneys and between them, I can see a light.
LeeAnd it looks like it's a few miles away.
LeeAnd I just kind of noticed it.
LeeAnd every now and again it keeps blinking like super bright.
LeeAnd I was like.
LeeThat's weird.
LeeSo I thought, I'll sit and watch that.
LeeI've slept a lot, I can probably manage 10 minutes.
LeeAnd this light keeps blinking like so it's quite dull.
LeeAnd then every now and again it blinks like super brightly.
LeeAnd then it does a funny little figure of eight movement.
LeeLike super fast.
LeeAnd then it's just a dull light again.
LeeAnd then it's.
LeeAnd I was like, oh my god, this is it.
LeeThis is this is the UFO.
LeeI've wanted to see all my life.
LeeAnd I ran downstairs and I got my phone and I came back up and I videoed it and it looked like dog shit as they always do when you film something like that.
LeeMiles away on your phone in the middle of the.
LeeSo I must have watched this thing for about 15, 20 minutes.
LeeAnd I thought right.
LeeI'm going to go to bed and I'm going to get up in the morning.
LeeAnd I'm going to get my binoculars and I'm going to get up in the loft and I'm going to look at the skylight and I'm going to work out between those two chimneys roughly the direction I'm looking in.
LeeAnd I'm going to make sure that there's nothing I can see it's not like a crane or something that's got a light attached to it or whatever.
LeeAnd for some reason something's moving it or, you know, they're setting up a crane in the middle of the night.
LeeWho knows?
ChrisThat sounds like some good skeptical thinking you've got going on here.
LeeYes.
LeeBut but I was like but none of these things fit what I'm seeing.
LeeThis is but I want to be 100.
LeeAnd I was like then I'll get Google Earth up and I'll look at a Google Maps, plot it out so I can make sure there's nothing in my eyeline.
LeeSo I go back to sleep.
LeeAnd then I wake up this morning.
LeeAnd I woke up and I was like before you look, just lay there for a good 10 minutes and just allow your mind to remember exactly what you were seeing and exactly what it looked like.
LeeSo I did all of that.
LeeAnd then I sat up and I looked out the window and I went, oh.
LeeIt's a street light and the guts have fallen out of it.
ChrisOh.
LeeSo it was the light hanging on the wire and assuming, I still couldn't see it, I could still only see the street light, but I could see the street light the top of it was exactly where it was.
LeeSo obviously the light had fallen out and was pointing the other way, so I could only see the dim back of it and then when the wind blew it and it turned to me, that was when it was flashing and it's funny figure of eight was obviously when the wind blew it and it was blowing at the end of its cable.
LeeBut it looked.
ChrisI can imagine that probably did look pretty good at night.
LeeYeah, again, so it's back to the thing we said about, you know, when people say they see stuff and we go, we don't believe it.
LeeSo we think they're just fucking liars.
LeeLike it definitely is very easy to be tricked.
ChrisYeah, when how many follow up like you did?
LeeYeah, we again, it's only because I I looked out and immediately went, where's the fucking lamp post there.
LeeI couldn't see the frame of the lamp post in the dark because it was too dark, so I had no idea that this that the light had been hanging underneath.
ChrisAnd you can do that because it's near your house.
ChrisBut if it had been, you know, some distance where you'd been somewhere else.
LeeWell, this is the thing.
LeeIt looked.
ChrisYou couldn't necessarily have been able to.
LeeIt looked like a massive light that was about two or three miles away.
LeeBut it wasn't, it was a street light 300 yards away.
ChrisFacing the wrong way.
LeeJust the bulb hanging in the.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt was a bulb dangling in the wind.
LeeBastard.
LeeAnyway.
LeeSo yes.
AdamBeautiful song.
LeeSo it wasn't thankfully morphs and I'm still not a believer, but anyway, that's my my alien story for the so, Chris, I'm assuming.
Chris
LeeBeing the massive sci-fi nerd that you are, this is not the first time you've seen Alien.
ChrisIt's not, but it's 1979 and I didn't see this for a very long time, and I have mentioned this before.
ChrisBut I saw Aliens and loved that that was like just one of the best teenage films that, you know, that we watched as teenagers, like it was just it was the perfect blend of action, sci-fi.
ChrisBut not much horror in Aliens as we've said, and then yeah, I I can't remember actually when I first saw Alien.
ChrisI I this is this may be the third time now.
Chrisand yeah, so so what I did want to check was both of your backgrounds as well.
ChrisWith regards to did you see Alien first?
AdamI saw.
AdamActually, I saw it really ass about tech.
AdamI saw Alien, Alien 3 and then finally saw Aliens.
ChrisOh, that's interesting.
ChrisOkay.
AdamBut Aliens was for certainly for me and Leeds sort of generation.
AdamI think was the big one because that was the one that came out in the video shop.
AdamAnd it was.
AdamEveryone had seen it.
AdamSo, I hadn't, but I knew pretty much everyone had seen Aliens.
AdamSo, yeah, at that point it was so, yeah, I saw it completely ass about tech.
AdamBecause I saw a pirate of Alien 3.
Adamjust just before it came out the cinema, so like 92.
ChrisWhat what was the quality like? Because it's quite a dark film.
AdamIt.
AdamBelieve me it was it was shonky as it was just it looked as.
ChrisIs there more to it or?
AdamI I can't remember to be honest all I do remember is my mate showed it to me.
AdamAnd fast forwarded through the credits so that all the explanation of how the fuck she's on the prison planet didn't actually make any sense.
ChrisYeah, could have.
AdamAnd then he had to spend the next 10 minutes keep interrupting all the action in the film to tell me what he could have what I could have believed by having seen it.
AdamCould have, yeah.
AdamJust without someone fast forwarding through the fucking opening.
LeeWithout knowing who this was, what a pillock.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou do know yes, it was a bloody stupid thing, but but there we go.
AdamAnd yeah.
AdamSo I saw Alien, Alien 3 then Aliens.
AdamPretty much.
AdamAfter I saw basically it was like Alien 3, someone's got it around their house, let's all go and watch it.
AdamAnd then it's like I seen Aliens yet.
AdamSo I then watched Aliens.
AdamBut yeah, that was that was the way around I did it.
ChrisI don't.
ChrisYeah, I don't think you necessarily needed to, but but yeah.
ChrisLike so Lee.
ChrisWhat what was your order of screening?
LeeNow, this is showing my cards early.
Leeso I saw Alien and went.
ChrisOkay.
LeeAnd then that was it.
ChrisI mean, you did you did give us that.
ChrisHint, which I was I was like, oh, this I'm shocked, but fair enough.
ChrisLet's let's get into that when we do.
LeeWhen I watched it.
LeeI think I saw Aliens.
LeeOnce.
LeeNo.
LeeDid I?
LeeYes, I think I did.
LeeAnd again, went and walked away and never came back.
LeeAnd then literally about five years ago.
LeeI had this conversation with my brother and we were like, yeah.
LeeI've watched them both once.
Leelike they were fine.
LeeDon't think I ever really need to go back and watch them again.
LeeBecause I don't think I could give a shit.
ChrisAnd and what was his response?
LeeHis response was right.
LeeFor Christmas, he bought me the Blu-ray box set of the anthologynology and he was like, you need to go back and rewatch them.
ChrisNice work Dean, fully on board with that.
LeeI've made a mistake.
Lee
AdamI I was fairly certain that that would have been D re action to be honest.
ChrisStop messing around Lee.
LeeAnd he was like, look, we can all be in a bad head space and make a mistake now and again.
LeeLet's not get caught up in it.
LeeBut is the box set.
LeeDon't be a lemon or you liar.
Lee
ChrisSo we may find out some.
LeeSo I rewatched all of them and I also wait.
ChrisSo all I'll go on.
ChrisAll five.
LeeAll four.
ChrisFour.
ChrisOkay.
LeeAnd then went.
LeeAnd that was it.
LeeI went to the IMAX and watched Prometheus.
ChrisOkay.
LeeBut.
LeeAgain, and this is the thing, I just I always yeah.
LeeIt's it's not that I would say it's a shit film.
LeeI always go, oh, yeah.
LeeIt's fine.
LeeBut I never, I never owned it and it I never went, oh, I wish I could watch that now.
LeeAnd I've had it sitting on my shelf since Dean bought it for me.
LeeAnd I watched all of them in the space of about a week, pretty much night after night.
LeeAnd then put the box set away and have never given a shit again.
LeeAnd that's kind of.
ChrisOh.
LeeI I think it's Ridley Scott.
LeeIf I'm honest.
LeeI I love like I love like there's so much behind the story.
LeeSorry, I don't want to get all carried away.
LeeBut I I wanna get.
ChrisYeah.
LeeQuickly.
LeeLike all the idea of the different stages of the xenomorph and the look of it and the feel of the spaceships and they're lived in and all of that is phenomenal.
LeeIt's beyond question.
LeeThe acting is amazing.
LeeThe like everything is great.
LeeI can't I just can't stick his pacing.
LeeAnd you're going to hate me, but I'm the same with Blade Runner.
ChrisOh, yeah.
LeeI will say Blade Runner is amazing.
LeeI've still only seen it three fucking times.
LeeI own it four formats, but I've still only seen it three times.
ChrisI do what I just just going to say.
ChrisQuick side thing on that, right I heard someone say about Blade Runner, how impressed they were with Harrison Ford because he gave the best scene to.
ChrisRutger Hauer.
ChrisAnd.
ChrisI'd never thought of it that way, but it's like that is such an amazing scene.
ChrisAnd yeah, Harrison Ford didn't get it, but yeah.
AdamBut I think I think actually I mean, I'm I think it's I'm glad that it's very much it's not that you don't like it.
AdamIt's just oh, it's a competently made film that passed the time as it were.
AdamYou know what I mean?
AdamIt's not like it's not something that has actively aggravated you.
AdamBut I know what you mean.
AdamI think because the weird thing is is that because obviously it's Aliens like the horror film.
AdamThen Aliens is action.
LeeYeah.
AdamAlien 3 is for a very specific depressed goth from the 90s.
AdamWhich is me.
Adamand and I'm sorry, but vote Adam on art, but that man is wrong about Alan Alien 3.
AdamSo just.
ChrisHe he yeah, I I remember the discussion.
ChrisHe he didn't like that.
AdamDidn't he.
AdamYeah, but watch watch the assembly cut, that's the key with Alien 3.
AdamWatch the one that was kind of David Fincher's version.
ChrisI mean, I remember enjoying it.
ChrisI've only seen it the once when it came out, but.
LeeI am going to watch it.
LeeBecause actually having watched this, I then started watching Aliens today and I've got about 20 minutes left of it.
LeeBut I had to break away to come and watch this.
LeeAnd I've got to say, I I this is the thing, I picked for both of them, I picked the theatrical cut.
LeeAnd with Alien, I was like, come on mate.
LeeLike and that's the thing, like it's got some such incredibly focal scenes in it that are just, you know, that have just been mimicked on everything and everyone knows them.
LeeAnd they're they're.
ChrisThe John Hurt scene.
LeeYeah.
LeeBut he still manages to make that two-hour film drag to holy.
LeeHoly fuck.
ChrisThat is so funny, I do not find it drags at all.
AdamGive the director's cut a try.
AdamBecause the director's cut has more scenes and is shorter.
LeeOh, if I knew it was short, I'd have fucking watched that.
LeeI was like I I I know the original is two hours, I'm not watching a fucking two hour 45 minute dick Waggle where I have to sit through more dark spaces.
AdamIt's about 15 minutes shorter, same as Blade Runner is the weird thing whenever Ridley Scott does a director's cut.
AdamHe's almost like he's I think he follows actually your advice.
AdamHe's very much, oh, I could have tightened that up a bit.
ChrisBut yeah, so what does he take out then? I mean, it must it can't be anything that gets in the way of the story, but.
ChrisIs it is it just small bits here and there or?
AdamThe director's there's some there's some more there's some more interaction between the crew, the main thing and this is this leads into one of the sort of.
AdamNot myths, but sort of things of Alien is towards the end when after when Ripley is going back to the shuttle.
AdamShe finds Dallas intomed in the Aliens.
AdamAnd stuff.
ChrisOh.
LeeYeah.
LeeOkay.
AdamYes.
LeeOh.
LeeOkay.
AdamYou know how they find Yeah, you know how they find the the colonists in Aliens it's like that.
AdamAnd it's meant to be I think Brett's in the corner dead, but he's turning into an egg and Dallas basically says kill me and he's about to have the an alien burst out of his chest.
ChrisYeah.
LeeNow this is another thing that I made a note of, but I only made a note of it, I watched the entire film and made next to no notes and then after it, I went, was there a score in that?
LeeAnd then suddenly went.
LeeHang on a minute, apart from the chest burster, nobody fucking dies, you don't see anybody die.
LeePeople people see the alien and then you don't hear from them again.
LeeI was like, we never see anybody actually get murdered.
LeeAnd there's never any blood or anything.
LeeAnd I was like.
LeeHang on a fucking.
ChrisDo you not.
LeeI don't.
ChrisWhat the Brett scene, in my head, the Brett scene, you see him die.
ChrisBut.
AdamBrett, you you see Brett get attacked and dragged up into the ceiling, you definitely see Parker get his head smashed in with the little the inner mouth.
LeeOh.
LeeYeah.
Leeyeah.
AdamIt punches through his skull.
Adamso there are a couple and.
AdamIt's not the alien who kills him, but you see Ash die.
ChrisWell, I was going to say.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisYeah, I mean that that that is so that's one of the big things for me is the whole bringing in the Android I and that to me is a big horror aspect of this film as well.
ChrisThe way he one is meant to be bringing back the Alien and so and then it brings in the idea of the corporation caring about getting a weapon over people.
ChrisBut then the way Ash messes up as well is quite significant, I think.
AdamIt is and it's also a weird thing.
AdamGoing through because I was going through and in my head, Ian Holm is quite a sort of.
AdamOh.
AdamHe's that cuddly of an uncle.
AdamAnd I think it's literally because he plays fucking Bilbo Baggins and because of the Fifth Element.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisYeah, he he can play quite a dark.
AdamBut when you actually go back through his fucking roles before Alien, he played more fucking Nazis than Mr. Bronson.
LeeSee now I only from Alien.
LeeAnd from.
LeeAnd both of them he's fucking Satan.
ChrisYeah.
AdamHe is.
AdamHe does play a lot of evil bastards in my head.
AdamI'm like, oh, it's cuddly and home, I sort of bracket him with like Richard Bryers or something.
AdamIt's like, actually, no.
AdamWhen I think about it, he is always a shit and film.
AdamOh.
LeeYeah.
LeeBut you're always but you're always playing a surprising shit.
LeeHe always plays who's really nice.
LeeYeah, no, I trust him every time and he's always an asshole.
AdamYeah, it's.
AdamIt's Brazil's the other thing where he's just like like a hapless office manager in Brazil who's kind of like just out of his depth.
AdamBut other than that, yeah, he's always bastards.
AdamSo it's just a weird thing.
AdamBut that's one because obviously like we we were talking about, but that's one of the things that deviated from the original script was because the Ash's role was going to be fulfilled by mother, like the onboard computer.
ChrisOh, even that.
ChrisThat's what I said like that.
ChrisThe way when Ripley is communicating with the with mother and the way that Ash is communicating with mother, like that that is such a good element throughout.
ChrisI thought.
AdamYeah.
ChrisYeah, sorry.
ChrisGo on.
AdamGo on.
AdamAnd and it's that but it's that plainness as well.
AdamBut they kind of the original script had six six members of the crew.
AdamAnd then they brought in Ash as basically as a sort of double agent sort of figure.
AdamAnd then while they were this was during rewrites, not Dan O' Bannon's like other people rewrites.
AdamAnd they made Ash like a sort of double agent figure.
AdamAnd then actually the twist about him being a robot was literally because.
AdamOne of the guys was like, right, so we get to this point where they're confronting him.
AdamAnd what happens?
AdamAnd he said, they punch his head off.
LeeOh.
AdamAnd then like, oh, so he's a robot.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd I don't think he'd just said they punch his head off, but you know.
AdamHe's like.
LeeAnd they just yes, ended it.
LeeBut.
AdamYeah.
LeeBut the problem is this creates the biggest fucking plot holes for me in this entire movie.
LeeWhich.
ChrisYou're going.
LeeAgain, it's funny because I saw you getting very frustrated earlier when I said the word Prometheus and it looked like you looked like you were going to try and punch the phone.
LeeAnd I know a lot of alien like serious fans are the same and they're like, oh, that film's so full of plot holes.
LeeAnd I'm like, hang on a minute.
ChrisThey all are.
LeeThis film is exactly the same.
LeeSo the plan was.
LeeSo they sent this entire group out there knowing they were sending this alien, this this alien.
LeeFucking hell.
LeeThis robot as a like as a a mole because the whole thing was to just get this alien thing and bring it back.
LeeRight, one, why did they take the whole ship full of people?
LeeWhy don't they just put a robot on a fucking ship and send it to get it and then bring it back.
LeeHe could have done that.
LeeOr two, they could have not woken the whole crew up.
LeeThey were all in stasis.
ChrisAnd just left.
LeeJust get the robot up, park the ship, put it in a box, put it in a fucking cat carrier, that cat carrier thing that she puts Jones in, stick it somewhere, bring it back to earth and then just hang the over.
LeeOh, no, I just said to say well, I've never said that on this podcast, I'm going to have to bleep that now.
LeeAnyway, right.
LeeAgain, so the whole film is entirely negated, none of those people need to die, they could have just sent a fucking robot like a man with a van.
LeeAnd none of this needed to have happened.
AdamThe point is that you know when they say about do you know anything about about Ash and Dallas says, I've had the same science officer and then on this time they changed him they changed.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamThat's because the company have received the noticed the signal.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd so they send him on board as a thing to like basically let's go and check this out because it might be aliens.
AdamBut we want we don't know what it is.
LeeYeah, but this is my point, so just put a robot in a spaceship and send.
LeeYou don't have to take all the that that cost all those people and that ship.
ChrisWhat.
LeeJust put a robot in a shuttle and send them there.
ChrisI'm wondering, did they need did they need a human to trigger the eggs?
LeeWe don't know that.
LeeThey don't know.
AdamWe don't know.
AdamThat's why they literally as an exploratory thing.
LeeAnd even if they did know that, what they're going to end up with is a Xenomorph.
LeeWhat they want is a face hugger, so they can learn the whole thing.
ChrisSo you're viewing this as a plot hole from the corporation's perspective.
ChrisAs in they could have just done this completely.
ChrisBut.
ChrisBut let's say.
AdamThe the the from a from a company point of view, you send someone out and find out.
AdamIt's just this is just a random beacon that's been left there, you get them on their way.
ChrisThat's that's a massive mission for nothing.
AdamYou send that's why they're not that's why they don't send Marines.
AdamThey send a bunch of space like.
LeeOkay.
LeeSo if that's the case, so they have sent this this robot with them.
LeeAnd they've done this massive, they've gone off, they've picked up their hole.
LeeThey've come back, they've now woken them all up out of stasis.
LeeYou're talking about days, weeks in between.
LeeThey wake up within about 20 minutes, Ripley has gone, this isn't an SOS, this is a warning.
LeeSo, how come the corporation didn't work this out.
LeeBefore they substituted the medical officer for a robot and go, it's a warning.
LeeThere's something out there.
LeeThis definitely isn't an SOS, we need to investigate this.
LeeMore thoroughly.
LeeBefore sending loads of people.
AdamYou investigate by sending a bunch of pa in and see what happens.
AdamIf they don't come back.
LeeNo, no.
LeeIf she'd have finished deciphering the message, if she deciphered half of the message in 20 minutes.
LeeJust put the fucking launch off by an hour and a half and you'd have the full fucking message.
LeeWarning.
LeeBig exploding motherfuckers.
LeeThey're going to pop out your chest.
LeeThey start off like fucking squids.
LeeThen they're going to pop out your chest.
LeeAnd then you've got a big skull headed penis thing, right?
LeeJust read the message, it's fine, you can manage that.
LeeAre you not a fan of.
ChrisOf Geer's artwork either.
LeeOh, I fucking love Geer.
LeeAnd that's the thing.
LeeThat's I think that's why I find it.
ChrisHe does he does have a few more big big penises in his actual artwork, doesn't he?
LeeHe does have.
AdamHe does a lot of penises.
ChrisBut.
AdamIt's a lot of penises.
AdamIt's it's a a penis what I would describe as a penis jamboree.
ChrisBut a very twisted.
LeeThe other thing.
LeeAgain, not to point out a plot point.
LeeBut it's.
LeeFucking lucky that Xenomorph looked exactly like the inside of a shuttle, otherwise that thing would have been fucked if it had tried to come out.
AdamIt they do look a lot like pipes on a lot of different planets, it has to be said.
AdamThat's.
LeeOkay.
LeeIf the escape pod had looked like the room that they all sat and had lunch in, it'd have been fucked because there's no way it'd have hidden in that big white Star Wars looking room.
LeeIt'd have had it they'd have got him in no time.
LeeBut luckily for him, it was a very dark penis shaped.
AdamA very dark penis shape room.
AdamAnd that's that's.
AdamAnd that is the that that's what the company wanted.
AdamThey were specific.
AdamThey were like, right, we want to send truckers to make sure they get fucked up.
AdamBecause we want because that's the thing is you don't send anyone important.
AdamYou send a group of people who if this lot really fuck up, doesn't matter if they don't come back.
AdamAnd actually.
AdamThat's one of the best I think that's one of the best things about Aliens is the very start where it's basically Ripley has a has a tribunal with a fucking insurance company about.
AdamWell.
AdamYou've said about an alien, all we know is that you a big spaceship of ours got lost.
AdamYou're like.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah, which according to you was 60 fucking years ago, if you've not written that off you fucking shit houses, you fucking need to ask yourself some accounting questions.
LeeOkay.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut that.
LeeIt is it's like the.
LeeRed Wolf thing where he's left the light on and they send him the the
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah.
LeeBut that's the other thing I kept getting with this, yeah, was Red Wolf like the outside shots and the music is exactly the same.
LeeI was like, is the opening of fucking Red Wolf.
LeeEvery time.
AdamWell, even even the bit towards the end after they set off the self-destruct button.
AdamWhich again, cars do not have self-destruct buttons.
AdamShips do not have self-destruct buttons, planes do not have self-destruct buttons.
AdamWhy the.
AdamFucking spaceships always have self-destruct buttons, I can understand military vehicles.
AdamBut like, you know, a bloke hauling petrol, well, he doesn't need a self-destruct button, all he needs is a cigarette lighter and a fucking a bit of imagination.
AdamDo you know what I mean, it's I've always queried self-destruct buttons in science fiction.
AdamSo.
LeeIt isn't it isn't the guffin that's just always been there.
LeeAnd and that's the problem because it's always been there, you never question it and then you just go, oh, yeah.
LeeWhy does nothing in real life have a self-destruct?
LeeBecause you'd never need it.
AdamExactly.
LeeYou wouldn't.
AdamExactly.
AdamBut it's but when she's running and they've got like those yellow hazard lights on and stuff, that is purely ripped off in Red Dwarf from fucking series.
AdamThat's why.
LeeYeah.
AdamSeries 3 onwards.
AdamThat that scene is pretty much in every other episode of Red Dwarf.
AdamAnd if you watch the director's cut.
AdamOf Aliens, it features the captain, Captain Hollister from Red Dwarf.
AdamIs one of the colonists.
AdamMacDonald because he's one of the three Americans who lives in England that always ends up in these things.
LeeLike William Hootkins.
LeeFrom Star Wars and Batman.
LeeYou know, he's just one of those guys is just always in these things.
AdamBut actually, speaking of Red Wolf, one of the things that I'm as I'm watching it with Claire is there's the bit where you first see when Brett first sees the alien.
AdamAnd it's just slobbering and the mouth open.
AdamAnd Claire did in her best Norman Love it voice, I can see right down your gob.
LeeOh.
LeeWow.
AdamFor Red Dwarf and that yeah, that that that that got it.
AdamBut it was.
AdamBut no, I I I think I'll be I'll be honest.
AdamI so I decided I was going to watch it, so I wanted to watch Aliens as well.
AdamBecause it turns out Claire had only seen Prometheus.
AdamAnd at that point, I was like, oh, that explains why you've never bothered to watch any of the others.
ChrisSo I watched for you.
ChrisFor this.
ChrisAnd.
ChrisDid you?
ChrisIt I thought it was okay.
ChrisI didn't I didn't hate it.
ChrisBut I had no real expectation at all.
ChrisIt was like.
LeeI need to rewatch it.
ChrisI I just don't know.
ChrisIt's more Aliens.
ChrisIt's good.
ChrisIt's it's a bit like it's a bit like more Star Wars, it could be absolutely rubbish.
ChrisI'd still be kind of happy to watch it.
AdamI think that's my problem with it is because I care too much about it.
AdamAlthough weirdly enough, on this rewatch, Alien, stone cold, fucking love it, can't can't complain about it.
AdamAliens, good.
AdamAlien 3, I love it, but I have I admit I've got emotional problems, so, you know.
AdamAnd there's nothing that works for you.
AdamIt combines two things I like which is a cruel universe and lots of British character actors.
AdamSo I'm very happy.
AdamAnd I must admit, I got to like Thursday night and then it was like, should I watch Alien Resurrection?
AdamAnd then I thought, no, fuck it.
AdamI can't be assed and started rewatching Sapphire and Steel because David Mcm was dead.
LeeSo, RIP David Mcm.
AdamRIP.
AdamBut so I was like, they'll watch Alien 3 and then Alien 4 rather, Alien Resurrection, and then I just thought, nah, because then I'll probably have to watch Prometheus.
AdamAnd I've still not seen Alien Covenant, I'll be honest.
ChrisI I did want to watch that as well after watching for me, but I didn't quite manage it in time.
ChrisBut I I will do now.
ChrisI'm going to do them all.
AdamI'm I'm sort of defining it as the Ripley trilogy now because technically in Alien Resurrection, it's not Ripley.
AdamIt's a clone of Ripley half alien and at that point, I was like, it's the first alien film.
AdamI saw at the cinema and in 1998, I was perfectly prepared to think that's a cool idea.
AdamIn 2023, I'm like, that is the most clicheed load of old shit, excuse to get Weaver back in after they killed her off.
AdamAnd yeah, I just can't be.
AdamAsked.
AdamSo I'm I'm I'm definitely I'm still Alien.
AdamI'm still very much in.
AdamBut for me, I'm now I'm going to do like Terminator.
AdamWhere there's only two Terminator films and don't listen to anyone else who tells you that there's anything more.
AdamAnd much the same as far as I'm concerned, this three alien films and everything else is just.
AdamIn the wild imaginings of other people who don't know how reality works.
AdamSo.
AdamWell.
AdamI'll I'll I'll give you Claire's notes.
Adam
Chris
AdamFrom of so first of all, passes the back test.
Adamand she's put here I think that's how it's spelled, which is the same as checking.
AdamSo we she's doing doing sterling work there.
AdamSo obviously the beckle test or the beckle Wallace test, which is a tool that is like a critical used in critical studies to see how whether a film passes master in terms of its representation of women.
AdamIn that do two women talk about anything other than a man.
AdamWithin the.
AdamSo this passes because.
Adamobviously you've got Veronica Cartright and Weaver, they talk about the alien.
AdamThey talk about the navigation.
AdamThey talk.
ChrisThey play significant critical yeah roles.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou know, so passes that test in the sense of actually and the next point was no one listens to fucking no one.
AdamAnd fucking is in the fucking no one is in capital.
Adamwhich is very true.
AdamBecause.
AdamYeah, there is a lot of especially the one thing that is a a running thing.
AdamThrough all the alien film, certainly all the three that I watched, which is when you find a weird membrane on the floor, do tell people.
LeeYeah.
AdamEspecially if you're aware there's like Alien and Aliens, definitely you should.
AdamHey guys, I've just found a like weird skin on the floor.
AdamYou know, maybe we want to talk about this.
AdamBut no.
Adamthe word God damn is used so often, it starts to feel like a made-up word.
AdamSo.
AdamIs there a tiny stasis pod for Jonesy?
AdamI'd like to think there is.
Adamit looks amazing.
AdamThe models look better than Star Wars in places.
LeeBetter than Aliens.
AdamYeah.
AdamOh, fuck me.
AdamI I'll give him their due, I think that because this one is all in space, it's got nothing to go against.
AdamBut as soon as you start having like through clouds and pass buildings and stuff.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt does start looking shonky in Aliens.
AdamIt's it's not great.
Adam
Adamwhere are we.
Adamnever would have seen the droid twist coming.
AdamLoved it.
AdamWhich is great because again, it was a bit like psycho where the Exorcist for Claire.
AdamWhere it's like, oh, I know Alien because I know the chest and it is a it is a big sequence, it is quite a it's a dramatic bit and but it's been parodied so much.
AdamThat that element has actually been kind of left out of the sort of.
ChrisI completely agree, that's what I was saying earlier, like for me, that really adds a lot to it.
ChrisI think that is one of the things that does make me like this film a lot more.
AdamDan O'Bannon hated it.
AdamHe said it was well acted, well directed, but I think he was just.
AdamFrom what I gather, Dan O'Bannon who wrote the original scripts, which was called Star Beast before it was called Alien, so that could have been slightly shitter.
LeeYes.
AdamThen it.
AdamIt would have been because then the second film would have been Star Beasts and, you know, it's sort of yeah.
AdamBut anyway.
Adamfrom but from what I gather in the end, I think Dan O'Bannon was like, you don't like literally any changes that were made to your script whatsoever.
AdamDo you?
AdamAnd, you know, that's kind of I think script writers kind of have to acknowledge that.
AdamYou pass it over to someone who will probably either, you know, I can't remember who it was, but someone said, oh.
AdamWriting is great because it's like handing someone your children and they send them back disfigured.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisOr mutilate, you know.
ChrisI'm going to come back come back to that point later when we discuss.
AdamShe also.
LeeI am going to go on record now and this is going to bring a lot of hate down, I'm sure.
LeeThere have been some terrible things done in the history of the human race.
LeeSome real terrible atrocities.
LeeI don't think any of them can equal the fact that that film was never made.
AdamOh, mate, tell me about it.
AdamI mean.
LeeLike.
AdamIt's yeah.
ChrisOkay.
ChrisRight, so.
ChrisSo I I completely I mean, I completely agree, like so I'd never heard of this at all until Adam posted it in the WhatsApp group the other day and yeah, like it's amazing to watch the documentary.
ChrisUntil the bit where he said and then the planet takes on Paul's consciousness.
ChrisAnd flies around the universe.
ChrisConverting other planets.
ChrisOh, and and it's all about raping.
ChrisI was like, okay.
ChrisYou lost me.
ChrisI'll I'll I'll rewrite that bit of the script because that's mental.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeLast bit.
AdamBut.
LeeBut like the like the whole lead up to that was just.
ChrisYeah.
LeeLike could could not be more.
LeeAnd absolutely the way they show that it was essentially became a gold mine for so many other films and scripts.
LeeLike yeah.
LeeIt's fascinating.
LeeBut is it is it just that he he all of the things that he put together.
LeeWas and maybe at the time just a bit too much, whereas taking taking parts of it out.
LeeIt really works in other films in a in a in a more popular way.
AdamI.
AdamI think also Chris because I think if they'd have made it.
AdamThe one group of people.
AdamWho wouldn't have liked it are Dune fans.
AdamBecause he was.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisOh, no.
LeeI don't know the story of June.
LeeI've seen the first movie of the new ones, I couldn't even make it through that fucking David Lynch monstrosity.
LeeAnd I started reading the book and I loved, I really loved it.
LeeFor the first three chapters and then didn't read it for three days and then was like, yeah, I don't think I need to go back to that.
LeeAnd I don't know why.
LeeBut.
LeeSorry.
LeeAnyway.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut I think that definitely, I mean, maybe maybe we'll mini episode something about Jed's June in comparison to other Junes or something like that, but you know, it's no, it has to be said it's just a fucking tragedy that it didn't get made.
AdamBut also you know why it didn't get made.
AdamBecause of the amount of times that you'd clearly went into Hollywood finance and just said.
AdamFuck you, I am making spiritual warriors and I'm trying to emancipate the Xton that like, you know, changing people's minds and giving them an LSD trip without having to take LSD.
AdamAnd at that point, I know that a lot of the Hollywood producers maybe just thought we're going to lose some money here, aren't we?
ChrisYeah.
LeeIt's not just that.
LeeIt's we're going to take the man who cooks for the best restaurant in Paris and have him the exclusive chef for Orson Wells for the duration of the filming.
AdamJust to get Orson Wells in.
AdamOr or the fact that it was.
AdamLike the thing with Dolly.
LeeYeah.
AdamWhere it's like.
LeeYeah.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamYou want to.
Lee100,000.
ChrisYeah.
LeeYeah, exactly.
LeeBut what a fucking clever way of doing it.
LeeSo you're going to pay me $100,000 for every minute I'm on on set, yeah.
LeeSo what he does is.
ChrisSo he's happy with that title.
LeeYeah.
LeeSo he has a robot made who replaces him, so we only have to have three minutes of him.
LeeAnd the rest of him is a robot, which which loads of films.
LeeThe fucking Star Wars did it.
LeeLater on with
LeeYeah, exactly.
LeeNo, it wasn't a robot.
AdamYou had many clones of the fucking Emperor.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd and technically, I suppose it ends up as being Ash, you know, is that same thing.
AdamWhere you know.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt's.
LeeOh, it's just, it's I know Adam was.
AdamOh, yeah, but but coming back to to how it relates to Alien.
AdamSo obviously Dan O'Bannon was.
Adamwho who'd written this.
AdamWho also wrote Dark Star.
LeeNow we talked.
LeeWe talked about.
LeeWe talked a lot.
LeeAbout this on.
LeeOn.
ChrisI remember yeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamWe did for return of the living dead.
ChrisThat was the John.
AdamDirected.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut John Carpenter from Dark Star is basically Alien the comedy and it's so it's kind of like when people say about Red Wolf.
AdamThey do mention Dark Star because it's that same thing.
AdamOf basically it is Alien.
AdamBecause it's a crew of bickering workers who are just more annoyed with the food and their bonuses.
AdamYeah.
AdamThan about space exploration and they do have an alien on board.
AdamBut in Dark Star, it's played by a beach ball and a set of comedy monster hands.
LeeOh, yeah.
LeeSorry.
LeeYou're quite right.
LeeWe should have point that the reason Adam told us to watch Dursky's June is because the team who resembled.
LeeFor Dursky's June, a lot of them came together a couple of years later and made Alien because Dan O'Bannon was brought in.
LeeSorry.
LeeWe should have mentioned that.
LeeBecause to anybody who just went, they were talking about alien and then they fucked off and talked about Dursky for 15 minutes for no reason whatsoever.
ChrisThat's right.
ChrisThere's no plot holes in this episode.
AdamIs.
ChrisNo, no, no, no.
LeeOh, no.
LeeAnd you know they're not been told for 15 years and then they'll be pissed off at the sequel.
LeeApparently.
LeeThanks very much.
