Split
00:39:45
About
It’s time to make like a banana (who enjoys the work of M. Night Shyamalan) and watch “Split”. A film in which learn that a Varvatos shirt will excuse 90s cargo pants; that security guards are utterly useless, especially if they’ve still got your orange headphones; and that Kanye is my main man, et cetera. By being a “stealth sequel” to “Unbreakable”, and becoming the middle leg of a trilogy concluded with “Glass”; “Split” runs the risk of being absorbed into that wider context; but as a film on it’s own, it’s a tense, pared down thriller with Hitchcockian vibes and two incredible lead performances, that rightly rejuvenated Shyamalan’s reputation as a film maker. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers and join us. And if you are having difficulties with your mental health, seek help - whether that’s with your Doctor or even just talking with friends and family. Stay safe.
Transcript
Show full transcript
LeeGood evening, everybody. Lee here. our regular listeners will know that we recently did a supernatural stories episode, or not, depending on your beliefs.
Leebut it seems to have gone down quite well and we've spoken to a few people who said they've got interesting stories of their own. So, as we tempted the idea at the end of our last episode, we're going to do a follow-up at some point.
LeeSo if any of you have stories of your own that you think would be interesting that you wouldn't mind us sharing with the listeners,
Leefeel free to either record them and email them over to us at info@welcometohorror.com.
Leeor otherwise, you can type them out and send them to us and we will read them out on the show.
Leeif you'd rather not use your name, we will use your first name, otherwise, but if you would rather go under an alias, include that in the message and we'll be sure to use that.
LeeThanks very much and enjoy the show.
LeeGood evening, and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamI'm Adam.
LeeAnd we are here, as promised, this evening to discuss the 2016 M. Night Shyamalan movie Split.
Leewe there will be spoilers, there will be swearing, and just to warn you, obviously, as this is part of a trilogy, we will be discussing the other movies later on and there will be spoilers for those as well.
AdamUnbreakable and Glass that we might be spoiling as well.
Leeso, Chris, as this was your first viewing, I'm guessing of Split, what did you make of it?
ChrisIs is it gonna be predictable, my answer, do you think? At this point?
ChrisSo, it's got Anya Taylor-Joy. I didn't know she was in it. That was a lovely pleasant surprise, you know.
Chrisfantastic, she was.
ChrisAnd now, I've heard you mention him several times, James McAvoy.
ChrisI totally recognized him when I saw him.
ChrisI don't know where else I've seen him.
AdamHe's young Charles Xavier in the you know when they in X-Men when they started doing First Class, like they went back and he was younger.
ChrisIt's been a long time, but that is sounding okay.
AdamYeah, so he's
ChrisThat could be it then.
Leethat role as well.
AdamSorry.
ChrisWas he in it?
LeeLike I say, did he cameo in Deadpool as that character as well? There was a point where he past the door and he sort it's him and he sort of pushes the door shut so you can't see which X-Men are in the room.
AdamYeah, he's Deadpool 2 he's in like but he yeah, so he's in First Class, Days of Future Past and Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.
ChrisOkay.
Adamhe's there's a really good film with him The Last King of Scotland, which is absolutely
Adamfucking amazing, which is about
ChrisNot a horror.
AdamNot not a horror, well, to not a horror to a certain extent, it's basically it's about a guy who ended up as Idi Amin's official physician and Idi Amin, interesting fella.
Adam
AdamBut yeah, he's in it, he's apparently he's Mr. Tumnus in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
AdamI don't know which version of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe that is.
ChrisOkay.
AdamBecause there's been about a hundred.
Adamhe's he's UPS guy in Muppets Most Wanted.
Adambut also he was in he sort of made his name in Shameless.
Adamhe's in his
ChrisI never saw that actually.
AdamThe serials.
ChrisOh okay. And I that that I meant to watch.
AdamYou never see him?
Adamyeah, early doors, State of Play.
Adam
ChrisOkay, so so what we haven't watched?
LeeNo, I don't think we've we've discussed films he's been in because there's that he was in the the It remake, but yeah.
ChrisBut he's very memorable and I I mean this, like surely he won an award for this.
LeeI know.
AdamSurprisingly enough, no.
ChrisI mean seriously, like this this must have been such a fascinating character characters to to play. Like when you're shown the script as an actor, I wonder how
Chrislike to just be able to change so much.
ChrisAnd the expression like it's mad.
LeeYeah, he's put so much into the tiny mannerisms and every character and to be able to switch from one to the other almost instantly is phenomenal.
AdamAnd they do credit in the credits they credit him with all the personalities.
LeeOkay.
ChrisOkay.
AdamSo he's credited as Dennis, Patricia, Hedwig, the Beast, Kevin Wendell Crumb, Barry, Orwell and Jade because they're the ones that we see in it.
AdamAnd
ChrisI wonder what that does to you. I wonder if it did actually affect him in some way.
AdamI think it's one of those things though, when for for for actors, I think it's one of those one it's like when every sort of long-running TV show, especially like sci-fi and things like that, they always have to do evil doppelgangers because I think it's like it the actors like it because it's like now I get to do something else.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut I do suspect that this is this is one of those things where it's like actors are really sort of like would be champing at the bit to give it a whirl and sort of like because it's because it's a challenge, but it's also quite
Adambecause I mean, to be fair, it's quite a showy performance, but there's it's the only way you can do it.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou can't it's it's the wrong sort of film to for it to be subtle and I don't know how subtle you could do it.
AdamIf you see if you see what I mean.
AdamNot to I think it's it's an amazing set of fucking performances.
Adam
Adamand the the curious thing is, is that he does, I mean, you you kind you like Hedwig?
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamDo you know what I mean? but there so some of the you sort of do get the
ChrisJust reminded me of the dubstep dancing bit.
AdamYou develop
Adamwell, Kanye Kanye's Kanye's.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamKanye boy.
AdamBut also, and this is just just as a a reflex back to Mos Eisley Happy Hour. I did notice that Patricia sounds an awful lot like Obi-Wan Kenobi as played by Ewan McGregor.
LeeYeah.
AdamSo I can only assume that it's Hollywood Scots playing people.
LeeYeah.
AdamThat's the voice.
ChrisThat's how it comes out.
AdamShe didn't say hello there, but I was hearing it.
AdamSo.
AdamBut but then I think weirdly enough, I think you also get the the absolute contrast with Anya Anya Taylor-Joy where it's you know, it's a really quiet performance.
AdamIt's a very still.
ChrisShe she does that really well.
AdamBut it but it's such a good contrast, but she never gets she's never overwhelmed by acting against someone doing like nine different people, you know.
ChrisYeah, and it seem to work so well.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd actually, I I'd forgotten watching it, I'd forgotten that it's like it's basically a two-hour film.
Adam
AdamBut it doesn't feel like two hours and if someone said, oh, it's essentially five people in two locations for two hours. That sounds like that's that's got to have dead time and it doesn't.
LeeIt sounds grueling and this doesn't have any any drop beats in it at all. It's just, yeah, it's just all go all the time. Even the even the more subdued scenes, that's when your brain's going, so it doesn't feel like you're bored or you've got any down time in it, like you you're constantly thinking ahead.
LeeAnd again, with the characters as well, you know, the the way that he speaks to Karen the doctor, she knows that some of his personalities pretend to be other personalities.
ChrisYeah, that was so good, all of that side of it, yeah, absolutely.
AdamActually, I mean, that's that's that's Betty Buckley, is she's really good in it.
AdamI didn't realize she's the you know, the nice teacher in Carrie.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamYou know there's the one teacher who's not a cunt to Carrie in Carrie. That's her.
LeeI said, Oh, wow.
AdamBut yeah,
Adamand she's also in The Happening, one of another M. Night Shyamalan's.
LeeOh, M. Night, totally skipped that.
Adamfair enough.
LeeTo be fair, I skipped this for ages. I didn't see this for a couple of years after it came out.
LeeBecause everyone was talking about it, and it was one of those films where I thought I knew what was going to happen.
LeeTo the point, I was like, oh, it's just a deranged killer and he's got multiple personalities.
LeeAnd it's going to be really like, not quite torture porn, but that type of.
LeeSo I I was like, yeah, it doesn't it doesn't do anything for me and it I didn't watch it for such a long time.
ChrisI can understand that. Like I really liked the fact that they didn't take that potential side of it too far.
ChrisBecause early on it's like, yeah, where's this going to go?
LeeThat opening abduction is horrific.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd and actually, I mean, I think they again, it's something we've talked about before.
AdamYou are in no doubt about particularly like the flashback stuff.
AdamYou're you know, of Casey's life with her abusive uncle.
AdamYou are not
Adamyou're not in any doubt as to what's going on there.
AdamBut it's not it's presented in a way that gives you enough information and makes it horrible without actually
LeeYeah.
ChrisNeeding to go there.
LeeYeah, just in your face.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd I think that similarly there is a level of restraint within the film for what it you know, for what it is, which is basically it's on the on the
Adambasically it's an exploit it's an exploitation sort of like, you know, oh, mental case kidnaps girls film.
AdamYou know, for want of a sort of better term for it.
AdamAnd I think and actually like a lot of films of this, you know, this nature nowadays, it does get a lot of flack from the point of view of presenting mental illness in that way.
ChrisYeah, I was wondering about that. It's something I mean it's like especially after us talking about the voices.
ChrisI was you know, I was sort of conscious of that watching it.
ChrisI was thinking, like I've loved the the interactions between the therapist and Kevin.
ChrisAnd but yeah, I was sort of
Chrisyou know, as you're going through you're thinking again, how accurate is this?
ChrisYou know, I I'm assuming it's dramatized. I'm assuming it is more extreme than often would be portrayed.
ChrisAnd of course, it certainly is with the Beast.
ChrisAnd in a way I sort of I wasn't sure if I'd like that element because it's like, I kind of think they have presented a lot that is perhaps somewhat accurate.
AdamWell, for I mean, from what I gather and obviously, shock shock horror for listeners, we're not mental health experts, but from what I sort of from what I understand of D.I.D.
Adamlike
Adamdisassociative identity disorder, which is the the term now for what used to be called split personality and multiple personality disorder and
Adamin an absolute fucking sort of horror show of also termed schizophrenia, even though it's a completely different condition whatsoever.
ChrisDifferent.
AdamBut somehow that got linked up that schizoid meant split personality or dual personality or something like that.
Adam
Adambut from I mean, from sort of like reading about it, there is a lot of it seems to be that for as many people who are advocating for it as an existence, there are also those that don't feel it's an actual condition.
AdamAnd actually, there's a lot of there seems to be a lot of people who are referring to it essentially they're saying a bit like oh, what's it called, a bit like repressed memory syndrome.
AdamThey say a lot of people are saying it's like iatrogenic, like it's a a doctor.
AdamIt's like it's produced by
Chriscreating false memories.
AdamYeah, it's basically the doctor sort of imposing the diagnosis who then exhibits the behaviors.
Adam
Adambut I mean, regardless of whether that is the whether it's something that doctors are forcing onto patients or whether it's actually does happen.
Christhe phenomenon can still happen.
AdamIf you're suffering from it, it's
ChrisYeah, you're still suffering from it.
AdamYeah, it's it's not a
AdamAnd there does seem to be at least anecdotal evidence of as they describe in the film like physiological changes.
ChrisYeah, well that yeah, that is an interesting aspect to it.
AdamBut apparently, the inspiration for it, M. Night Shyamalan's inspiration was,
AdamI don't know if you're aware of it, there's a guy there was a case, it was a guy called Billy Milligan.
AdamAnd he was basically, I I've jotted down some bits on him.
Adamand it was kind of like a fate, it was like the first famous case of D.I.D.
Adamhe was a convicted armed robber and rapist in Ohio.
AdamAnd he was arrested in 1977 as the campus rapist after he committed a series of kidnapping and rapes of female students attending Ohio State University while he was on parole.
AdamSo he'd already been he'd already been arrested for armed robbery and rape and stuff.
Adamand then while they were preparing his defense case, he was diagnosed essentially he was diagnosed with D.I.D.
AdamAnd that so he was so he had a plea of not guilty due to reason of insanity.
AdamAnd he and Billy himself was maintaining that the crimes had been committed by his alters.
Adam
AdamSo he was not guilty, it was other personalities that had committed those crimes.
Adamand actually the defense worked.
ChrisYeah, it's funny isn't it because that
ChrisI don't know about you, it makes you feel like that seems like an excuse somehow, doesn't it?
LeeIt seems like the system has failed, because why all the other.
ChrisWow.
LeeThat person shouldn't be out in public.
ChrisYeah, well there is that.
AdamWell, I mean, he was found not guilty, but he was committed to the mental health system.
LeeOkay.
AdamSo he wasn't out, you know.
AdamBut it was committed to mental health facilities until such time as he regained sanity as it was in 1977.
Adamhe had initially they identified 10 personalities, that expanded to 24, as he was going through the sort of hospital.
AdamLike the psychiatric system.
Adamand again it was because he allegedly had a shockingly abusive childhood.
AdamYeah.
Adamand which seems to be in cases of D.I.D. that does seem to be very much the
ChrisThe factor that the factor.
AdamThat plays in is basically
ChrisI mean you can imagine that would mess your brain.
AdamOh, yeah.
AdamAnd
Adamit's
Adamand it's basically it's as it's it's a protection, it's a safety gap if you you generate something so that you are not
Adamthat is not being experienced by you, the other step in the way to take that on your behalf almost.
Adam
Adambut so then Daniel Keys, who wrote the science fiction novel Flowers for Algernon, published a book in 1980 called The Minds of Billy Milligan, which is kind of also what brought the case to the public.
AdamBut that meant that he became what can only be described as a celebrity patient.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo he got a lot more privileges than a lot of people.
AdamHe got a lot more leeway than a lot of patients who were in there.
AdamAnd at one point, I believe they moved him to a different hospital because he was probably responsible for some sexual assaults that had taken place offsite.
AdamNear to the hospital.
AdamSo they kind of I think they were like, right, we'll we'll shift him along, it's someone else's problem, we can't prove anything, but also we don't want to highlight the fact that this guy who should be
Adamunder lock and key, regardless of whether it's within the mental institution, is actually having a lot.
AdamI mean, at one point apparently he got arrested because the passenger of his car fired a shotgun at someone.
AdamAnd it's like, he's driving the fucking car with passengers.
AdamWhat the fuck?
AdamYou know, this is not.
Leegun.
AdamYeah, this doesn't feel so, you know.
Adamand then in 1986, he escaped and lived under the name Christopher Carr.
AdamAnd probably murdered his roommate of the time.
AdamSo I mean, it seems like a lot of and basically he was only recaptured after authorities were investigating this guy's disappearance.
AdamAnd found Billy Milligan, or as he was calling himself Christopher Carr, had sold this guy's car and was cashing his war checks and pension and disability allowance and stuff like that.
AdamAnd that's what got him brought back in.
AdamAnd then in 1988, he was diagnosed as in inverted commas solid.
AdamAnd was discharged.
AdamAnd then, oh, lovely, someone's written flaps and an erect cock on the bottom of my notes here.
AdamI can only assume that that's my good lady wife.
LeeOh, scientific advisor.
Adamand then he
LeeYeah, my scientific advisor's drawing a cock and flaps down here, that's nice.
LeeThey seem to be emanating from the crown.
LeeThe guy's got talent.
Adamand then he lived with his sister and was trying to get a film made of his life on the basis of the book.
Adameventually died in
Adam2014.
Adamso,
Adambut that was the case that kind of inspired like the thing.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd and it was one of those things where I believe there's actually there's a series called The Crowded Room that's I think it's on Apple or something like that, which I think is the adaption of the case.
AdamLike so it's
Adamso it's still quite a sort of big sort of thing you know, like it was but that was like the famous thing that brought it to the public's awareness.
Adambut it's
Adamas I say, I mean, clearly for sufferers of it, and I can you know, you understand, you don't from the point of point of view of mental health practitioners, you know,
Adammaking someone the villain and claiming that it's because of mental health issues.
AdamYou know, it's a dodgy area.
AdamBut equally, you know, I think within the this film is looking at something slightly different, this film is actually interested in the condition.
AdamAnd the way, and okay.
Adamyou know, it's done, but it's for me, it feels a bit like psycho.
AdamIt's like, you know, it's a thriller.
AdamBut it's it's not necessarily saying that, you know, there's an army of D.I.D. sufferers out there who are kidnapping girls and sacrifice them to one of their alters.
Adamit's but, you know, but it is and it is a fascinating
Adamsubject morbidly fascinating or not, you know, you know, whether it's whether it's casual interest or actually you're taking an interest.
AdamYou know, it's still something that is quite a fascinating and resonant thing and within the wider context, it really is quite a important part of the trilogy.
ChrisYeah, yeah, so.
AdamBut as as a stand alone film, I think it is a really good thriller.
LeeOh, yeah.
ChrisSo is it because you don't so you only get a hint that there's something else at the end?
LeeYeah, so the Unbreakable came out first, which is the film with Bruce Willis.
ChrisThe whole rest of the film could be absolutely stand alone.
LeeWhere they first introduce him, again, he he's a kind of regular guy.
LeeHe survives a train crash that he shouldn't have survived.
LeeThat nobody else survived.
ChrisOkay.
LeeAnd then he gets it in his head that he's some kind of superhero.
LeeWell, he starts.
Leetesting himself.
AdamHe gets someone contacts him who is a comic book fan and it's Samuel L. Jackson's character and he basically is someone, he's got brittle bone disease.
ChrisOkay.
AdamAnd he's of the opinion that if he exists, there's some there's probably someone who's at the opposite end of the spectrum of someone who is unbreakable.
ChrisYeah, okay.
AdamSo he but he sort of filters it through how comic books are done and so in a weird way Unbreakable is like an origin story for Bruce Willis's character as he discovers that he is a superhero, essentially.
Chris
Adamand it's not and it's not just that he is tough, it's like they work out that he's never been ill and he's never you know, and and actually they also realize because he's the character in it is a security guard.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd he they sort of realize that he has essentially a sixth sense.
ChrisOh, that yeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisNo, that just reminded me, so that is actually the other M. Night film, isn't it? Six sense?
AdamYes, yeah.
AdamSo so he did basically M. Night did
AdamI think he did like two romantic comedies and then did The Sixth Sense.
AdamYeah. And then Unbreakable came out.
AdamNow the weird thing is, is Unbreakable is essentially a superhero movie, but it was it came out in 2000.
AdamAnd at the time, the studio were like, no, we're going to market this as a supernatural thriller.
AdamBecause superhero movies are shit and no one watches them.
ChrisNo.
AdamBecause studios really can predict things so well.
ChrisWhy is it not? So when when did the superhero thing kick off? It was like a year after that.
AdamBearing in mind, it's Warner Vesta, so that's fucking Disney.
AdamSo it's Disney who are like, nah, superhero movies aren't worth jack shit.
LeeIt's like, well, that explains why you paid through the nose for fucking Marvel then, didn't it, mate?
AdamBut
LeeYeah, it doesn't doesn't.
Adamit's so but yeah, other time, but it doesn't feel like a superhero movie to be fair, like it's very it is like a guy who's discovering that he's got these kind of abilities.
LeeBut as you say, not like in a Spider-Man type, oh my God, look at that type, like it's very grounded and realistic, which is why I like it so much.
AdamIt's very watchman.
AdamIt's that thing like Watchman is of what happens if there's superheroes in the world, but this is much more on the mundane level of what if you discover you're a superhero?
AdamAnd what does that mean because the world doesn't have superheroes, you know what I mean?
AdamIt's like Watchman's the extrapolation of where would you be in the 80s if the superheroes of the 30s etc had been around and built up this whole situation.
AdamWhereas Unbreakable is basically, oh, it's the year 2000 and by the way, you might be a superhero.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd it's very sort of domestic, it's very low-key.
Adamand the weird thing was is because I I wanted to see Split and then the internet obviously was not going to let that go that this turned out to be a a 16 year later stealth sequel to Unbreakable.
Chris
AdamBy the fact that Bruce Willis's character David Dunn turns up at the end of it.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd so it was so
Adamwhen I wanted to see Glass because I really wanted to see sorry, when I wanted to see Split.
AdamI then watched Unbreakable because Unbreakable had been a film that was on my radar and then I just forgot about it because it was like, like I said, I didn't see The Sixth Sense because I worked out the twist.
AdamAnd then when I
ChrisBut when you said that the other day, I was thinking, is it worth watching again? Like I'm so tempted to watch it.
ChrisBecause I I've only seen it once.
ChrisIt does sort of seem like totally not worth it.
AdamI don't know.
AdamI've never had the motivation.
AdamBut but then curiously enough with
Adamwith Unbreakable when I read about I remember reading reviews of it at the time and actually it didn't do as well because it wasn't another Sixth Sense.
AdamIt was something different.
Adambecause how dare people do that.
AdamYou know.
AdamBecause you'd rather
Adambecause basically what I'd rather is someone took a shit in my hands and then did it three times a day for the rest of my fucking life.
AdamAnd it's exactly the same with the same bit of sweetcorn in there, you know.
AdamRight, but anyway, that's me having a rant.
AdamBut I think that so I wanted to what I thought, oh, I'll definitely check out Unbreakable when I get the chance.
AdamHadn't.
AdamAnd then I was like, well, I don't want to go into Split because I didn't know quite how.
AdamAnd literally, it's that sort of
Adamthe film ends, the words Split comes up and then you get that little sequence.
LeeYeah.
LeeIt's not post-credits or anything.
LeeIt's right there.
AdamIt's right there, but it's but also that's literally the connection from the rest of the film you don't sort of there's not like
Adamactually.
AdamThere is one thing.
AdamM. Night Shyamalan is in Split.
AdamHe's the guy who who's who's going through the comic books.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamHe's got the food from it.
AdamBut here's the best bit.
AdamHe does turn up in Glass and he's in Unbreakable.
AdamAnd in Unbreakable, he plays a guy that Bruce Willis nearly busts at the football stadium.
AdamWhere he works security as a drug as a drug dealer.
LeeOh, which he then mentions in Glass.
AdamHe mentions it in Glass that he is, oh, yeah, I, I remember you, yeah, I turned over a new leaf, I was having a bad.
AdamAnd it's basically that he nearly got busted and so he
Adamdecided to get out of the game and then he ends up as the security guard at Dr. Fletcher's apartment building.
AdamAnd yeah.
AdamSo so technically there are there are some links.
AdamBut
Adamand
Adamand in actual fact, as I say, Unbreakable, there's bits where Bruce Willis works out that as he if he comes into physical contact with people, he can sometimes tell if they've committed a criminal act, or they're going to commit a criminal act, or whatever like that.
AdamAnd at one point, there's a sequence where he just touches loads of people and he gets loads of flashes of what evil shit people have done.
AdamOne of them is a woman who is knocking her kid about.
Adam
ChrisRight, seems plausible.
AdamFan theory has gone that it's meant to be.
LeeYeah.
AdamKevin's mum.
ChrisYeah.
LeeOh.
AdamBut I mean, but there's there's nothing to I don't think it's the same actress, I don't think it's there's anything to suggest that other than it sort of would fit in.
AdamAnd there are other linking sort of areas and stuff like that.
ChrisYeah.
Adambut I think that.
LeeI just
LeeI just I yeah, I I know you'd mentioned earlier about the fact that it's so so few actors in this film.
LeeI was the same as you, Chris, like anything that Anya Taylor-Joy's in is always because I know she's always despite her age and the fact she hasn't really been doing stuff for that long.
LeeI say that, I'm an old man, she probably has been for a decade now and it feels like she's been around for ages.
ChrisWell, but it's crazy how young she is in The Witch, now.
LeeSo.
LeeYeah, always give such a stellar performance.
LeeLike, yeah, and I thought she was so well cast in this.
ChrisThey see it.
ChrisI think she's like the the type of performance she does just seems to fit the films perfectly.
ChrisShe does seem to get cast, you know, just right.
AdamWell, also the really good thing is she's playing have you heard that they're doing a a prequel to Mad Max Thunder Road?
Lee
AdamAnd it's
LeeOh.
Adamthe story of Furiosa, like Charlie's
Adamtheron's character and Anya Taylor-Joy is playing Furiosa.
Lee
LeeThat is amazing. I can't wait for that.
AdamBut also, I think that what I love as well is you've got that contrast in this of survival from childhood trauma.
AdamYeah.
AdamTrauma.
AdamWhere Casey has gone a different route.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd but Casey knows how to survive the situation.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd actually at first you're kind of like not on you're not with her.
AdamBecause the other girls are like, well, if we hit him with a chair or whatever like that.
ChrisYeah.
AdamWhereas she's got like, look, I've been here and we are,
Adamyou know, it doesn't it's not going to go as you think it's going to go.
AdamI think she actually says that at one point.
LeeYeah, she does.
LeeAnd and that's that's what got me was so so the first 20 minutes of the film.
LeeI was convinced that she'd had an experience with this guy before and he'd targeted her because she seemed so knowing.
LeeYeah, so then seeing that development of how actually it's not, she just she's been in horrible situations.
LeeShe knows what to do.
LeeYeah.
LeeEspecially that point when he when he first tries to take that girl out and she says just pee on yourself.
AdamYes.
LeeAnd I was like, oh, she obviously knows something.
LeeIt's like, oh, no, she she does in the wider sense of the thing, but she doesn't she doesn't know him specifically. yeah, so that's again that's from.
LeeDespite the fact I've seen it, it's still again.
AdamThat also, I think it's very interesting that there's the bit when there's the thing from when she's a kid, when she pulls a gun on her uncle.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd obviously, there's a part of you that's like, yeah, blow that fucking non's head off.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut it's kind of like where does leave a little kid.
LeeYeah.
LeeI exactly.
Adamin terms of
LeeI had exactly the same thought. I was like, oh, she should have just blasted him and it was like,
ChrisThat is, that is the first thought.
ChrisYeah.
LeeBut then she then she.
ChrisBut then you realize.
LeeYeah, because then she loses her dad, so if he wasn't there, despite the fact he's abusive, she would have just ended up in the system and you're like.
AdamShe probably end up in the system if she had killed him anyway because it would have been like, you know, that's the thing.
AdamShe would not have been with her dad, you know.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut also, it's interesting that she doesn't fucking hesitate to shoot Kevin.
LeeYeah.
AdamBecause it's like you're in that position and it's like, right, okay, no, I've got to take advantage of this opportunity.
ChrisThis is what I gotta do.
AdamAs it turns out, you can't kill the Beast.
ChrisCan't kill it.
AdamYeah.
AdamBecause the Beast has because the Beast is fucking super strong.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamWell, actually, because because the thing is it's meant to be that he's like an amalgam of all the creatures in the zoo.
AdamAnd
AdamI didn't because I don't know there's the term for like elephants and rhinos where it's that very thick skin.
AdamAnd
AdamI didn't realize that that's actually it it translates to strong wall.
AdamThat's where the origin of that word comes from.
AdamBut again, he develops that sort of so he's he's essentially armored.
ChrisYeah.
LeeAnd because his physical changes. I know we've said about James McAvoy and how absolutely astonishing his performance is, but even his like his physical appearance.
LeeYeah, when he goes from, you know, his his other characters basically to being.
LeeThey must have literally just given him a load of weights and he just got a massive pump on and then they just.
LeeBecause like he's he looks massive, but then when you see him as the other characters, he doesn't and I don't think it's CGI, I think they've literally just, I'm assuming they shot them so that the the shots where he's playing Patricia and stuff are earlier on.
LeeAnd then they probably got him to bulk up as the film's gone.
AdamBecause it must it must be said that by the time for I think for Glass, he's really gone for it.
AdamBecause he's going to be portraying the
Adamagain, spoiler, but he he plays the Beast more.
AdamOkay.
Adamin in Glass, that that personality comes out more.
AdamSo I think that for that he has really bulked up and it's noticeable that he is a lot heavier set than he is in this.
Adam
Adambut I think that that is just because it's like, no, you you've got to be able to sort of especially because it's like broad daylight and stuff like that.
AdamThere's nothing that can be suggested or whatever like that.
AdamYou're either a big bastard or you're not.
AdamAnd it's and interestingly enough, this was something one thing that I did see about, you know, like what might have been or whatever like that with it.
Adamis Joaquin Phoenix was offered the part and as they could it they couldn't reach a contractual agreement.
AdamWhich is I assume means he was asking for too much money.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut I'll be honest, Joaquin Phoenix, I can see it from the point of view of he's a fucking amazing actor and obviously, he's done his own villain origin story now.
AdamBecause he's done Joker.
AdamAnd, you know, I think he would be able to do, but I I'll be honest, I don't know that he is going to look that imposing.
LeeNo.
AdamBecause he is not I don't think he's got the frame to build on, if you see what I mean.
AdamThat he would look like that.
LeeAgain, none of the apart from the Beast, obviously, none of the personalities turn into kind of caricatures.
LeeHe just gets that balance right, so like Patricia isn't kind of over the top.
LeeAnd like he keeps it fairly grounded, yeah, and I think someone like Joaquin Phoenix, fantastic as he is.
LeeI think I might have gone more over the top with yeah, exactly.
LeeAnd then it loses all of its not believability.
ChrisBut there is something about it.
ChrisBeing feeling realistic.
ChrisTo some degree.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd actually, I mean, originally, Kevin Wendell Crumb was in was going to be in Unbreakable.
Adam
LeeYeah, I agree with that. I think he made the right call, making them two completely different movies. Yeah.
LeeAnd just dropping that little 10 seconds at the end that just makes you go, oh, shit, they exist in the same universe.
AdamI'll tell you what.
AdamThat is the one thing I would have loved I'd love to know how that felt.
AdamFor people who, you know, have sort of people fans of Unbreakable films of, because this was kind of like his comeback film, wasn't it?
LeeYeah.
AdamM. Night Shyamalan, this was the one where everyone was like, oh, no, he's done this is a a really effective thriller and it's, you know, it's not and then kind of there is a twist ending.
AdamBut the twist ending is oh, by the way, this is a sequel to a film that you possibly didn't watch 16 years ago.
LeeYeah, because I'd seen Unbreakable a few times and I didn't realize that that scene was in there. So when I saw it the first time, I was one of those lucky people who was like,
LeeBecause he got to the end and I was like, oh, man, there was no twist and then they did that. And I was like, yep, no, got me, totally got me.
AdamThat's how it twist.
AdamAnd and that is playing the long fucking game as well.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo.
AdamBut but no, I mean, I think that it I enjoy it as part of its whole thing.
AdamBut as as a stand alone film, I think it fucking works as well.
LeeYeah.
AdamWhich is, yeah.
LeeExcellent. Right.
LeeSo that definite recommend from all of us.
LeeI I'd say the whole trilogy is a recommend to be honest.
LeeYes, this is my favorite of them, but yeah, I I I think I need to possibly watch them all again in a in a proper order at some point as a bit of a marathon, so.
AdamI'll definitely watch it.
AdamMotivated me to finish it off and watch Glass finally and I'm I'm pleased I did.
ChrisAnd I want to watch some more some other M. Night Shya Malan.
LeeYes.
ChrisNow what was it it was Kevin in the woods?
ChrisShyamalan.
AdamShyamalan, yeah.
Chriswas it not Kevin in the woods?
LeeNo, not Kevin in the woods.
Leeyou're thinking of.
ChrisThe one that you mentioned.
LeeOh, horror film that was awful.
AdamThe visit.
LeeThe one I don't want to give it away.
ChrisKnock at the cabin.
LeeOh, God, yes!
LeeThat's the one.
LeeI wasn't even thinking of that.
LeeYeah.
AdamBut you also got signs, The Village, Lady in the Water, The Happening, The Visit.
AdamOld.
LeeThree of those are good films, I think.
ChrisYeah, that's it. You said it sort of 50/50.
LeeIt is, but again, when he gets it right, he really gets it right.
LeeHe gets it so right.
LeeYou're like, I might have watched two.
LeeI might have watched.
ChrisBut that's to be fair, like you gotta take risks, you gotta try things.
ChrisIt doesn't always work, yeah.
LeeYeah, no, 100%. I would rather someone like did this and did loads of stuff that didn't work and then when they get it, they get it right.
LeeRather than just playing it safe all the time.
ChrisTry and do exactly the same.
LeeAnd like Adam said, yeah.
LeeYou just end up with this.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou end up with you end up with a Sixth Sense part seven.
LeeYeah.
AdamAt which point no one gives a fuck.
LeeYeah.
LeeExcellent. Right. Thanks very much for listening everybody.
Leego and check out those movies. We're doing what we've been watching for our next episode, so
LeeI I've been I've been a busy little boy and we're still got two weeks to go, so
LeeYeah, plenty to look forward to.
LeeThanks very much for listening.
LeeGood night.
ChrisGood night.
AdamGood night.
