The Northman

0:24 Unknown Good evening and welcome to Horror. I'm Lee.

0:27 Chris I'm Chris.

0:28 Adam I'm Adam.

0:30 Unknown It's a birthday celebration he says I can of coffee.

0:36 Chris That sounds like a great thing to celebrate with.

0:40 Lee so we are

0:41 Adam Oh yeah.

0:44 Lee So we are here for Chris's birthday choice this week.

0:48 Lee we are covering isn't strictly horror, but, you know, fuck it.

0:54 Lee oh yeah, there will be spoilers and there will be swearing.

0:58 Lee so we will be covering covering the recently released film by Robert Eggers, The Northman.

1:46 Adam Yes.

1:48 Lee Yes, so more on that shortly.

1:50 Lee But before we get all too excited and dribbly.

1:55 Lee Chris, what have you been watching?

1:58 Chris So I thought, I can't go for the third time and not watch anything, can I?

2:02 Chris So I I ensured that I watch something, right?

2:04 Chris And I thought, what could I watch, I got tons of things I could watch.

2:08 Chris But I thought, let's just

2:09 Adam You know the witch again, did you?

2:11 Chris the temptation was there, I'm not going to lie.

2:15 Chris Or or even the lighthouse, that that could have been a up for a second viewing.

2:19 Chris but we'll come back to that.

2:21 Chris But yeah, I thought, I'll open Netflix, let's just have a look, see what's on there.

2:25 Chris And and up comes Piranha featured.

2:29 Chris And I thought, Piranha, that that sounds rubbish, doesn't it?

2:33 Chris Like it's it's a rip off of a masterpiece.

2:35 Chris there's no way it could be any good whatsoever, right?

2:38 Chris But so I thought I'll just have a look, why are they featuring it for me, who knows?

2:42 Chris So I I'll have a quick look up the details and I saw that there was an original Piranha.

2:46 Chris by directed by Joe Dante and written by Roger Corman.

2:53 Adam -

2:54 Chris And I thought, oh yeah, well they've been mentioned a lot, I love Gremlins, that was probably a good one.

3:00 Chris I don't have that to hand.

3:02 Chris All right, I'm now going to just try the remake.

3:05 Chris Let's just see what they've managed to do on this other rip off, potential rip off of Jaws.

3:11 Chris I thought I'm going to set my expectations correctly, I'm not expecting anything.

3:16 Chris And and it started playing, I realized there's Richard Dryfus in it.

3:19 Chris Oh, that's pretty weird.

3:21 Adam

3:22 Lee Yes.

3:22 Chris Why would he be in a complete rubbish film that's ripping off something that he's done, you know, that he's just gone down in history as one of the best films, right?

3:30 Chris But he's only in it

3:31 Adam I will I will stop you there, Chris.

3:33 Adam He did fucking bake off last year.

3:35 Chris Oh yeah.

3:35 Adam So I think he's at loose ends.

3:39 Chris It could that could be true.

3:41 Chris but I thought I'll just give it a go, right?

3:44 Chris And and and as it was playing out, I thought, yeah, this is this is silly.

3:47 Chris But as each scene was happening, I was like, he's quite entertaining.

3:51 Chris We've got spring break.

3:52 Chris Tick, yep, okay.

3:53 Chris We got crazy setup for the story.

3:58 Chris We got some very entertaining characters.

4:00 Chris and it was getting better and better.

4:02 Chris And then it got ridiculous, but still quite entertaining.

4:07 Chris And then I was like, all right, how far are they going to push this core?

4:10 Chris No, they they are.

4:11 Chris They are going to push this, this is just they they're going all on.

4:15 Chris This is this is just gore.

4:16 Chris you know, it's it is it's gory and it's it's what you want in this sort of film, I suppose.

4:21 Chris Now, it's definitely not one I would have chosen really.

4:24 Chris But I was just in that mood for just clicking play and seeing what happened.

4:26 Chris And I got to say, I definitely don't feel like it was a wasted time, I definitely enjoyed it.

4:32 Chris I probably won't rush back and watch it.

4:34 Chris I won't highly recommend it to many people.

4:37 Chris But a few people, I could recommend it to.

4:39 Lee Yeah.

4:40 Lee If I remember correctly, I went and saw this at the cinema and then went back three days later with Ben and Adam.

4:46 Chris Oh yeah.

4:46 Lee You need to come and watch this.

4:48 Chris That's it.

4:49 Lee Yeah with the right people a crowd watching this that it would be a lot of fun.

4:53 Lee Yeah.

4:54 Adam It's part it's party horror all the way.

4:58 Chris Definitely, yep.

4:59 Chris They they they got it right, that's what they went for and they they achieved what they set out to do.

5:05 Adam It was oddly refreshing as well because you'd got because you'd got so used to like.

5:12 Adam I will we'll make a horror film of 15 because we want to get teens in.

5:16 Chris Okay.

5:17 Adam And then we went and saw this and it's like, no, there's actual tits.

5:23 Chris Yes.

5:23 Adam It's like skin off.

5:25 Adam Yeah, people are, you know, there's blood everywhere.

5:27 Chris It it was no holds bard.

5:28 Adam Yeah, it's it don't it don't really didn't shit about.

5:32 Adam And it was sort of like, yeah, it was a refreshing sort of watch because it was like, man, this is yeah, this is a horror film, this is a teen horror film.

5:40 Adam You're not meant to be old enough to see this, but you will.

5:44 Chris Yeah, definitely.

5:46 Adam Cuz wasn't cuz I think we saw it in 3D, didn't we? because it was because it was released as Piranha 3D, was it?

5:51 Chris Yeah, it was.

5:52 Adam Oh yeah.

5:52 Chris Okay, I mean interesting I

5:56 Chris Yeah, I didn't realize that, but then I did see the cover said 3D and I was like, okay, yeah.

6:01 Chris I can see that might have even added a bit more to this, this is perhaps quite a good candidate for just ridiculous over the top 3D things.

6:08 Chris I mean the the special effects they're not amazing, you know, the the the 3D the computer generated effects, you know, they're bit silly some of them.

6:16 Chris But it's still, you know, you just don't care, you just like.

6:21 Chris It's just fun craziness.

6:24 Adam They're still they're still a notch up from that sort of blood of Sharknado.

6:30 Chris Yeah, okay, I'm no it could be way worse.

6:33 Chris Yeah.

6:34 Chris Yeah.

6:36 Adam Definitely. Takestand or whatever.

6:38 Lee Yeah.

6:39 Lee Yeah, I just

6:41 Chris So yeah, it's good fun.

6:42 Lee again, it was one of those in the cinema where like the atmosphere was both times, the atmosphere was what everyone was hollering and laughing.

6:55 Chris Yeah, that would that would add to it even more, yeah, definitely.

6:59 Lee Fantastic film.

7:01 Chris Good call.

7:02 Lee don't watch don't watch the follow up.

7:05 Lee Piranha 3 double D.

7:07 Lee Really bad.

7:09 Chris I did see that mentioned, okay.

7:13 Lee Yeah, no, save save yourself the hour and a half and watch watch the witch again because yeah, you won't enjoy it, it's not good.

7:22 Lee Excellent, well done.

7:24 Lee Adam, I know you've obviously been under the weather recently.

7:29 Lee But have you managed to squeeze anything in?

7:33 Adam yeah, a couple of couple of fingers up my bum.

7:37 Adam No, I've I've watched.

7:40 Adam I've finally managed to watch cuz this was so galling.

7:43 Adam they finally released the BBC 1984 with Peter Cushing.

7:49 Lee Yes.

7:50 Adam Finally after fucking years of legal wrangles and bullshit and everything else like that.

7:57 Adam Finally enough people have died that they couldn't hold it back any longer.

8:03 Adam It's like like when Stanley Kupe died and suddenly it's like, do you want a orange, we've got three copies of it here.

8:09 Adam It's like

8:10 Adam Because I don't think they were that they were as concerned as Stanley about keeping it out of the public gaze.

8:15 Adam So, but yeah, so finally that got released.

8:18 Adam I and I'm going to call I'm going to call him out.

8:24 Adam I ordered it on Amazon, Amazon managed to lose the fucking parcel.

8:28 Adam And then I'm panicking because they're saying, oh yeah, well you can get your money back.

8:32 Adam And it was like, okay, I'll reorder it.

8:34 Adam And then it said, yeah, available in three to five months.

8:38 Adam And I thought, fuck you, bastards because I know what they're talking, it's limited edition.

8:43 Adam So I thought, right, so that's three to five months followed by couldn't get it anywhere.

8:48 Adam so I went old school.

8:50 Adam And HMV had it, so I.

8:54 Adam Well, Claire very kindly rang up, reserved me a coffee because a copy because I was doing my pieces.

9:01 Adam and

9:03 Adam Yeah, so I got I went and picked it up, but I only managed to watch it the other night, because I've been rough as a box of frogs.

9:12 Adam So.

9:13 Adam You know, like a near two-hour black and white 1954 adapt of 1984 was probably going to be a bit of an half.

9:20 Chris Yeah.

9:21 Adam while while my head was swimming.

9:23 Adam but.

9:24 Adam I mean, it looks fucking incredible.

9:27 Adam For something that's made that long ago.

9:31 Adam The film.

9:32 Adam in because when it went out, it went it was broadcast live.

9:36 Adam And they had filmed inserts as well of like for exterior shots and things basically to give people the opportunity to change their clothes or move to the next set or whatever like that.

9:46 Lee Yeah, yeah.

9:47 Adam and those bits look like you filmed them yesterday.

9:50 Adam They are incredibly.

9:52 Adam And even the sort of the older telerecording of like the studio stuff still looks amazing.

9:59 Adam

10:00 Adam Peter Cushing is, you know, barely shaving.

10:06 Adam

10:07 Adam Donald Pleasance is in it and Donald Pleasance is both a child and yet already bald.

10:13 Adam

10:14 Adam And and interestingly enough, and this is just a weird one out of here, but I know that you'll know who I'm talking about, Lee.

10:20 Adam There was a woman in it and I was like, I bloody know her from something.

10:22 Adam And when I looked it up, she's the woman who she's the char lady who shares.

10:26 Adam Ralph Fiennes's office in Fiennes and Catplay.

10:30 Adam Yeah.

10:30 Lee That's crazy.

10:31 Adam Wow.

10:32 Adam I like the put upon neighbor woman.

10:35 Adam but yeah, and still really good, still really, just still fucking works, you know.

10:43 Adam It's incredible that something that old because I mean obviously when they made it, it the book had only been out sort of six years.

10:51 Adam So, you know, it wasn't it was pretty fresh then, but it's still, yeah.

10:57 Adam Still really holds up and just the idea of what they would like, what I think nowadays is is like it almost works as a nostalgia dream for oppressive regimes.

11:13 Adam Where it's like, oh, we didn't have the internet and we didn't have people and people didn't have phones.

11:19 Adam We could we could still be doing this shit, we could still be rewriting history and claiming that we didn't say that and we did do this and so on and so forth.

11:25 Adam And yeah, but yeah.

11:27 Adam I mean, I recommend the shit out of it.

11:30 Adam And I'm counting it as horror because when they first basically because at the time the BBC used to do stuff live.

11:39 Adam So they broadcast it they broadcast it one Sunday.

11:42 Adam And there were questions in the house.

11:45 Adam There was uproar.

11:47 Adam Yeah, all the newspapers jumped on it the same way they can do nowadays.

11:51 Adam But it was all like, BBC showing filthy torture and how dare they put this on our screens, this is, you know, despicable feel bad stuff just to make people feel terrible and blah, blah, blah.

12:03 Adam and so they weren't going to show it the following week.

12:08 Adam then it turned out the queen really liked it.

12:10 Adam So they were like, oh, okay, yeah, we will redo it then because her majesty has given us the given us the week.

12:16 Adam Cuz I'll tell you what, I favor a Republic, but our own dear queen does seem to have pretty good TV taste.

12:23 Adam but

12:26 Adam Yeah, and so they they redid it and they recorded it.

12:30 Adam Cuz the first one went out live, they didn't record it.

12:34 Adam They just put it on.

12:35 Adam And it was only because they were staging it that they took the opportunity and filmed it and we still got it, which is such a rarity of telly of that age.

12:42 Lee Yeah.

12:43 Adam so, yeah.

12:44 Lee Imagine they're doing something and then we're going to show it again in a week's time, so we've got a completely re-acted thing.

12:51 Lee That's mental to think that that was a thing.

12:53 Adam I mean, yeah, but then I suppose it's just.

12:55 Adam It's at the time it was like theater.

12:58 Lee Yeah.

12:58 Adam You know, it's it's much the same as you sort of do it every night and so on and so on.

13:03 Adam But I mean, yeah, just they really, I think that it was a weird one because it was like, as I say, there was it was obviously a slow news week.

13:10 Adam When, you know, everyone's moaning about what was on the telly on Sunday.

13:15 Adam But yeah, it sort of generated enough press that at the at one point the BBC were like, oh, no, we won't do it again because it's been, yeah.

13:21 Adam But it's also they've added a thing on there which I've never seen before.

13:23 Adam Cuz I used to have it on VHS off of a repeat from like 94.

13:28 Adam And so that went the way of all.

13:30 Adam Flesh years and years ago, that did.

13:33 Adam but.

13:33 Adam at the start of it, they've actually got just the announcer is sitting down and talking.

13:37 Adam But it's so grown up, it's lovely.

13:41 Adam It's really refreshing because it's basically, right, we are presenting the play of 1984.

13:45 Adam It features torture.

13:47 Adam Possibly the most important and and interestingly, they take the themes from it because they're saying one of the most important things with this is the lack of hope.

13:54 Adam That this this leads you with because of you, you know, as the story progresses and so on and so forth.

14:00 Adam And then it's basically, so please make the decision that if you feel that there are members of your household who shouldn't watch this.

14:04 Adam Including yourselves, please, you know, you know, don't don't watch it.

14:09 Chris I'm sure that was shown as silly pandering there.

14:11 Chris Can't you know.

14:13 Adam I I don't I don't know, cuz I mean it just felt right because it was just like, we're going to show we're showing this shit.

14:16 Adam We're not going to not show you this.

14:18 Chris But we're just giving you little heads up.

14:20 Adam Yeah.

14:20 Adam But on your head beat it, if you want to show your kids this and they have nightmares all night, tough tips, cuz you've made that decision.

14:27 Adam Or, you know, if this is going to give you the EBGBs, don't watch it.

14:31 Chris Do you think do you think anyone managed to get any of their kids to to watch it?

14:35 Adam Oh, well, I mean, the interesting thing is and it's one of the my favorite aspects of 1984 is that there is.

14:44 Adam in it, he's got a neighbor who is very for the party and everything else like that.

14:50 Adam And his kids are arseholes.

14:52 Adam They're the most dreadful pair of pricks.

14:55 Adam Because and at the end of it, I mean, spoiler alert for a book that's been out since 1948.

15:00 Adam at the end of it, his own kids denounce him for thought crime.

15:05 Chris Yeah.

15:07 Adam And it's like, and but he's so in the party and so in the mindset that he's like, well, the police don't make mistakes.

15:14 Adam They wouldn't have arrested me for something I didn't do.

15:16 Adam So I must have done it.

15:18 Lee God.

15:19 Adam And it's like this terrifying sort of thing, but again, it's like these kids are monsters because they know they have this power.

15:25 Adam You know, that that much as anyone does, I mean, you know, it's sort of, yeah.

15:32 Adam And it's a real sort of even now, I mean, I think it just is.

15:39 Adam Just brilliantly done and conceived.

15:42 Adam And yeah.

15:43 Lee Cool, I have I have got it, so I will be watching it.

15:45 Lee So hopefully, I'll give you my because I don't know the story at all, so I'm going to be watching it a fresh, yeah.

15:52 Adam Yeah.

15:53 Lee Hopefully this week, so.

15:54 Chris You you've lived through some of it, but from that, you don't know any of it.

15:58 Adam Well, the weird thing is when you watch it, you will just go, oh, right, that's where that comes from because it's so many things, room 101, Big Brother, news speak, thought crime, thought police, they're all from 1984.

16:05 Adam And you're like, at the end of it, it feels like, you know, like it's like when you go through Shakespeare and you realize how many phrases were originated in Shakespeare plays.

16:11 Adam It's that same sort of thing where you're like, oh, right, okay, so this is where that comes from, this is where that comes from and so on.

16:15 Adam So.

16:16 Lee Excellent.

16:17 Lee Cool, I'm looking forward to it.

16:19 Adam Yeah, go for it.

16:20 Adam It's and Peter Cushing's just chef's kiss.

16:23 Adam I mean, he's just great in it.

16:24 Adam the only other thing that I've watched is obviously Inside Number Nine is back.

16:28 Lee Yes, it is.

16:29 Lee And the second episode is horror all over.

16:33 Adam Wow.

16:33 Adam I literally I've literally just watched that before we started.

16:39 Adam And I am buzzing my tits off because that was so fucking good.

16:44 Adam

16:44 Adam I enjoyed the first one, it was a bit more sort of low key.

16:47 Adam And certainly like more moving, the one with Mark Gatiss.

16:50 Lee Yeah.

16:51 Adam in there as well because you kind of expect, oh, well if Mark's going to be in it.

16:54 Adam They'll probably really ramp up the horror.

16:56 Adam So I think it was quite nice that they were like, that was their that was their twist almost that it was like, no, we're not doing a, you know, we're not doing a grand sort of thing just because he's here.

17:03 Adam

17:04 Adam But yeah, no, that's that second episode, Mr. King was, oh.

17:08 Lee Yeah.

17:09 Adam Yeah.

17:09 Adam That's right up there with the best of them.

17:11 Lee Absolutely, yeah, totally blown away by that.

17:14 Lee

17:17 Lee So for me, I I yeah, I also watched obviously Inside Number Nine.

17:21 Lee and then last night we have a guest here, previous guest of the show on Maggie is here at the moment.

17:29 Adam Hey.

17:30 Lee And following the last time she was here and came on the podcast and I showed her Dr. Terris House of Horrors.

17:37 Lee I said, what would you like to watch this evening and she said I would like more of that, please.

17:41 Lee so we sat down and watched the house that dripped blood.

17:45 Adam Hey.

17:46 Lee And unsurprisingly enough, yeah, she absolutely loved it because it's such a good film.

17:52 Adam Oh, it's good.

17:53 Adam Yeah.

17:54 Lee Oh.

17:55 Adam That's that's one we've got to do coming up at some point.

17:58 Lee Yeah, absolutely, it's it's so much fun.

18:01 Lee So yeah, so I'm really glad cuz otherwise I wouldn't have watched anything and I've I've currently now left them downstairs this evening to watch the Wolf of Snow Hollow.

18:08 Chris Oh yeah, yeah.

18:09 Lee So I'll I'll report back on how that one goes down.

18:13 Lee

18:14 Lee Yes, so I think that's everything caught up.

18:18 Lee So again, we will reiterate, obviously, normally we do older films, but we are doing something that is very current.

18:25 Lee So if you haven't seen The Northman yet.

18:27 Chris Yeah.

18:29 Lee Obviously, we are about to spoil it.

18:32 Lee

18:33 Lee But I think because I I I was sitting with Jennifer discussing it this afternoon.

18:38 Lee

18:39 Lee And I sort of talked her through the story of it and said, you know, this film isn't about the story, it's the journey.

18:45 Lee So so don't feel if you haven't seen it, that it's necessarily going to spoil it to hit.

18:53 Lee I mean, Adam, you said, was it you who said that this was the the old story.

18:59 Lee Which Shakespeare adapted into Hamlet, was it you who talked about that?

19:03 Adam Yes, yeah.

19:04 Chris Yeah, you did, yeah.

19:06 Lee So it so it's a well-trodden story, but.

19:10 Lee Wow.

19:11 Lee So Chris, as this was your choice, take it away, give us your thoughts on this.

19:16 Chris Well, I I'd just like to say what a great choice.

19:19 Lee On.

19:20 Chris I don't know if I'm blowing blowing my trumpet.

19:22 Chris But you know.

19:22 Adam Self applause is no applause.

19:26 Chris But yeah, so I mean it was it was quite a step up in action.

19:32 Chris I was trying to think of all of the films that Robert Eggers has done.

19:36 Chris So obviously we've got the Witch, The Lighthouse.

19:39 Chris I don't know we've seen both of those.

19:44 Chris We haven't seen any others, I don't think, have we?

19:46 Adam That's that's it.

19:47 Chris That's it.

19:48 Chris That is pretty much he's done he's done some shorts, I think.

19:51 Adam I think, yeah, he's done some short films.

19:53 Adam In fact.

19:55 Adam Oh, balls, I meant to look that up.

19:58 Adam I'm sure he's done a version of Hansel and Gretel.

20:02 Lee Oh.

20:03 Chris Yeah, yeah.

20:04 Chris I've I've got that on IMDB, yeah, yeah, it was that was back in 2007.

20:07 Chris That was a very short.

20:08 Adam Yeah.

20:09 Adam Because it came up on, I can't remember what website it was on, it came up on there and then along it's probably still open as a tab on my phone.

20:15 Adam Along with like 22,000 other things including, you know, Dr. Google.

20:23 Adam Answers off of pointless and so on and so forth.

20:27 Adam So yeah, it's lost in a very long stream.

20:32 Chris But yeah, so so this was a real step up in in action, really.

20:36 Chris It's still still.

20:37 Chris It certainly had the, you know, what is it kind of lonely element to it, you know, a lot of his journey was.

20:45 Chris he, you know.

20:46 Chris he's his old experience early on.

20:47 Chris And then sort of everything happens to him, you're not exactly feeling at one with the world and.

20:52 Chris you know, a piece.

20:54 Chris It's it's quite a harrowing experience that most of his life.

20:57 Chris and that's why I think you know, don't want to jump to the end and trying to think of not.

21:02 Chris fully spoiling it.

21:03 Chris But it it definitely does go on a journey and you are with him and you do appreciate when he gets glimmers of of hope and good.

21:12 Chris And the sort of the questioning aspect of what.

21:14 Chris what choice do I now make and obviously that that that gets intertwined with the the which.

21:22 Chris And and his prophecy from his childhood as well.

21:27 Chris And so it's yeah, it's fascinating to sort of think even if they are essentially supernatural.

21:32 Chris You know, you can still have experiences like that in life where you're like.

21:34 Chris how do I sort of integrate this information into my my sort of next choices?

21:39 Chris So I yeah, and I mean, played out fantastically.

21:42 Chris and some of the scenes were were amazing.

21:45 Chris And it did like you said, it was.

21:50 Chris Macbeth.

21:51 Adam Hamlet.

21:52 Chris Sorry, Hamlet, yeah, I tend to mix it up, yeah.

21:55 Chris Hamlet is essentially the story of Hamlet.

21:57 Chris it did remind me of Conan at points.

22:00 Chris Is that?

22:02 Adam Yeah, I think I think a lot of it is.

22:03 Adam There's.

22:04 Chris Is that the mythology?

22:06 Adam I think there's sort of archetypes, there's certain archetypes, I can't remember the name of the book, but there's.

22:12 Adam For example, I think I sorry, I can't remember the author of the book, but there's the the thing the hero's journey.

22:21 Adam Which people commonly apply to Star Wars.

22:27 Chris Yes, yeah.

22:28 Adam Which is the thing of you have like, a young, naive prints.

22:34 Adam You have an older advisor and stuff like that.

22:38 Adam So I think that they're and people sort of pick and choose from those myths as they go.

22:42 Adam but I think that this is quite I mean, basically it's quite an old.

22:50 Adam Folk tale that is kind of it possibly predates it's.

22:55 Adam it's place in Viking or like folklore.

23:01 Adam It they think it might actually be, they think it might actually be like.

23:08 Adam Originally,

23:13 Adam So, where are we?

23:15 Adam Yeah.

23:15 Adam So they think it might be.

23:17 Lee his notes.

23:17 Adam Just just just checking my notes, which have, I'll tell you what, this is the one thing though, is.

23:24 Adam I could have fucking researched this for the next 10 years of my life.

23:30 Adam Robert Eggers is just he doesn't mess around so good at.

23:37 Adam That you know, of cuz I mean that was the thing with the witch.

23:42 Adam And the witch was kind of like a lot of it was stuff I knew or stuff that I was aware of.

23:48 Adam Cuz when I first saw the witch, I was just so blown away by the fact that it was like, finally.

23:52 Adam This is like this is this is witch mythology.

23:57 Adam It's how.

23:57 Chris Yeah.

23:57 Adam You know, it's not, you know, it's not sort of the ramped up version of it.

24:02 Adam It's not the sort of Hollywood version of it, this is all stuff that is.

24:05 Chris It's authentic as you can make that film that aims to be entertainment as well.

24:09 Adam Yeah.

24:10 Adam And from that time period, from the the right sort of time period and the right sort of attitudes that people have.

24:16 Chris I'd be tempted to say he did that in The Lighthouse as well because if I said to you, I'm I'm going to make a film about two guys in a lighthouse, you're like, how much you're going to get out of that?

24:24 Chris And yet he's made, you know, essentially an epic tale of of loneliness in the lighthouse.

24:29 Chris And adding to it sort of the myths of the sea and so on.

24:32 Chris Yeah.

24:33 Adam Well, I mean, this this was something that when when I was sort of like going through it.

24:38 Adam Because so

24:42 Adam One of the things that sort of came up was about animal symbolism, cuz he uses it a lot in all his films.

24:49 Chris Yeah.

24:49 Adam Yeah.

24:50 Chris Okay.

24:50 Adam

24:51 Adam And for example, this and but this is the thing that I found fascinating is when you look at it.

24:55 Adam So, particularly with birds.

25:01 Adam

25:01 Adam Obviously like in the witch you've got the transformations of the witch and stuff like that.

25:05 Adam But with but it's all birds are very key in all three of Robert Eggers's movies.

25:09 Chris Yeah.

25:10 Adam

25:11 Adam And but the thing is, Robert Eggers puts them in the context of the mood and the attitude of the film and when it was based.

25:24 Adam

25:25 Adam So I mean, obviously with with the lighthouse, you had the seagulls carrying the souls of dead sailors, which is like maritime law.

25:33 Adam Which would be correct to.

25:35 Adam people on a lighthouse, you know, it's so so it's work from that point of view as well as the echoing the myth of Prometheus.

25:38 Adam At the at the climax at the end of that.

25:40 Adam

25:41 Adam Obviously, I don't want to spoil the lighthouse for people because we we've covered the witch.

25:44 Adam So we kind of a bit more spoiler already, so.

25:47 Chris It's funny, yeah, in my head, we'd covered the house, probably because you watched it and talked about it.

25:49 Chris I watched it and talked about it.

25:51 Adam Yeah.

25:53 Adam But in but in in the witch, you have Ravens, like a Raven features.

25:59 Adam But in that time period and in that setting.

26:02 Adam They would be associated with sort of satanic evil, well, witches, the occult, that kind of thing.

26:13 Adam So they are in the context of the witch when the Raven appears, it's only ill omened.

26:17 Adam It's only, you know, it's it only spells disaster for the family.

26:21 Adam Whereas in this, in Norse law, Ravens are really like sort of powerful signs.

26:28 Adam Yeah, they're they're really highly esteemed animals.

26:29 Adam Because Odin himself has two Ravens that he sends throughout his realm to report back to him of news.

26:34 Chris I was say, in a in a way, the Viking Norse it's like their whole society is kind of dark in a way, isn't it?

26:40 Chris It's like that's all except for whereas in the witch.

26:42 Chris They were meant to be like pure and good and godly and then the darkness is the Ravens.

26:48 Chris It's but whereas they're almost the opposite like, you know, Vikings are almost all kind of a satanic type of.

26:53 Adam It's it's the power that comes with it, it's the power that comes with it, but they but in Norse mythology, they were they describe it as it's totemic and basically it's the idea of spirit animals or of animals that sort of define their characteristics.

27:13 Adam and Ravens were considered protectors and prophets.

27:18 Adam So in this, they help Amleth in his like when they free him from his bonds and stuff like that.

27:22 Adam And so.

27:24 Adam Weirdly enough, in the context of the witch, the Raven will turn up and it's like.

27:27 Adam Right, that's Harbinger of things going wrong.

27:31 Adam Whereas in this, the Ravens are helping him and, you know, helping the protagonist of the story.

27:37 Adam and and even down to the fact that I I don't know if it's it's not particularly clear, but his father's name is War Raven.

27:49 Lee Yeah.

27:50 Adam Like that's their family name, his War Raven.

27:52 Adam Obviously, he loses that as he loses his family position and family name and has to go undercover for one of a better expression, you know.

28:03 Adam

28:05 Adam And and similarly similarly like with the wolf spirit that is passed to him through the ritual.

28:13 Adam When he's young just before his father's murder, when he goes when him and his father go through the ritual.

28:17 Adam With Willem Dafoe.

28:20 Chris Yes, yeah.

28:21 Adam And that's where he defines him as the wolf spirit is what runs through their family.

28:28 Adam But again.

28:29 Adam It's just again, it's like Robert Eggers is just like it's just such a lovely sort of thing where it's like, you know, the the definitions change according to what he's working with.

28:35 Lee Yeah.

28:36 Adam You know.

28:37 Adam And

28:39 Adam Also, and this was very late in the day that I found this out, you know, there's a there's obviously the sequence where they raid the village quite near the start.

28:49 Adam When you when you first see Amleth grown up.

28:51 Lee When when he turns into our friend, Lord Owl.

28:54 Adam Yes, yes.

28:55 Lee Did you know how much he looked like, Lord Owl?

28:57 Adam He does, he does, yeah.

28:59 Lee When we're down at Jim, we can see that from Yeah.

29:03 Adam But that that bit where they're on the Viking long like the the Viking long boats.

29:11 Adam they were built as per Viking long boats.

29:19 Lee Wow.

29:21 Adam Robert Eggers was like, oh, no, we need to have the.

29:25 Adam So he had historical advisors in.

29:27 Adam And you know, just to make sure that everything was correct, so they were built exactly as a Viking long boat would be built.

29:35 Adam And there's nothing extra.

29:36 Adam There's no super glue in there, they're not held together with like, I don't know, like fucking tungsten or something like that.

29:42 Adam They are literally they're they're historically accurate long boats.

29:47 Chris All the correct materials.

29:48 Adam Yeah.

29:49 Adam And but then that's the thing is that they said that the point is it goes to prove the.

29:54 Adam The know-how of the ship building of

30:01 Chris Yeah, they're already pretty advanced.

30:03 Adam Yeah.

30:04 Adam They they worked.

30:06 Adam And and they cut through the water like they said that wasn't like, you know, that's not an effect, that's not them being pulled.

30:12 Adam by like by a motorboat or anything else like that.

30:15 Adam That they literally got a crew of these guys including Alexander Skarsgard and they are genuinely rowing those boats.

30:23 Lee Wow.

30:25 Adam Yeah.

30:25 Adam It's.

30:26 Adam Incredible.

30:27 Adam It's all it's like ritual reenactment.

30:32 Chris Yeah.

30:33 Adam You know.

30:34 Adam If anything, if anything, if Sapphire and still turn up, Robert Eggers.

30:37 Adam Shit yourself.

30:38 Lee Yeah.

30:40 Adam You've obviously done.

30:41 Adam You've done it too well.

30:42 Adam You know.

30:43 Adam And time is going to break through.

30:48 Lee Yeah, it's got to be set like, like you said, the brutality of this as well is is very much how you would imagine.

30:58 Lee As you said that that village raid scene when he's gone off and he's joined that game.

31:01 Lee That was really difficult to watch.

31:03 Lee Like that was.

31:04 Lee Really extreme.

31:05 Lee But in the I think that's the thing, I think it's important to bring that context into it because that was what life was like at the time, you can't you can't shy away from it if you've gone this this far down the rabbit hole of.

31:14 Lee We're going to make this look and feel genuine.

31:18 Lee You've got to do it.

31:20 Lee But my God, it was harsh.

31:22 Chris And what I really liked about that was that we don't see him as just a hero, is that whole time was you're both kind of good and bad because, you know, it's you've got to survive and.

31:31 Chris Yeah, essentially everyone will do that to each other if they're in position of power.

31:36 Lee Yeah.

31:36 Adam Yeah, and this is the thing is that I think that they were very, by sort of looking into it, they were very keen that they weren't going to they wanted to dismiss like romantic notions of the Vikings.

31:44 Adam Without taking away from, you know, cultural.

31:49 Adam you know, sort of cultural elements and the fact, you know, they weren't they weren't purely just brutal.

31:55 Lee Yeah.

31:55 Lee They weren't sort of demonized, despite the fact what they were doing was horrific.

31:58 Lee As you say, Chris, there was very much that if we don't do this to them, someone's going to do this to us.

32:02 Chris Cuz because who was it who was actually controlling them? I don't know if they they'd been bought as kind of mercenaries at that point because someone was in charge saying, I just want the strong ones and then they burnt down the house.

32:08 Chris But who was that who he looked like the the armor they were wearing was the same as the village that they were attacking and it was different to the Vikings.

32:14 Chris So it's.

32:15 Chris The Vikings had been been used.

32:17 Adam The the village the village that they attacked is in Ruse, which is now basically Belarus.

32:26 Chris Okay.

32:27 Adam but that was so essentially it was like, Eastern Slavic, so it's kind of a bit Russia, Ukraine, you know, sort of Eastern Europe is that that so that's where.

32:37 Adam That's where that village is meant to be.

32:42 Adam And.

32:42 Adam But.

32:43 Adam But this was the thing is that they were, you know, it was literally you they had, well, like any culture, they had art, they had, you know, religion, they had, but they also were, you know, that was what it was.

32:54 Adam It was the power of who whoever is the most powerful wins.

32:59 Adam You're in a such a brutal sort of period of time.

33:03 Adam That it's because as far as I can tell, Amleth is meant to have been taken in.

33:08 Adam by the group that he's with.

33:10 Adam So it's almost like.

33:11 Adam he's been adopted.

33:12 Adam and.

33:13 Adam But obviously not making it clear quite who he is.

33:17 Adam

33:18 Adam But I also think that it's the there's the interesting there's the interesting element that they.

33:26 Adam like you say, they're only taking the strong and then it just becomes like pillage, rape, murder.

33:32 Adam the barn full of burning children because they're no use.

33:39 Adam And you you sort of see this savage, what's what's the word I'm looking for.

33:46 Adam It's like a business mind essentially.

33:50 Adam You know, it's a very utilitarian methodical sort of a thing where it's like.

33:54 Adam No, no, we we just.

33:55 Adam You know, prosaic sort of thing where it's like.

33:57 Adam No, we come, we get this, we do that.

34:00 Adam They're no use.

34:01 Adam Kill them.

34:02 Adam You know what I mean? it's sort of like it's just utterly without any sort of.

34:07 Adam It's utterly without any mercy, but you know, curious why almost without any malice.

34:11 Chris Yeah.

34:12 Lee Because it was that.

34:13 Lee That was what I was trying to say, when I said they're not demonized, they are because what they're doing is horrific.

34:17 Lee But yeah, as you say, it's that it's not it's not a spiteful thing, it's a we need stuff.

34:23 Lee So we're going to go and take what we need and what we don't need, we're going to destroy because if we don't, it's going to come back to buy us.

34:31 Lee And I you kind of get that impression as well with the with the children and stuff.

34:37 Lee It is, it's that if we don't kill them, they will grow up to hunt us down at a later date, which is exactly what Amleth is doing, so you do get that kind of feeling of it's like a self-preservation thing.

34:47 Lee If we don't wipe them out, they will be the next lot who will come after us when we're too old to protect ourselves.

34:55 Lee It's.

34:56 Lee Yeah, as you say, it's kind of.

34:58 Lee I know, it just felt.

34:59 Lee Distanced.

35:00 Adam Yeah.

35:01 Lee But but I think it doesn't the good thing is it doesn't shy away from that, you see Amleth walking around that village and he is monstrous.

35:10 Lee I mean.

35:10 Lee That's the.

35:11 Adam Yeah.

35:11 Adam The sequence just beforehand where they're going through the Berserker ritual.

35:14 Lee Yeah.

35:14 Adam And they're sort of adopting their the sort of rage of the creatures and everything else like that.

35:18 Adam Cuz they yeah.

35:19 Chris They're wearing the wolf skins.

35:20 Adam They wear the wolf like the the pelts or the bear pelts and stuff.

35:23 Adam Cuz I cuz I didn't realize this.

35:24 Adam But Berserker is derived from the words bear and shirt.

35:27 Chris Oh.

35:27 Lee Oh.

35:28 Adam Oh.

35:29 Adam So it's basically yeah, wearing wearing the bear's skin or wearing a bear shirt.

35:33 Chris And take on the soul of the bear.

35:35 Adam Yeah.

35:35 Adam Exactly cuz that's how they sort of interpreted what was what they were.

35:39 Adam But there's.

35:40 Chris Yeah.

35:40 Lee I would bet.

35:41 Adam I would bet.

35:41 Adam I would bet.

35:42 Adam I would bet.

35:43 Adam Probably not.

35:43 Adam So.

35:43 Adam You know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.

35:45 Adam I mean.

35:46 Adam Do you need percussion.

35:47 Adam When you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.

35:51 Adam Probably not.

35:52 Adam You've probably got all your aggression out there.

35:54 Lee Yeah, yeah.

35:55 Adam Certainly not lost.

35:55 Adam The chuck off your eye hat, you know.

35:58 Lee And your minstrels are definitely a target as well.

35:59 Lee You know, I mean you couldn't have positions to take with you because they've probably been a bit busy.

36:02 Adam Yeah, yeah.

36:03 Adam Don't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.

36:12 Adam on aka Sison who now goes by Seon.

36:16 Adam So he's obviously gone Elvis on us.

36:18 Chris Yeah.

36:19 Adam Madonna.

36:21 Adam who also wrote Dancer in the Dark.

36:25 Adam Which was that film I was talking about.

36:27 Adam And also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.

36:36 Adam It's.

36:37 Adam very recent and basically.

36:40 Adam Two people give birth to a human lamb.

36:44 Adam

36:44 Adam I've I've not seen it myself.

36:47 Adam And there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of you can you can go too A24 sometimes.

36:53 Adam I think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.

36:57 Adam Yeah.

36:58 Adam I don't know.

36:58 Adam I mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it, but I haven't sorted it out.

37:04 Adam but he's also.

37:06 Adam he's also an author.

37:07 Adam And has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.

37:14 Adam and again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers.

37:20 Adam He's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.

37:32 Adam So he really brought him in to.

37:33 Adam Ensure that everything was right and correct, but also he was like, like when the ending.

37:38 Adam Like he's like, I'll so I want him to come back.

37:39 Adam And he's going to fight him in a volcano.

37:41 Adam Is that really shit and Hollywood?

37:43 Adam Or does that still.

37:44 Adam Does that feel right for this?

37:46 Adam and.

37:47 Adam and obviously got the go ahead.

37:50 Adam Apparently.

37:51 Adam The there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.

37:54 Lee Yeah.

37:55 Adam Yeah.

37:56 Adam And that translates to gates of hell.

37:58 Lee Yeah.

37:59 Adam So yeah.

38:00 Adam I must confess.

38:02 Adam I was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.

38:08 Adam Cuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.

38:14 Adam

38:14 Adam But the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gainsworth.

38:20 Adam Fuck me.

38:21 Adam It's a fucking amazing soundtrack.

38:23 Lee Yes.

38:24 Adam and again.

38:25 Adam They like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.

38:37 Adam one thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure.

38:43 Adam Just because of no historical sort of nothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.

38:50 Adam They don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music.

38:56 Lee Okay.

38:57 Adam which is something obviously they've they have drums, it I mean they've got fucking electronics in there.

39:03 Adam It's not exactly, you know, it's not.

39:06 Adam They're not sort of really going for that, but yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.

39:12 Adam to keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.

39:18 Adam Oh, right.

39:19 Adam So.

39:19 Adam So.

39:19 Adam You know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.

39:22 Adam I mean, do you need percussion when you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.

39:27 Adam Probably not.

39:28 Adam You've probably got all your aggression out there.

39:30 Lee Yeah, yeah.

39:31 Adam Certainly not lost.

39:32 Adam The chuck off your eye hat, you know.

39:34 Lee And your minstrels are definitely a target as well.

39:36 Lee You know, I mean you couldn't have to take with you.

39:38 Lee Cuz they've probably been a bit busy.

39:39 Adam Yeah.

39:40 Adam Yeah, don't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.

39:46 Adam on, aka Sison.

39:47 Adam So he now goes by Seon, so he's obviously gone Elvis on us.

39:50 Lee Yeah.

39:51 Adam Madonna.

39:53 Adam who also wrote Dancer in the Dark.

39:57 Adam That film I was talking about.

39:59 Adam And also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.

40:06 Adam It's.

40:07 Adam very recent and basically two people give birth to a human lamb.

40:12 Adam

40:13 Adam I've I've not seen it myself.

40:15 Adam And there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of.

40:20 Adam You can you can go to A24 sometimes.

40:25 Adam So I think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.

40:28 Adam Yeah.

40:28 Adam I don't know, I mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it.

40:32 Adam But I haven't.

40:33 Adam sorted it out.

40:35 Adam but he's also, he's also an author.

40:39 Adam And has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.

40:45 Adam and again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers, he's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.

40:59 Adam So he really brought him in to ensure that everything was right and correct.

41:02 Adam But also, he was like.

41:04 Adam Like when the ending.

41:07 Adam Like he's like, I'll so I want him to come back and he's going to fight him in a volcano.

41:10 Adam Is that really shit and Hollywood?

41:12 Adam Or does that still does that feel right for this?

41:15 Adam and and obviously got the go ahead.

41:18 Adam Apparently.

41:19 Adam The there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.

41:24 Adam and that translates to gates of hell.

41:26 Adam So yeah.

41:28 Adam I must confess.

41:30 Adam I was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.

41:36 Adam Cuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.

41:42 Adam

41:43 Adam But the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gamesbrough, fuck me.

41:48 Adam It's a fucking amazing soundtrack.

41:51 Lee and again.

41:52 Adam They like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.

42:01 Adam one thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure, just because of no historical.

42:09 Adam Sort of.

42:10 Adam Nothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.

42:14 Adam They don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music, okay.

42:21 Adam which is something obviously they've they have drums.

42:23 Adam I mean they've got fucking electronics in there.

42:26 Adam It's not exactly, you know, it's not they're not sort of really going for that.

42:29 Adam But yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.

42:35 Adam to keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.

42:39 Adam Oh, right.

42:39 Adam So.

42:39 Adam So, you know, there's no yeah, so it looks like they didn't.

42:42 Adam I mean, do you need percussion when you're wearing a fucking wolf's head and burning villages to the ground.

42:47 Adam Probably not.

42:48 Adam You've probably got all your aggression out there.

42:50 Lee Yeah, yeah.

42:51 Adam Certainly not lost.

42:52 Adam The chuck off your eye hat, you know.

42:54 Lee And your minstrels are definitely a target as well.

42:56 Lee You know, I mean you couldn't have to take with you.

42:58 Lee Cuz they've probably been a bit busy.

42:59 Adam Yeah.

43:00 Adam Yeah, don't shoot me, you know. And again, Robert Eggers wrote this with I'm going to say this wrong.

43:06 Adam on, aka Sison.

43:07 Adam So he now goes by Seon, so he's obviously gone Elvis on us.

43:10 Lee Yeah.

43:11 Adam Madonna.

43:13 Adam who also wrote Dancer in the Dark.

43:17 Adam That film I was talking about.

43:19 Adam And also the A24 film Lamb, I don't know if you guys have seen this.

43:26 Adam It's.

43:27 Adam very recent and basically two people give birth to a human lamb.

43:32 Adam

43:33 Adam I've I've not seen it myself.

43:35 Adam And there are a few people, I think there are a few people who have seen it and I think they were all a bit sort of.

43:40 Adam You can you can go to A24 sometimes.

43:45 Adam So I think I think it's just a bit too sort of like overtly odd.

43:48 Adam Yeah.

43:48 Adam I don't know, I mean, it might it might be great, I would I would still reserve judgment till I've seen it.

43:52 Adam But I haven't.

43:53 Adam sorted it out.

43:55 Adam but he's also, he's also an author.

43:59 Adam And has written from the mouth of the whale and the blue fox and stuff.

44:05 Adam and again, this is part of that thing that I really love with Robert Eggers, he's apparently he just kept going, he was talking to him and it was like, look, I've brought you in because I want to do this, but I have no, you know, I have no connection to Icelandic law or to Scandinavia or anything else like that.

44:19 Adam So he really brought him in to ensure that everything was right and correct.

44:22 Adam But also, he was like.

44:24 Adam Like when the ending.

44:27 Adam Like he's like, I'll so I want him to come back and he's going to fight him in a volcano.

44:30 Adam Is that really shit and Hollywood?

44:32 Adam Or does that still does that feel right for this?

44:35 Adam and and obviously got the go ahead.

44:38 Adam Apparently.

44:39 Adam The there's the genuine Icelandic volcano of Mount Heckler.

44:44 Adam and that translates to gates of hell.

44:46 Adam So yeah.

44:48 Adam I must confess.

44:50 Adam I was originally a bit upset when I saw that Mark Colven wasn't doing the music.

44:56 Adam Cuz I really loved The Witch and I loved the stuff for the lighthouse as well.

45:02 Adam

45:03 Adam But the two they've got on here, Robin Caroline and Sebastian Gamesbrough, fuck me.

45:08 Adam It's a fucking amazing soundtrack.

45:11 Lee and again.

45:12 Adam They like we're speaking to an ethnomusicologist who to check that that to sort of like try and get the right kind of instruments that would be usable.

45:21 Adam one thing that I found that was really fascinating though, is that apparently they're not sure, just because of no historical.

45:28 Adam Sort of.

45:29 Adam Nothing historical has archaeologically has been shown.

45:34 Adam They don't think that drums were particularly important in to Viking music, okay.

45:41 Adam which is something obviously they've they have drums.

45:43 Adam I mean they've got fucking electronics in there.

45:46 Adam It's not exactly, you know, it's not they're not sort of really going for that.

45:49 Adam But yeah, apparently so that sort of thing of like, you know, where it's like the.

45:55 Adam to keep the stroke of the that's probably bollocks.

45:59 Adam Oh, right.

45:59 Adam