The Northman
01:26:44
About
It’s Chris’ birthday choice, and he’s chosen the bang-up-to-date, still-at-the- cinema, fresh-as-a-daisy “The Northman”, from WTH favourite Robert Eggers. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WE WILL BE THOROUGHLY SPOILING THE WHOLE MOVIE! A brutal yet brilliant film, in which Nicole Kidman prefers to Bang Claes; there are no bullshit blood eagles, but a (literal) shed load of ravens and at least one Hawke; and Björk shows us her less cryptic side. Along the way we discuss the 1954 BBC version of “Nineteen Eighty-Four”, “Piranha 3D” and “The House That Dripped Blood” Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers, and join us. • APOLOGIES FOR ANY SOUND/SPEECH QUALITY ISSUES - THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED REMOTELY, ON A LONGSHIP BOUND FOR ICELAND.
Silence, you Dog! By Freyr, you slander your Lord and Mistress?!
Famous lines
- "Skål!"
- "Your kingdom will not last."— King Aurvandill
- "Bring me the boys head!"— Fjölnir
- "I will avenge you, Father! I will save you, Mother! I will kill you, Fjölnir!"— Amleth
Quotes verified against Wikiquote.
Transcript
Show full transcript
UnknownGood evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamI'm Adam.
UnknownIt's a birthday celebration he says I can of coffee.
ChrisThat sounds like a great thing to celebrate with.
Leeso we are
AdamOh yeah.
LeeSo we are here for Chris's birthday choice this week.
Leewe are covering isn't strictly horror, but, you know, fuck it.
Leeoh yeah, there will be spoilers and there will be swearing.
Leeso we will be covering covering the recently released film by Robert Eggers, The Northman.
AdamYes.
LeeYes, so more on that shortly.
LeeBut before we get all too excited and dribbly.
LeeChris, what have you been watching?
ChrisSo I thought, I can't go for the third time and not watch anything, can I?
ChrisSo I I ensured that I watch something, right?
ChrisAnd I thought, what could I watch, I got tons of things I could watch.
ChrisBut I thought, let's just
AdamYou know the witch again, did you?
Christhe temptation was there, I'm not going to lie.
ChrisOr or even the lighthouse, that that could have been a up for a second viewing.
Chrisbut we'll come back to that.
ChrisBut yeah, I thought, I'll open Netflix, let's just have a look, see what's on there.
ChrisAnd and up comes Piranha featured.
ChrisAnd I thought, Piranha, that that sounds rubbish, doesn't it?
ChrisLike it's it's a rip off of a masterpiece.
Christhere's no way it could be any good whatsoever, right?
ChrisBut so I thought I'll just have a look, why are they featuring it for me, who knows?
ChrisSo I I'll have a quick look up the details and I saw that there was an original Piranha.
Chrisby directed by Joe Dante and written by Roger Corman.
Adam-
ChrisAnd I thought, oh yeah, well they've been mentioned a lot, I love Gremlins, that was probably a good one.
ChrisI don't have that to hand.
ChrisAll right, I'm now going to just try the remake.
ChrisLet's just see what they've managed to do on this other rip off, potential rip off of Jaws.
ChrisI thought I'm going to set my expectations correctly, I'm not expecting anything.
ChrisAnd and it started playing, I realized there's Richard Dryfus in it.
ChrisOh, that's pretty weird.
Adam
LeeYes.
ChrisWhy would he be in a complete rubbish film that's ripping off something that he's done, you know, that he's just gone down in history as one of the best films, right?
ChrisBut he's only in it
AdamI will I will stop you there, Chris.
AdamHe did fucking bake off last year.
ChrisOh yeah.
AdamSo I think he's at loose ends.
ChrisIt could that could be true.
Chrisbut I thought I'll just give it a go, right?
ChrisAnd and and as it was playing out, I thought, yeah, this is this is silly.
ChrisBut as each scene was happening, I was like, he's quite entertaining.
ChrisWe've got spring break.
ChrisTick, yep, okay.
ChrisWe got crazy setup for the story.
ChrisWe got some very entertaining characters.
Chrisand it was getting better and better.
ChrisAnd then it got ridiculous, but still quite entertaining.
ChrisAnd then I was like, all right, how far are they going to push this core?
ChrisNo, they they are.
ChrisThey are going to push this, this is just they they're going all on.
ChrisThis is this is just gore.
Chrisyou know, it's it is it's gory and it's it's what you want in this sort of film, I suppose.
ChrisNow, it's definitely not one I would have chosen really.
ChrisBut I was just in that mood for just clicking play and seeing what happened.
ChrisAnd I got to say, I definitely don't feel like it was a wasted time, I definitely enjoyed it.
ChrisI probably won't rush back and watch it.
ChrisI won't highly recommend it to many people.
ChrisBut a few people, I could recommend it to.
LeeYeah.
LeeIf I remember correctly, I went and saw this at the cinema and then went back three days later with Ben and Adam.
ChrisOh yeah.
LeeYou need to come and watch this.
ChrisThat's it.
LeeYeah with the right people a crowd watching this that it would be a lot of fun.
LeeYeah.
AdamIt's part it's party horror all the way.
ChrisDefinitely, yep.
ChrisThey they they got it right, that's what they went for and they they achieved what they set out to do.
AdamIt was oddly refreshing as well because you'd got because you'd got so used to like.
AdamI will we'll make a horror film of 15 because we want to get teens in.
ChrisOkay.
AdamAnd then we went and saw this and it's like, no, there's actual tits.
ChrisYes.
AdamIt's like skin off.
AdamYeah, people are, you know, there's blood everywhere.
ChrisIt it was no holds bard.
AdamYeah, it's it don't it don't really didn't shit about.
AdamAnd it was sort of like, yeah, it was a refreshing sort of watch because it was like, man, this is yeah, this is a horror film, this is a teen horror film.
AdamYou're not meant to be old enough to see this, but you will.
ChrisYeah, definitely.
AdamCuz wasn't cuz I think we saw it in 3D, didn't we? because it was because it was released as Piranha 3D, was it?
ChrisYeah, it was.
AdamOh yeah.
ChrisOkay, I mean interesting I
ChrisYeah, I didn't realize that, but then I did see the cover said 3D and I was like, okay, yeah.
ChrisI can see that might have even added a bit more to this, this is perhaps quite a good candidate for just ridiculous over the top 3D things.
ChrisI mean the the special effects they're not amazing, you know, the the the 3D the computer generated effects, you know, they're bit silly some of them.
ChrisBut it's still, you know, you just don't care, you just like.
ChrisIt's just fun craziness.
AdamThey're still they're still a notch up from that sort of blood of Sharknado.
ChrisYeah, okay, I'm no it could be way worse.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisYeah.
AdamDefinitely. Takestand or whatever.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah, I just
ChrisSo yeah, it's good fun.
Leeagain, it was one of those in the cinema where like the atmosphere was both times, the atmosphere was what everyone was hollering and laughing.
ChrisYeah, that would that would add to it even more, yeah, definitely.
LeeFantastic film.
ChrisGood call.
Leedon't watch don't watch the follow up.
LeePiranha 3 double D.
LeeReally bad.
ChrisI did see that mentioned, okay.
LeeYeah, no, save save yourself the hour and a half and watch watch the witch again because yeah, you won't enjoy it, it's not good.
LeeExcellent, well done.
LeeAdam, I know you've obviously been under the weather recently.
LeeBut have you managed to squeeze anything in?
Adamyeah, a couple of couple of fingers up my bum.
AdamNo, I've I've watched.
AdamI've finally managed to watch cuz this was so galling.
Adamthey finally released the BBC 1984 with Peter Cushing.
LeeYes.
AdamFinally after fucking years of legal wrangles and bullshit and everything else like that.
AdamFinally enough people have died that they couldn't hold it back any longer.
AdamIt's like like when Stanley Kupe died and suddenly it's like, do you want a orange, we've got three copies of it here.
AdamIt's like
AdamBecause I don't think they were that they were as concerned as Stanley about keeping it out of the public gaze.
AdamSo, but yeah, so finally that got released.
AdamI and I'm going to call I'm going to call him out.
AdamI ordered it on Amazon, Amazon managed to lose the fucking parcel.
AdamAnd then I'm panicking because they're saying, oh yeah, well you can get your money back.
AdamAnd it was like, okay, I'll reorder it.
AdamAnd then it said, yeah, available in three to five months.
AdamAnd I thought, fuck you, bastards because I know what they're talking, it's limited edition.
AdamSo I thought, right, so that's three to five months followed by couldn't get it anywhere.
Adamso I went old school.
AdamAnd HMV had it, so I.
AdamWell, Claire very kindly rang up, reserved me a coffee because a copy because I was doing my pieces.
Adamand
AdamYeah, so I got I went and picked it up, but I only managed to watch it the other night, because I've been rough as a box of frogs.
AdamSo.
AdamYou know, like a near two-hour black and white 1954 adapt of 1984 was probably going to be a bit of an half.
ChrisYeah.
Adamwhile while my head was swimming.
Adambut.
AdamI mean, it looks fucking incredible.
AdamFor something that's made that long ago.
AdamThe film.
Adamin because when it went out, it went it was broadcast live.
AdamAnd they had filmed inserts as well of like for exterior shots and things basically to give people the opportunity to change their clothes or move to the next set or whatever like that.
LeeYeah, yeah.
Adamand those bits look like you filmed them yesterday.
AdamThey are incredibly.
AdamAnd even the sort of the older telerecording of like the studio stuff still looks amazing.
Adam
AdamPeter Cushing is, you know, barely shaving.
Adam
AdamDonald Pleasance is in it and Donald Pleasance is both a child and yet already bald.
Adam
AdamAnd and interestingly enough, and this is just a weird one out of here, but I know that you'll know who I'm talking about, Lee.
AdamThere was a woman in it and I was like, I bloody know her from something.
AdamAnd when I looked it up, she's the woman who she's the char lady who shares.
AdamRalph Fiennes's office in Fiennes and Catplay.
AdamYeah.
LeeThat's crazy.
AdamWow.
AdamI like the put upon neighbor woman.
Adambut yeah, and still really good, still really, just still fucking works, you know.
AdamIt's incredible that something that old because I mean obviously when they made it, it the book had only been out sort of six years.
AdamSo, you know, it wasn't it was pretty fresh then, but it's still, yeah.
AdamStill really holds up and just the idea of what they would like, what I think nowadays is is like it almost works as a nostalgia dream for oppressive regimes.
AdamWhere it's like, oh, we didn't have the internet and we didn't have people and people didn't have phones.
AdamWe could we could still be doing this shit, we could still be rewriting history and claiming that we didn't say that and we did do this and so on and so forth.
AdamAnd yeah, but yeah.
AdamI mean, I recommend the shit out of it.
AdamAnd I'm counting it as horror because when they first basically because at the time the BBC used to do stuff live.
AdamSo they broadcast it they broadcast it one Sunday.
AdamAnd there were questions in the house.
AdamThere was uproar.
AdamYeah, all the newspapers jumped on it the same way they can do nowadays.
AdamBut it was all like, BBC showing filthy torture and how dare they put this on our screens, this is, you know, despicable feel bad stuff just to make people feel terrible and blah, blah, blah.
Adamand so they weren't going to show it the following week.
Adamthen it turned out the queen really liked it.
AdamSo they were like, oh, okay, yeah, we will redo it then because her majesty has given us the given us the week.
AdamCuz I'll tell you what, I favor a Republic, but our own dear queen does seem to have pretty good TV taste.
Adambut
AdamYeah, and so they they redid it and they recorded it.
AdamCuz the first one went out live, they didn't record it.
AdamThey just put it on.
AdamAnd it was only because they were staging it that they took the opportunity and filmed it and we still got it, which is such a rarity of telly of that age.
LeeYeah.
Adamso, yeah.
LeeImagine they're doing something and then we're going to show it again in a week's time, so we've got a completely re-acted thing.
LeeThat's mental to think that that was a thing.
AdamI mean, yeah, but then I suppose it's just.
AdamIt's at the time it was like theater.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know, it's it's much the same as you sort of do it every night and so on and so on.
AdamBut I mean, yeah, just they really, I think that it was a weird one because it was like, as I say, there was it was obviously a slow news week.
AdamWhen, you know, everyone's moaning about what was on the telly on Sunday.
AdamBut yeah, it sort of generated enough press that at the at one point the BBC were like, oh, no, we won't do it again because it's been, yeah.
AdamBut it's also they've added a thing on there which I've never seen before.
AdamCuz I used to have it on VHS off of a repeat from like 94.
AdamAnd so that went the way of all.
AdamFlesh years and years ago, that did.
Adambut.
Adamat the start of it, they've actually got just the announcer is sitting down and talking.
AdamBut it's so grown up, it's lovely.
AdamIt's really refreshing because it's basically, right, we are presenting the play of 1984.
AdamIt features torture.
AdamPossibly the most important and and interestingly, they take the themes from it because they're saying one of the most important things with this is the lack of hope.
AdamThat this this leads you with because of you, you know, as the story progresses and so on and so forth.
AdamAnd then it's basically, so please make the decision that if you feel that there are members of your household who shouldn't watch this.
AdamIncluding yourselves, please, you know, you know, don't don't watch it.
ChrisI'm sure that was shown as silly pandering there.
ChrisCan't you know.
AdamI I don't I don't know, cuz I mean it just felt right because it was just like, we're going to show we're showing this shit.
AdamWe're not going to not show you this.
ChrisBut we're just giving you little heads up.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut on your head beat it, if you want to show your kids this and they have nightmares all night, tough tips, cuz you've made that decision.
AdamOr, you know, if this is going to give you the EBGBs, don't watch it.
ChrisDo you think do you think anyone managed to get any of their kids to to watch it?
AdamOh, well, I mean, the interesting thing is and it's one of the my favorite aspects of 1984 is that there is.
Adamin it, he's got a neighbor who is very for the party and everything else like that.
AdamAnd his kids are arseholes.
AdamThey're the most dreadful pair of pricks.
AdamBecause and at the end of it, I mean, spoiler alert for a book that's been out since 1948.
Adamat the end of it, his own kids denounce him for thought crime.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd it's like, and but he's so in the party and so in the mindset that he's like, well, the police don't make mistakes.
AdamThey wouldn't have arrested me for something I didn't do.
AdamSo I must have done it.
LeeGod.
AdamAnd it's like this terrifying sort of thing, but again, it's like these kids are monsters because they know they have this power.
AdamYou know, that that much as anyone does, I mean, you know, it's sort of, yeah.
AdamAnd it's a real sort of even now, I mean, I think it just is.
AdamJust brilliantly done and conceived.
AdamAnd yeah.
LeeCool, I have I have got it, so I will be watching it.
LeeSo hopefully, I'll give you my because I don't know the story at all, so I'm going to be watching it a fresh, yeah.
AdamYeah.
LeeHopefully this week, so.
ChrisYou you've lived through some of it, but from that, you don't know any of it.
AdamWell, the weird thing is when you watch it, you will just go, oh, right, that's where that comes from because it's so many things, room 101, Big Brother, news speak, thought crime, thought police, they're all from 1984.
AdamAnd you're like, at the end of it, it feels like, you know, like it's like when you go through Shakespeare and you realize how many phrases were originated in Shakespeare plays.
AdamIt's that same sort of thing where you're like, oh, right, okay, so this is where that comes from, this is where that comes from and so on.
AdamSo.
LeeExcellent.
LeeCool, I'm looking forward to it.
AdamYeah, go for it.
AdamIt's and Peter Cushing's just chef's kiss.
AdamI mean, he's just great in it.
Adamthe only other thing that I've watched is obviously Inside Number Nine is back.
LeeYes, it is.
LeeAnd the second episode is horror all over.
AdamWow.
AdamI literally I've literally just watched that before we started.
AdamAnd I am buzzing my tits off because that was so fucking good.
Adam
AdamI enjoyed the first one, it was a bit more sort of low key.
AdamAnd certainly like more moving, the one with Mark Gatiss.
LeeYeah.
Adamin there as well because you kind of expect, oh, well if Mark's going to be in it.
AdamThey'll probably really ramp up the horror.
AdamSo I think it was quite nice that they were like, that was their that was their twist almost that it was like, no, we're not doing a, you know, we're not doing a grand sort of thing just because he's here.
Adam
AdamBut yeah, no, that's that second episode, Mr. King was, oh.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamThat's right up there with the best of them.
LeeAbsolutely, yeah, totally blown away by that.
Lee
LeeSo for me, I I yeah, I also watched obviously Inside Number Nine.
Leeand then last night we have a guest here, previous guest of the show on Maggie is here at the moment.
AdamHey.
LeeAnd following the last time she was here and came on the podcast and I showed her Dr. Terris House of Horrors.
LeeI said, what would you like to watch this evening and she said I would like more of that, please.
Leeso we sat down and watched the house that dripped blood.
AdamHey.
LeeAnd unsurprisingly enough, yeah, she absolutely loved it because it's such a good film.
AdamOh, it's good.
AdamYeah.
LeeOh.
AdamThat's that's one we've got to do coming up at some point.
LeeYeah, absolutely, it's it's so much fun.
LeeSo yeah, so I'm really glad cuz otherwise I wouldn't have watched anything and I've I've currently now left them downstairs this evening to watch the Wolf of Snow Hollow.
ChrisOh yeah, yeah.
LeeSo I'll I'll report back on how that one goes down.
Lee
LeeYes, so I think that's everything caught up.
LeeSo again, we will reiterate, obviously, normally we do older films, but we are doing something that is very current.
LeeSo if you haven't seen The Northman yet.
ChrisYeah.
LeeObviously, we are about to spoil it.
Lee
LeeBut I think because I I I was sitting with Jennifer discussing it this afternoon.
Lee
LeeAnd I sort of talked her through the story of it and said, you know, this film isn't about the story, it's the journey.
LeeSo so don't feel if you haven't seen it, that it's necessarily going to spoil it to hit.
LeeI mean, Adam, you said, was it you who said that this was the the old story.
LeeWhich Shakespeare adapted into Hamlet, was it you who talked about that?
AdamYes, yeah.
ChrisYeah, you did, yeah.
LeeSo it so it's a well-trodden story, but.
LeeWow.
LeeSo Chris, as this was your choice, take it away, give us your thoughts on this.
ChrisWell, I I'd just like to say what a great choice.
LeeOn.
ChrisI don't know if I'm blowing blowing my trumpet.
ChrisBut you know.
AdamSelf applause is no applause.
ChrisBut yeah, so I mean it was it was quite a step up in action.
ChrisI was trying to think of all of the films that Robert Eggers has done.
ChrisSo obviously we've got the Witch, The Lighthouse.
ChrisI don't know we've seen both of those.
ChrisWe haven't seen any others, I don't think, have we?
AdamThat's that's it.
ChrisThat's it.
ChrisThat is pretty much he's done he's done some shorts, I think.
AdamI think, yeah, he's done some short films.
AdamIn fact.
AdamOh, balls, I meant to look that up.
AdamI'm sure he's done a version of Hansel and Gretel.
LeeOh.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
ChrisI've I've got that on IMDB, yeah, yeah, it was that was back in 2007.
ChrisThat was a very short.
AdamYeah.
AdamBecause it came up on, I can't remember what website it was on, it came up on there and then along it's probably still open as a tab on my phone.
AdamAlong with like 22,000 other things including, you know, Dr. Google.
AdamAnswers off of pointless and so on and so forth.
AdamSo yeah, it's lost in a very long stream.
ChrisBut yeah, so so this was a real step up in in action, really.
ChrisIt's still still.
ChrisIt certainly had the, you know, what is it kind of lonely element to it, you know, a lot of his journey was.
Chrishe, you know.
Chrishe's his old experience early on.
ChrisAnd then sort of everything happens to him, you're not exactly feeling at one with the world and.
Chrisyou know, a piece.
ChrisIt's it's quite a harrowing experience that most of his life.
Chrisand that's why I think you know, don't want to jump to the end and trying to think of not.
Chrisfully spoiling it.
ChrisBut it it definitely does go on a journey and you are with him and you do appreciate when he gets glimmers of of hope and good.
ChrisAnd the sort of the questioning aspect of what.
Chriswhat choice do I now make and obviously that that that gets intertwined with the the which.
ChrisAnd and his prophecy from his childhood as well.
ChrisAnd so it's yeah, it's fascinating to sort of think even if they are essentially supernatural.
ChrisYou know, you can still have experiences like that in life where you're like.
Chrishow do I sort of integrate this information into my my sort of next choices?
ChrisSo I yeah, and I mean, played out fantastically.
Chrisand some of the scenes were were amazing.
ChrisAnd it did like you said, it was.
ChrisMacbeth.
AdamHamlet.
ChrisSorry, Hamlet, yeah, I tend to mix it up, yeah.
ChrisHamlet is essentially the story of Hamlet.
Chrisit did remind me of Conan at points.
ChrisIs that?
AdamYeah, I think I think a lot of it is.
AdamThere's.
ChrisIs that the mythology?
AdamI think there's sort of archetypes, there's certain archetypes, I can't remember the name of the book, but there's.
AdamFor example, I think I sorry, I can't remember the author of the book, but there's the the thing the hero's journey.
AdamWhich people commonly apply to Star Wars.
ChrisYes, yeah.
AdamWhich is the thing of you have like, a young, naive prints.
AdamYou have an older advisor and stuff like that.
AdamSo I think that they're and people sort of pick and choose from those myths as they go.
Adambut I think that this is quite I mean, basically it's quite an old.
AdamFolk tale that is kind of it possibly predates it's.
Adamit's place in Viking or like folklore.
AdamIt they think it might actually be, they think it might actually be like.
AdamOriginally,
AdamSo, where are we?
AdamYeah.
AdamSo they think it might be.
Leehis notes.
AdamJust just just checking my notes, which have, I'll tell you what, this is the one thing though, is.
AdamI could have fucking researched this for the next 10 years of my life.
AdamRobert Eggers is just he doesn't mess around so good at.
AdamThat you know, of cuz I mean that was the thing with the witch.
AdamAnd the witch was kind of like a lot of it was stuff I knew or stuff that I was aware of.
AdamCuz when I first saw the witch, I was just so blown away by the fact that it was like, finally.
AdamThis is like this is this is witch mythology.
AdamIt's how.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know, it's not, you know, it's not sort of the ramped up version of it.
AdamIt's not the sort of Hollywood version of it, this is all stuff that is.
ChrisIt's authentic as you can make that film that aims to be entertainment as well.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd from that time period, from the the right sort of time period and the right sort of attitudes that people have.
ChrisI'd be tempted to say he did that in The Lighthouse as well because if I said to you, I'm I'm going to make a film about two guys in a lighthouse, you're like, how much you're going to get out of that?
ChrisAnd yet he's made, you know, essentially an epic tale of of loneliness in the lighthouse.
ChrisAnd adding to it sort of the myths of the sea and so on.
ChrisYeah.
AdamWell, I mean, this this was something that when when I was sort of like going through it.
AdamBecause so
AdamOne of the things that sort of came up was about animal symbolism, cuz he uses it a lot in all his films.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah.
ChrisOkay.
Adam
AdamAnd for example, this and but this is the thing that I found fascinating is when you look at it.
AdamSo, particularly with birds.
Adam
AdamObviously like in the witch you've got the transformations of the witch and stuff like that.
AdamBut with but it's all birds are very key in all three of Robert Eggers's movies.
ChrisYeah.
Adam
AdamAnd but the thing is, Robert Eggers puts them in the context of the mood and the attitude of the film and when it was based.
Adam
AdamSo I mean, obviously with with the lighthouse, you had the seagulls carrying the souls of dead sailors, which is like maritime law.
AdamWhich would be correct to.
Adampeople on a lighthouse, you know, it's so so it's work from that point of view as well as the echoing the myth of Prometheus.
AdamAt the at the climax at the end of that.
Adam
AdamObviously, I don't want to spoil the lighthouse for people because we we've covered the witch.
AdamSo we kind of a bit more spoiler already, so.
ChrisIt's funny, yeah, in my head, we'd covered the house, probably because you watched it and talked about it.
ChrisI watched it and talked about it.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut in but in in the witch, you have Ravens, like a Raven features.
AdamBut in that time period and in that setting.
AdamThey would be associated with sort of satanic evil, well, witches, the occult, that kind of thing.
AdamSo they are in the context of the witch when the Raven appears, it's only ill omened.
AdamIt's only, you know, it's it only spells disaster for the family.
AdamWhereas in this, in Norse law, Ravens are really like sort of powerful signs.
AdamYeah, they're they're really highly esteemed animals.
AdamBecause Odin himself has two Ravens that he sends throughout his realm to report back to him of news.
ChrisI was say, in a in a way, the Viking Norse it's like their whole society is kind of dark in a way, isn't it?
ChrisIt's like that's all except for whereas in the witch.
ChrisThey were meant to be like pure and good and godly and then the darkness is the Ravens.
ChrisIt's but whereas they're almost the opposite like, you know, Vikings are almost all kind of a satanic type of.
AdamIt's it's the power that comes with it, it's the power that comes with it, but they but in Norse mythology, they were they describe it as it's totemic and basically it's the idea of spirit animals or of animals that sort of define their characteristics.
Adamand Ravens were considered protectors and prophets.
AdamSo in this, they help Amleth in his like when they free him from his bonds and stuff like that.
AdamAnd so.
AdamWeirdly enough, in the context of the witch, the Raven will turn up and it's like.
AdamRight, that's Harbinger of things going wrong.
AdamWhereas in this, the Ravens are helping him and, you know, helping the protagonist of the story.
Adamand and even down to the fact that I I don't know if it's it's not particularly clear, but his father's name is War Raven.
LeeYeah.
AdamLike that's their family name, his War Raven.
AdamObviously, he loses that as he loses his family position and family name and has to go undercover for one of a better expression, you know.
Adam
AdamAnd and similarly similarly like with the wolf spirit that is passed to him through the ritual.
AdamWhen he's young just before his father's murder, when he goes when him and his father go through the ritual.
AdamWith Willem Dafoe.
ChrisYes, yeah.
AdamAnd that's where he defines him as the wolf spirit is what runs through their family.
AdamBut again.
AdamIt's just again, it's like Robert Eggers is just like it's just such a lovely sort of thing where it's like, you know, the the definitions change according to what he's working with.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd
AdamAlso, and this was very late in the day that I found this out, you know, there's a there's obviously the sequence where they raid the village quite near the start.
AdamWhen you when you first see Amleth grown up.
LeeWhen when he turns into our friend, Lord Owl.
AdamYes, yes.
LeeDid you know how much he looked like, Lord Owl?
AdamHe does, he does, yeah.
LeeWhen we're down at Jim, we can see that from Yeah.
AdamBut that that bit where they're on the Viking long like the the Viking long boats.
Adamthey were built as per Viking long boats.
LeeWow.
AdamRobert Eggers was like, oh, no, we need to have the.
AdamSo he had historical advisors in.
AdamAnd you know, just to make sure that everything was correct, so they were built exactly as a Viking long boat would be built.
AdamAnd there's nothing extra.
AdamThere's no super glue in there, they're not held together with like, I don't know, like fucking tungsten or something like that.
AdamThey are literally they're they're historically accurate long boats.
ChrisAll the correct materials.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd but then that's the thing is that they said that the point is it goes to prove the.
AdamThe know-how of the ship building of
ChrisYeah, they're already pretty advanced.
AdamYeah.
AdamThey they worked.
AdamAnd and they cut through the water like they said that wasn't like, you know, that's not an effect, that's not them being pulled.
Adamby like by a motorboat or anything else like that.
AdamThat they literally got a crew of these guys including Alexander Skarsgard and they are genuinely rowing those boats.
LeeWow.
AdamYeah.
AdamIt's.
AdamIncredible.
AdamIt's all it's like ritual reenactment.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamIf anything, if anything, if Sapphire and still turn up, Robert Eggers.
AdamShit yourself.
LeeYeah.
AdamYou've obviously done.
AdamYou've done it too well.
AdamYou know.
AdamAnd time is going to break through.
LeeYeah, it's got to be set like, like you said, the brutality of this as well is is very much how you would imagine.
LeeAs you said that that village raid scene when he's gone off and he's joined that game.
LeeThat was really difficult to watch.
LeeLike that was.
LeeReally extreme.
LeeBut in the I think that's the thing, I think it's important to bring that context into it because that was what life was like at the time, you can't you can't shy away from it if you've gone this this far down the rabbit hole of.
LeeWe're going to make this look and feel genuine.
LeeYou've got to do it.
LeeBut my God, it was harsh.
ChrisAnd what I really liked about that was that we don't see him as just a hero, is that whole time was you're both kind of good and bad because, you know, it's you've got to survive and.
ChrisYeah, essentially everyone will do that to each other if they're in position of power.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah, and this is the thing is that I think that they were very, by sort of looking into it, they were very keen that they weren't going to they wanted to dismiss like romantic notions of the Vikings.
AdamWithout taking away from, you know, cultural.
Adamyou know, sort of cultural elements and the fact, you know, they weren't they weren't purely just brutal.
LeeYeah.
LeeThey weren't sort of demonized, despite the fact what they were doing was horrific.
LeeAs you say, Chris, there was very much that if we don't do this to them, someone's going to do this to us.
ChrisCuz because who was it who was actually controlling them? I don't know if they they'd been bought as kind of mercenaries at that point because someone was in charge saying, I just want the strong ones and then they burnt down the house.
ChrisBut who was that who he looked like the the armor they were wearing was the same as the village that they were attacking and it was different to the Vikings.
ChrisSo it's.
ChrisThe Vikings had been been used.
AdamThe the village the village that they attacked is in Ruse, which is now basically Belarus.
ChrisOkay.
Adambut that was so essentially it was like, Eastern Slavic, so it's kind of a bit Russia, Ukraine, you know, sort of Eastern Europe is that that so that's where.
AdamThat's where that village is meant to be.
AdamAnd.
AdamBut.
AdamBut this was the thing is that they were, you know, it was literally you they had, well, like any culture, they had art, they had, you know, religion, they had, but they also were, you know, that was what it was.
AdamIt was the power of who whoever is the most powerful wins.
AdamYou're in a such a brutal sort of period of time.
AdamThat it's because as far as I can tell, Amleth is meant to have been taken in.
Adamby the group that he's with.
AdamSo it's almost like.
Adamhe's been adopted.
Adamand.
AdamBut obviously not making it clear quite who he is.
Adam
AdamBut I also think that it's the there's the interesting there's the interesting element that they.
Adamlike you say, they're only taking the strong and then it just becomes like pillage, rape, murder.
Adamthe barn full of burning children because they're no use.
AdamAnd you you sort of see this savage, what's what's the word I'm looking for.
AdamIt's like a business mind essentially.
AdamYou know, it's a very utilitarian methodical sort of a thing where it's like.
AdamNo, no, we we just.
AdamYou know, prosaic sort of thing where it's like.
AdamNo, we come, we get this, we do that.
AdamThey're no use.
AdamKill them.
AdamYou know what I mean? it's sort of like it's just utterly without any sort of.
AdamIt's utterly without any mercy, but you know, curious why almost without any malice.
ChrisYeah.
LeeBecause it was that.
LeeThat was what I was trying to say, when I said they're not demonized, they are because what they're doing is horrific.
LeeBut yeah, as you say, it's that it's not it's not a spiteful thing, it's a we need stuff.
LeeSo we're going to go and take what we need and what we don't need, we're going to destroy because if we don't, it's going to come back to buy us.
LeeAnd I you kind of get that impression as well with the with the children and stuff.
LeeIt is, it's that if we don't kill them, they will grow up to hunt us down at a later date, which is exactly what Amleth is doing, so you do get that kind of feeling of it's like a self-preservation thing.
LeeIf we don't wipe them out, they will be the next lot who will come after us when we're too old to protect ourselves.
LeeIt's.
LeeYeah, as you say, it's kind of.
LeeI know, it just felt.
LeeDistanced.
AdamYeah.
LeeBut but I think it doesn't the good thing is it doesn't shy away from that, you see Amleth walking around that village and he is monstrous.
LeeI mean.
LeeThat's the.
AdamYeah.
AdamThe sequence just beforehand where they're going through the Berserker ritual.
LeeYeah.
AdamAnd they're sort of adopting their the sort of rage of the creatures and everything else like that.
AdamCuz they yeah.
ChrisThey're wearing the wolf skins.
AdamThey wear the wolf like the the pelts or the bear pelts and stuff.
AdamCuz I cuz I didn't realize this.
AdamBut Berserker is derived from the words bear and shirt.
ChrisOh.
LeeOh.
AdamOh.
AdamSo it's basically yeah, wearing wearing the bear's skin or wearing a bear shirt.
ChrisAnd take on the soul of the bear.
AdamYeah.
AdamExactly cuz that's how they sort of interpreted what was what they were.
AdamBut there's.
ChrisYeah.
LeeI would bet.
AdamI would bet.
AdamI would bet.
AdamI would bet.
AdamProbably not.
AdamSo.
AdamYou know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.
AdamI mean.
AdamDo you need percussion.
AdamWhen you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.
AdamProbably not.
AdamYou've probably got all your aggression out there.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamCertainly not lost.
AdamThe chuck off your eye hat, you know.
LeeAnd your minstrels are definitely a target as well.
LeeYou know, I mean you couldn't have positions to take with you because they've probably been a bit busy.
AdamYeah, yeah.
AdamDon't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.
Adamon aka Sison who now goes by Seon.
AdamSo he's obviously gone Elvis on us.
ChrisYeah.
AdamMadonna.
Adamwho also wrote Dancer in the Dark.
AdamWhich was that film I was talking about.
AdamAnd also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.
AdamIt's.
Adamvery recent and basically.
AdamTwo people give birth to a human lamb.
Adam
AdamI've I've not seen it myself.
AdamAnd there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of you can you can go too A24 sometimes.
AdamI think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.
AdamYeah.
AdamI don't know.
AdamI mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it, but I haven't sorted it out.
Adambut he's also.
Adamhe's also an author.
AdamAnd has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.
Adamand again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers.
AdamHe's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.
AdamSo he really brought him in to.
AdamEnsure that everything was right and correct, but also he was like, like when the ending.
AdamLike he's like, I'll so I want him to come back.
AdamAnd he's going to fight him in a volcano.
AdamIs that really shit and Hollywood?
AdamOr does that still.
AdamDoes that feel right for this?
Adamand.
Adamand obviously got the go ahead.
AdamApparently.
AdamThe there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd that translates to gates of hell.
LeeYeah.
AdamSo yeah.
AdamI must confess.
AdamI was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.
AdamCuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.
Adam
AdamBut the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gainsworth.
AdamFuck me.
AdamIt's a fucking amazing soundtrack.
LeeYes.
Adamand again.
AdamThey like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.
Adamone thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure.
AdamJust because of no historical sort of nothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.
AdamThey don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music.
LeeOkay.
Adamwhich is something obviously they've they have drums, it I mean they've got fucking electronics in there.
AdamIt's not exactly, you know, it's not.
AdamThey're not sort of really going for that, but yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.
Adamto keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.
AdamOh, right.
AdamSo.
AdamSo.
AdamYou know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.
AdamI mean, do you need percussion when you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.
AdamProbably not.
AdamYou've probably got all your aggression out there.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamCertainly not lost.
AdamThe chuck off your eye hat, you know.
LeeAnd your minstrels are definitely a target as well.
LeeYou know, I mean you couldn't have to take with you.
LeeCuz they've probably been a bit busy.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah, don't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.
Adamon, aka Sison.
AdamSo he now goes by Seon, so he's obviously gone Elvis on us.
LeeYeah.
AdamMadonna.
Adamwho also wrote Dancer in the Dark.
AdamThat film I was talking about.
AdamAnd also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.
AdamIt's.
Adamvery recent and basically two people give birth to a human lamb.
Adam
AdamI've I've not seen it myself.
AdamAnd there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of.
AdamYou can you can go to A24 sometimes.
AdamSo I think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.
AdamYeah.
AdamI don't know, I mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it.
AdamBut I haven't.
Adamsorted it out.
Adambut he's also, he's also an author.
AdamAnd has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.
Adamand again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers, he's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.
AdamSo he really brought him in to ensure that everything was right and correct.
AdamBut also, he was like.
AdamLike when the ending.
AdamLike he's like, I'll so I want him to come back and he's going to fight him in a volcano.
AdamIs that really shit and Hollywood?
AdamOr does that still does that feel right for this?
Adamand and obviously got the go ahead.
AdamApparently.
AdamThe there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.
Adamand that translates to gates of hell.
AdamSo yeah.
AdamI must confess.
AdamI was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.
AdamCuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.
Adam
AdamBut the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gamesbrough, fuck me.
AdamIt's a fucking amazing soundtrack.
Leeand again.
AdamThey like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.
Adamone thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure, just because of no historical.
AdamSort of.
AdamNothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.
AdamThey don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music, okay.
Adamwhich is something obviously they've they have drums.
AdamI mean they've got fucking electronics in there.
AdamIt's not exactly, you know, it's not they're not sort of really going for that.
AdamBut yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.
Adamto keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.
AdamOh, right.
AdamSo.
AdamSo, you know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.
AdamI mean, do you need percussion when you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.
AdamProbably not.
AdamYou've probably got all your aggression out there.
LeeYeah, yeah.
AdamCertainly not lost.
AdamThe chuck off your eye hat, you know.
LeeAnd your minstrels are definitely a target as well.
LeeYou know, I mean you couldn't have to take with you.
LeeCuz they've probably been a bit busy.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah, don't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.
Adamon, aka Sison.
AdamSo he now goes by Seon, so he's obviously gone Elvis on us.
LeeYeah.
AdamMadonna.
Adamwho also wrote Dancer in the Dark.
AdamThat film I was talking about.
AdamAnd also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.
AdamIt's.
Adamvery recent and basically two people give birth to a human lamb.
Adam
AdamI've I've not seen it myself.
AdamAnd there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of.
AdamYou can you can go to A24 sometimes.
AdamSo I think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.
AdamYeah.
AdamI don't know, I mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it.
AdamBut I haven't.
Adamsorted it out.
Adambut he's also, he's also an author.
AdamAnd has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.
Adamand again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers, he's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.
AdamSo he really brought him in to ensure that everything was right and correct.
AdamBut also, he was like.
AdamLike when the ending.
AdamLike he's like, I'll so I want him to come back and he's going to fight him in a volcano.
AdamIs that really shit and Hollywood?
AdamOr does that still does that feel right for this?
Adamand and obviously got the go ahead.
AdamApparently.
AdamThe there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.
Adamand that translates to gates of hell.
AdamSo yeah.
AdamI must confess.
AdamI was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.
AdamCuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.
Adam
AdamBut the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gamesbrough, fuck me.
AdamIt's a fucking amazing soundtrack.
Leeand again.
AdamThey like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.
Adamone thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure, just because of no historical.
AdamSort of.
AdamNothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.
AdamThey don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music, okay.
Adamwhich is something obviously they've they have drums.
AdamI mean they've got fucking electronics in there.
AdamIt's not exactly, you know, it's not they're not sort of really going for that.
AdamBut yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.
Adamto keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.
AdamOh, right.
Adam
