The Ninth Gate
01:38:11
About
Special guest Manny joins us for this look at a late 90s Satanic Thriller, Roman Polanski’s “The Ninth Gate”. A film in which Frank Langella proves that most Satanic Societies are all “big cloaks, no knickers” when it comes to a punch up; Johnny Depp reveals his fragile tits and comic timing too late to save his performance; and we learn that rare book sellers are drowning in pussy. Along the way we discuss “Prisoners of the Ghostland”, “Outcast”, “Arcane”, the 2005 remake of “The Fog”, “Let Us Prey”, “Last Night In Soho” and “Kevin Turvey: The Man Behind The Green Door”. Watch (or re-watch) to avoid spoilers, and join us. *TRIGGER WARNING: We discuss the tragic life and unforgivable crimes of Roman Polanski - so murder, rape and the holocaust are mentioned - there is a warning prior to this portion of the episode with a time to skip forward to avoid it if you so wish.* APOLOGIES FOR ANY SOUND QUALITY ISSUES - THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED REMOTELY, IN A BURNING CASTLE WHILST 2 PEOPLE HUMPED OUTSIDE.
Transcript
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LeeJust before this evening's episode started, I just wanted to give everyone a bit of a warning.
LeeWe are covering the Roman Polensky directed film The Ninth Gate this evening.
Leewe do go into not too much detail, but we do cover Roman Polensky's crimes and also his tragic childhood.
LeeWe know obviously we are a light-hearted podcast, and therefore this material might not be suitable for all of our listeners.
LeeSo anyone who doesn't wish to hear this,
Leewe have marked the tape.
LeeSo it begins at 37 minutes and 20 seconds and ends at 48 minutes and 35 seconds.
LeeSo feel free to jump past that
Leeand you will avoid all of the unpleasantness and you can just hear us discussing the movie.
Leethanks very much and hope you enjoy the episode.
LeeGood night.
LeeGood evening and welcome to Horror.
LeeI'm Lee.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamHi, I'm Adam.
LeeAnd we have a surprise guest with us this evening, the often mentioned but always busy until this point, Manny.
LeeEvening Manny.
MannyEvening, thank you for having me. Very, very excited to be here.
ChrisIt's great for you to be here.
MannyYes.
ChrisI'm, I'm looking forward to hearing all about this film.
LeeManny may have teased us that he may not have the same thoughts about this film as me, but we'll we'll get on to that when we reach it.
Leebefore we get ahead of ourselves, Manny, just very briefly, tell the listeners a bit about yourself and your interest in movies.
MannySure, so, I'm one of those, punters who went to university and studied film, but actually before that, I got, film studies introduced to my school so I could do it at A-level.
LeeNice.
ChrisNice.
MannyWhich was, which was really cool. we actually had to do it over Zoom, which seemed odds thinking that I was doing that 15, no, sorry, I'm older than that, 17 years ago.
Mannybut, but that was really cool and, yeah, so I really enjoyed doing it at A-level and then went to, university, was hoping that it was going to be, or I was told actually, I was lied to really, that it was a practical course.
Mannyand it was really just English literature but film.
MannySo, even though it was incredibly interesting or at least some of it was, got to study some really cool stuff on J-horror, which I really liked. and some core parts of European cinema that I really enjoyed, it wasn't really what I was looking for.
Mannybut anyway, it didn't stop my love of film.
Mannyand yeah, horror's always been a thing close to my heart, in a non-weird way.
MannyI think my earliest film that I was terrified of was the BFG cartoon.
Mannyand I distinctly remember being in my mom's front room and the, the living room door was shut and it was on the TV and I was too young to know how to turn it off, but I was also too young to open the door, couldn't do it.
MannySo I was just stuck in a room with child-eating giants, not knowing how to get out.
MannyAnd somehow that made me like horror.
MannySo, yeah, did, I've actually, I remember writing and directing a horror when I was about 17.
MannyIt was appalling, so I don't really want to talk about it.
MannyBut, I've always,
LeeCan we can we cover it on the show?
ChrisThat would be great.
MannyI would have to find it somewhere, but I think it's about two minutes long and not good.
MannySo,
AdamWe we've covered less.
LeeYeah, we're still talking about Ant-Man Dick Hole after about a year, so,
AdamOnly mentioned it to someone in the week.
Mannybut yeah, so, love horror films, met Lee through work, got to know about his love of horror films and this podcast. listened to it, listen to a few times, some of shout-outs, which is always been nice.
MannyI think most of them were not, like, they, they were negatively done, but I mean, it's because I had a negative opinion, so it makes sense.
Mannybut, yeah, happy to be here and yeah, excited to, to chat about the film.
LeeExcellent.
ChrisExcellent.
Leeyeah, I did wonder about this film when I suggested it, I was like, I really like it, I know it's got its flaws, but there's something very romantic about it.
LeeBut we'll come to that in due course.
LeeSo, before we get into that, we will do our, what we've been watching.
LeeSo we will start as always with Chris.
ChrisNo, you might assume cheating, but I'm going to prove I'm not, right?
ChrisSo I've watched, I've watched the rest of Arcane because the first three episodes were released and I was like, that's it, you've, you've got me started on this.
ChrisThis is, this is way better than I was expecting it might be.
ChrisThen they've released the, the final six, I think we maybe missed a few.
ChrisAnyway, so when we came back to it, all of the season one was on there.
ChrisAnd it just got better and better for me, I was just so impressed with what they've done with this.
ChrisI'm just going to do a brief recap of what it's about.
ChrisSo it's based on League of Legends, the computer game and it is set in the utopian Piltover and the oppressed underground of Zone.
ChrisThe story follows the origins of two iconic champions and the power that will tear them apart.
ChrisAnd so essentially, the main story is two sisters and what happens to them.
ChrisBut what they did so well in this is how the, the experiences of each sister growing up has affected them, and one of them particularly essentially becomes a paranoid schizophrenic.
ChrisAnd the way they show this with the animation and the style is just so powerful.
Chrisit's one of the best portrayals of somebody turning from who is a sweet girl living in a difficult situation, you know, essentially street urchins, quite a violent city, and yeah, just wanting to do good and ending up becoming complete psycho.
Chrisand just yeah, her thoughts and what she remembers.
ChrisAnd then as you, as you go down this path, you interpret every upcoming, or every new situation with that filter.
ChrisSo somebody trying to do good you still interpret as being bad and being evil towards you.
ChrisSo you just constantly send you down this darker path and yeah, it's just so well done.
Chrisit like it looks fantastic and yeah, for me the story is just so much deeper than I was expecting.
Chrisand then the other thing I was really concerned about is how are they going to, incorporate the ultimate abilities of these characters, which are just over the top in the game, as you can imagine.
ChrisHow can they possibly bring this into what is a fantastic story?
ChrisAnd again, they I was, I was thinking, how are they going to do this sort of coming towards the end and they just did it in such a good way.
ChrisIt's still over the top massively, but it, it's done with a cliffhanger and it seems to fit.
ChrisSo, yeah, just like hats off to the, the writers and the directors.
ChrisNow, I don't, I did briefly look them up, I don't recognize them, they haven't done a lot, as far as I can tell.
ChrisDid notice though some of the actors, they've got Hailee Steinfeld is one of the voices, I saw her in Bumblebee and I think a few other things.
ChrisThey also got Kevin Alejandro, Jason Spisak, Harry Lloyd, who I did recognize from Game of Thrones. Daenerys' brother.
ChrisI don't recognize any of the others.
ChrisBut yeah, just like it really blew me away.
ChrisSo I highly recommend it potentially to anyone, certainly if you like computer games, and if you love adult animation.
ChrisYeah, really fantastic.
AdamAnd you were a fan of the you played the game and we're a fan of the game as well, so,
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamFans shouldn't worry.
ChrisAbsolutely, yeah, they seem to have got this balance perfectly.
Chrisand, and yeah, and Shelley really enjoyed it as well.
Chrisso people who don't, have never heard of the game should enjoy it, if you like your serious animation.
Chrisyeah, just a lot to offer.
ChrisSo it'd be great to see what they do, I don't know when season two is planned for, if it's been finished writing, but yeah, I'm certainly looking forward to that.
LeeCool, excellent.
LeeThat sounds like I have to check that out myself.
LeeAdam, what have you been checking out since our last meeting?
AdamI had a weird, moment of, I sort of for some reason over two nights double built Scottish horror.
Adamboth from probably sort of mid, sort of about 2010 sort of time, sort of 2010, 2013.
Adamand, yeah.
AdamSo I watched, well, actually, the one I watched second, I'll tell you first.
AdamI watched a film called Outcast.
AdamWhich has, and basically that's set on a, Scottish council estate, but it, it's kind of a, well, basically there's a a mother and son hiding out and they've clearly got like magical powers and they're using them.
AdamAnd sort of there's two people looking for them, one of which is played by James Nesbitt, and they're using sorcery and arcane sort of ritual magic, to try and locate them.
AdamAnd it has that sort of feel of say something like, I don't know, a bit of sort of Neil Gaiman of, you know, where it's like, it's matter of fact to these people, so they don't explain everything to an outsider or anything else like that.
AdamIt's just like, they know what they're doing.
AdamAnd so,
ChrisLike they they use magic but it's just normal.
AdamIt's to them it's every day.
AdamThey they show you using magic the same way they would show you someone setting up a trap for someone.
AdamDo you know what I mean, it's like in the in the sort of sense of, you know what they're doing.
Adamand, but yeah, that's,
Adamand, Kate Dickey's in that and she is fucking great, the mum from The Witch.
LeeYeah.
Adamwho is in loads and loads of stuff and is now currently one of my contenders for playing the next doctor.
Adam
LeeOkay.
Adambut yeah, she, but I think that's only because I feel she would be Peter Capaldi in, it's that same sort of stern Scottishness from someone.
Adambut, yeah, so, and that that was, pretty good, pretty atmospheric.
Adamthe monster effects not brilliant,
Adambut overall it was one of those things where it was like, it felt, it almost felt like you'd come in towards the end of a series.
Lee-
AdamLike sort of like you'd watch the last two episodes of a four-part mini series or something like that.
AdamIt had that feel that, yeah.
AdamBut, but altogether pretty, pretty enjoyable.
AdamAnd a lot of sort of famous faces in like people you'd recognize from like James Cosmo's in there from Game of Thrones and stuff like that.
Adamone of the actors in it, I hadn't seen in anything before apart from the film that I'd watched the night before, so I accidentally double billed it with this actress for some reason.
Adambut the film I watched the night before was Let Us Prey.
AdamAnd that is similar sort of thing, basically it's set in a police station in, like sort of Scotland, like one of the islands, so it's quite a sort of small, deserted little place.
Adamand, yeah, so it's this, policewoman's first night at the, at this station.
Adamand basically all shit goes down.
Adamone of the things is that they bring in, Liam Cunningham, again another Game of Thrones, dabos.
LeeYeah.
ChrisThat's tonight.
AdamYeah, Dabos and his wooden fingers.
AdamSo also, why has no one thought can he play Sean Connery in something?
LeeYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamBut, but I digress.
AdamAnd, but yeah, and that's got, Pollyanna McIntosh is the main, actress in that.
AdamAnd basically, yeah, so Dabos turns up, he's probably the devil, or he's possibly death.
AdamAnd it sort of, the best way, even though I've not seen it, it feels like it might be a bit like the prophecy of like some badass turns up in a long coat and actually they're sort of the devil or whatever.
AdamAnd, but yeah, so he goes, he ends up in the police station and basically exposes everyone's there's sort of guilt of a crime or something awful that they've done.
AdamBut it's, the best way I can describe it, because I think I preferred Let Us Prey more than I did Outcast.
Adambut I enjoyed it because it has that Luther effect.
AdamYou know, where it's like, this has gone fucking ludicrous now, but I'm still in.
AdamOkay.
AdamBut seriously, that it's sort of like it's not just things like guilt like, you know, oh, someone, like killed someone when like by accident or whatever like that.
AdamA couple of the guilty people, it's like, it's full-blown serial murder and stuff like that.
AdamAnd you're like, and you're like, wow, okay.
AdamBut, but yeah, just for its sheer sort of like just fucking bizareness and it kind of had that felt like assault on Precinct 13, even though,
Adamor even more like The Thing or something like that, where it's like this isolated police station and they all start getting at each other because of what's going to be exposed by this guy who apparently knows everyone's dark secrets.
Adambut yeah.
AdamI mean, both of them, both of them definitely, definitely worth a look, they're not necessarily sort of repeat viewers or anything else like that.
AdamAnd like I say, for sheer sort of like just, yeah, I want to be entertained for the next hour and a half, definitely go with, Let Us Prey.
Adamit's oh, and it's Prey as in predation like p r e y not a y.
AdamSorry.
LeeCool.
LeeExcellent, I might have to put that on my own list actually.
AdamBoth I would, I would definitely say, I think you'd enjoy both, definitely, sir.
LeeExcellent, cool.
LeeRight, Manny, have you seen anything recently that you'd like to recommend or tell people to steer well clear of?
Mannyyeah, a couple.
Mannyso not massively that, that recently, but over the last few weeks.
Mannyso I went to see, I think I told you this, I went to see The Last Night in Soho, Last Night in Soho, sorry, but the premiere of it at the BFI, which was really cool.
LeeOh, wow.
Chris
MannySo, oh, no, I mean, like, you just paid for tickets.
MannyIt's like, but,
Mannyit was one of the Gala nights, so, what's his name was there?
AdamEdgar Wright.
MannyEdgar Wright, thank you.
Mannywas there and was doing questions and stuff, so that was cool.
Mannybut I loved that, I didn't find it scary, and I know that it's meant to like it's his turn at horror, or, or real horror as opposed to comedy horror.
MannyBut, but then saying that, I do have a pretty high threshold, so I feel like I try and judge it by whether my, fiance would find it scary and she definitely would have.
MannySo, therefore, it is scary, but I don't think it would be to any of us.
Mannybut it was brilliant.
Mannyand mesmerizing and the performances were great, love the music and it looked fantastic.
MannySo that was awesome.
ChrisYeah.
MannyI did finally watch the Wolf of Snow Hollow, on a flight recently.
Mannyand that was brilliant.
Mannyreally loved it.
MannyI think it was the first time I've ever used the, the word irreverent correctly.
Mannybut it was a very irreverent film.
Mannybut yeah, I thought that was brilliant, I really, really enjoyed it.
MannyReally funny, really like, not twisty turny, but, it, it was just really, it was really well written, really well acted, I like the actors in it and, and that was good.
Mannyand then recently, although I've not finished it, but I've seen it a million times, watching Sleepy Hollow.
MannyWhich I'll, come in and I've actually got some references or or not references, sorry, I, I will be talking about that later when I talk about the film that we watched because I think that there is some, similarities.
MannyBut one's positive and one's not.
MannySo we'll, we'll get to that though.
Manny
LeeCool.
MannyBut, the only film that I've watched that I would not recommend, and it's only, it's probably one of the only, one of less than five films that I've started watching and couldn't finish.
Mannybut it seemed to be everything that I would want in a film.
MannyIt's Prisoners of Ghostland.
Mannywith Nic Cage.
LeeOh, I got about 20 minutes in and blew it right out.
MannyOh, thank you.
MannySo it wasn't just me.
MannyYeah, like, I it's like, Nick Cage blowing off testicles, Westerns, Samurai, ghosts, whatever, all in a film, like, that sounds incredible.
MannyNo, it's just really awful.
ChrisWhat could go wrong, but somehow.
Mannyyeah, like, I'd watch him in anything, but I I couldn't watch him in that.
MannySo that's only one I would not recommend, even as like a, a goof, I would not recommend it because it was, it was actually quite painful to watch.
LeeYeah.
AdamI was going to say, I think there's a a distinct feeling, you know the difference between genuinely like cracked comedians and people who are trying to do surreal.
LeeYeah.
MannyYeah.
AdamIt's, there is a certain thing with a certain breed of film at the moment where it's, you feel they've got that, it's that same effect.
AdamWhere it's like, I wouldn't be wacky if we got Nicholas Cage to fight Samurai in a vampire Western in Dorset with where he's dressed as a sheep at the start of it and just because they know, right, well, that's ticked all the sort of we're crazy boxes.
AdamAnd, does not necessarily make a good film.
MannyYeah.
AdamAnd, and actually just one, but if you're really excited about Samurai and Nicholas Cage, you'd probably make a fucking belter.
MannyYeah, yeah, definitely, yeah.
MannyI was going to say, actually, one, one other comparison I did see a few weeks ago and this was actually the film I thought we were doing tonight.
Mannybut, I think there was a, a bless Lee, I think you forgot.
MannySo I was,
LeeYeah, I,
LeeSo what happened was, I'll put it in my phone and then my phone died, so I had to get a new phone and for some reason it's moved half of my calendar stuff over and not the rest.
LeeSo, anybody who I've said I'll do stuff with who doesn't hear from me, please let me know, because my calendar's just shit the bed.
LeeSo it's, it's not that I'm ignoring you, I just don't know what's supposed to be going on.
ChrisIs that the new my dog ate my homework.
MannySo it was, it was Malignant that I'd because, originally, I think you guys, I don't know if you actually watched it or not, but we, originally we were supposed to be doing martyrs, then Lee said he couldn't watch it because it was about torture.
MannyI'd already, rented it at this point and I'd forgotten how awful it is, as in, amazing, but awful, so I did rewatch it and then immediately regretted it.
Mannythen was trying to find another film to watch and I sent saw Malignant and loved it.
MannyBut, caveated by it's mental.
MannyAnd just as you were saying there, Adam, about if someone was like actually genuinely wanted to make the film, that's what Malignant is, what Prisoners of Ghostland would be if someone seemed actually serious about it.
MannyBecause in terms of throwing lots of ideas about, Malignant has all of the ideas, and but they just went full hog, so it made it good.
MannyYeah.
Mannyso yeah, if, if, if you haven't seen it, definitely see Malignant.
MannyIt was brilliant, but shit but brilliant.
LeeSee, now I've definitely got to watch it to find out what that's all about.
MannyYeah.
MannyI don't want to say too much more because it I don't want to ruin it, but it has one of the best sequences, later on the film that was just mind-blowing.
MannyIt was brilliant.
LeeExcellent, I'll give that a go.
LeeSo mine are, I'll try and keep it quick.
Leeso I watched The Fog remake after we watched The Fog recently.
Leeand, my notes say The Fog remake equals dog shit.
LeeSo there you go, that's pretty much all I.
ChrisBut you got through the whole film.
LeeI did.
LeeBut.
AdamThank you, thank you for confirming a prejudice.
AdamI've always assumed it was, I've never seen it, but I assumed it.
AdamAnd thank you.
LeeWhat it does, sorry, this is probably a little bit late in the show now, but spoilers and swearing, so let's get that out of the way.
Leebecause they're fucking coming with this film.
LeeWe, what it does is it takes, so what I love about The Fog is how little you see of what's in the fog, like although the iconic shots you see are few and far between, they look incredible and they're really well laid out.
LeeThis kind of does that 90s thing of let's just throw loads of gore at it unnecessarily and make half of the film about the characters in the fog where you follow them back in the day and you see what they're doing now and they have to go to the graveyard and oh and it's just so fucking tedious.
Lee
LeeYeah, and it just, it took that idea that, you know, you just read a few paragraphs and you knew who they were and it was enough to make a character of them.
LeeYeah, and just like showed you them shoe shopping and what were their favorite meals were and like it's just so, oh, God, it's terrible.
LeeAnd the soundtrack was awful as well.
Lee
Leeso yeah, so I did that and hated myself for it, but, you know, I've I've seen it now, so that's fine.
Leethen also same as Manny, this week, I finally caught up with Last Night in Soho.
Lee
LeeAnd I, I felt the same, I was worried about seeing it, I'm going to be honest.
Leeit's set in 1960s London, possibly my work, my least favorite decade.
LeeSo, I was like, this is going to be not good.
LeeAnd he said, this is my love letter to Giallo, which I hate.
LeeSo I was like, this is going to be all kinds.
LeeBut he said Edgar Wright.
LeeSo I was like, well, how's it going to play?
Leeyeah, and I absolutely loved it.
LeeIt was fantastic.
LeeDiana Rigg's last film, obviously.
LeeAnd she is just exceptional throughout, I thought.
ChrisThat's that's meaningful for you.
LeeYeah.
LeeYeah, exactly.
LeeAnd like,
AdamI didn't know she's in here.
AdamWow.
LeeYeah, nor did I until we started and I was like, I'm sure that's Diana Rigg and I had to get the phone out and check and I was like, oh, yeah, it is.
AdamShe wasn't, she's not dressed up like in, theater of blood, is she?
LeeNo.
AdamIt was just, I'm sure that's Diana Rigg, you know, she's just got the big perm and the sideburns.
LeeEven in her sunglasses I'd recognize her, it's definitely her.
Leebut yeah, no, absolutely fantastic film, really enjoyed it.
LeeI think I did mention to you though, Adam, that it I did end up watching it as a double bill with Kevin Turvey, which wasn't what I was planning to do.
Lee
Leebut they did keep playing, Downtown in it and I had to say to Jennifer at the end, oh, I love the use of that song in the film, but that song is forever ruined by Kevin Turvey.
LeeAnd Jennifer said, who's Kevin Turvey?
LeeSo I was like, right, that's it.
LeeUpstairs, we're going to watch the man behind the green door.
LeeYeah.
AdamI've now got, I've now got literal male visions of you going.
AdamDon't you sit there.
AdamYou sit there and we're going to watch Kevin Turvey.
LeeThat was exactly what it was like.
Lee
LeeYeah, and we got to the end and she just went, well, that was weird.
LeeShe went,
LeeYeah, I guess it was, she went, is this was shown on TV?
LeeAre you sure this was I was like, yeah, yeah, it's right up.
LeeShe's like, oh, that's just, wow.
LeeShe said it looks like a, a kid's like college TV project.
LeeI was like, well, yeah, it kind of was.
LeeBut this was back when comedy was a lot more.
AdamBut also that's for what Kevin Turvey is.
LeeWell, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Lee
Leeand the only other thing I saw was because of The Ninth Gate, I don't know why, these two always trigger one another in my mind, The Ghost Story for Christmas, the Treasure of Abott Thomas.
AdamYes.
AdamOh, I I can see that.
AdamYeah.
LeeYeah, I don't know why, I think at some point I made the connection and now if I watch one, the other is immediately triggered.
LeeSo the Treasure of Abbot Thomas, anyone who doesn't know M R James is the story of two guys, one's a college professor and the other one is one of his students and they're good friends.
LeeAnd one of them is allowed into a cathedral to do some looking into the history of the monks who used to live there.
LeeAnd one of them was, burnt at the stake for witchcraft and apparently he claimed in his diary that he had, turned lead into gold and had hidden 300 pieces somewhere.
Leeand he's left clues around the cathedral, so they're running around the cathedral trying to find these clues to find this gold.
LeeAnd unsurprisingly for M R James, when they find the gold, it all goes really tits up really fucking fast.
LeeBut yeah, it's, it's one of my favorite gate stories for Christmas, so if you get a chance, definitely check that out.
ChrisI just want to flick back to Edgar Wright briefly because I just looked him up on IMDB.
ChrisAnd I see that The Running Man is announced, and I know we were considering covering the original, The Running Man.
ChrisAt some point.
AdamI don't know, is it, is it actually a remake of The Running Man?
ChrisWell, I assume so, because when I clicked on it, it says, directed Edgar Wright and writer Stephen King novel and it says the futuristic United States of 2025 when the world has become a dystopia.
ChrisSo, that may be out by the time we cover The Running Man, who knows.
LeeOh, yeah.
AdamI mean,
Adamyeah.
AdamBut not only that, but also The Running Man.
AdamThere's an example of no, the person who made this is genuinely mental.
AdamYeah.
AdamThis, this is, yeah.
AdamIt's, it's Nold Fielding, not Russell Howard.
AdamYeah.
AdamYou know.
AdamThat's it.
AdamIt's, yeah.
AdamAnd not only that, but also it's fucking weird because it feels like that's a it's a bit late.
AdamBecause I literally showed Claire the Running Man just as it was obvious that Trump was not going to win the last election.
AdamSo I was like,
AdamI've got to show you this while this is actually the world.
LeeI think that's fair.
LeeI think that's a fair analogy.
LeeThe thing that makes me laugh is, I in my mind, I just went, oh, they're remaking it again.
LeeFor some reason I was convinced they'd already remade it, because they've remade all the rest of his films, how have they not done this one yet?
LeeBut yeah.
AdamBut are they going to do that thing again that's annoyed me?
AdamAre they just going to mention, they're not going to say Stephen King.
AdamBecause that fucked me off when it was from the writer of it.
AdamNo, no, no, no.
LeeNo.
AdamFrom, from Stephen fucking King, mate.
AdamIf you don't know what that is,
ChrisHe's the king.
AdamFuck off.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo this will be just from, from the, from the writer of sometimes they come back.
MannyYeah.
LeeYeah, that'd be interesting. We shall, we'll keep an eye out for that then, that could be excellent.
Lee
Leeand again, like everything he touches just turns to gold in my opinion.
LeeSo I can't see him totally ballsing it up, but everyone has to fall at some point, so we'll see.
LeeNo pressure, Edgar, but,
MannyIt'll be, it'll be interesting to see how he works with, with a, a project that is not his or, because the same, when you look at what happened with Ant-Man.
Mannyhe left because he wasn't getting his way.
MannySo it'll be interesting to see what it obviously a studio picture.
AdamSo that was the same with Tintin.
AdamWasn't it the same with Tintin as well, wasn't he originally going to be directing that and then, or he was involved some way.
MannyYeah.
MannyAnd then Spielberg did it.
LeeRight, we shall see what happens.
LeeRight, so, on to this evening's main event.
Leeso I suggested, 1999's The Ninth Gate.
LeeThis is,
AdamAll the nines.
LeeAll the nines.
Leeso this film, I, I can't even tell you the first time I saw this, because I don't remember.
LeeBut I do remember it's one of those films that I've, I kind of, I really like it for a, for a very mainstream audience, I thought it was really good and it was well paced and it's,
LeeI, you know what, I just got a romantic image of it, it's people running around Paris looking for occult stuff to raise the devil.
LeeHow can that not be your best weekend ever?
Lee
Leeso that's the way I see it.
LeeI, I'm sure somebody on here may have a different opinion.
LeeWe shall get to that, but in old tradition, let us start with Chris.
ChrisRight, so, I need to, to give a little background, I knew very little about Roman Polansky.
ChrisI don't think I've seen any of his other films.
ChrisI had heard of the controversy.
ChrisNow, I did know that he'd done Rosemary's Baby, which I know we've talked about many times and we will probably still be watching at some point.
LeeDefinitely.
Chrisand I think there was another film that he did.
LeeFearless Vampire Killers I keep wanting to call it.
Chrisyou have mentioned that as well, yeah.
ChrisOkay.
Chrisbut oh, and and the pianist, I always planned to watch it, just have never.
Chrisso I'd heard that film and I'd heard it was a film worth watching, I didn't know it was by him until I checked it recently.
ChrisBut yeah, so, so really, the most that I knew about him was the controversy.
ChrisAnd I didn't even really learn full details of that.
ChrisMostly I've learned of them through some comments by Adam and Lee points and particularly earlier, you know, tonight.
Chrisso, so you got to think I was going to into this and I was trying to watch it as neutrally as possible.
Adam
ChrisBecause it's that whole, you know, at what point do you stop appreciating art because the person who made it has done some terrible things and possibly there'd be a lot of art that we would no longer be appreciating, so it's a hard thing to be sure about where the line is.
Chrisbut I imagine that did put me in a slightly more critical view while watching it as much as I tried not to.
ChrisNow, watching it, I it was entertaining, it was definitely I did like the style and the story seemed to be moving along, I like Johnny Depp generally, and and yeah, it seemed to tickle all the right boxes.
ChrisWhere, where I probably need all of you to fill me in is if I was missing something.
ChrisIt it didn't seem to have anything that grabbed me as really unique, I was sort of thinking when I look back on this, what exactly will I be remembering it for?
ChrisAnd it did seem like, and finally enough I think, Manny, you mentioned Sleepy Hollow and I kept thinking of that because it was like a, you know,
ChrisI'd say a more normal, version of that almost.
ChrisSo still got sexual, demonic elements, but yeah, there's a very different.
AdamAnd, and they're roughly the same sort of time, I think they were within like about five years of each other.
ChrisNo, I think they were the same year.
ChrisI think.
AdamOh, no, it's 1999.
ChrisAnd so yeah, so Johnny Depp, trying to uncover a mystery, you know, as a detective essentially.
ChrisAnd yeah, and so, yeah, like it was good.
ChrisBut I wasn't quite sure what it offered especially over a lot of the other films.
ChrisNow that might be we've watched some crazy films lately, obviously society was the most recent one in my mind.
ChrisThat that could also color viewing of subsequent films.
AdamI I can, can I just say if Roman Polansky directed the society, fuck me, would we not be covering it.
MannyYeah.
ChrisThat that is a very good point.
AdamYeah.
LeeI would like to point out at this point, I said it just before we started recording.
LeeAlthough this is the fourth or fifth time I've seen this film, every time I do forget that it's Roman Polansky.
LeeSo every time,
LeeI put it on and it starts and I go, oh, shit.
LeeYeah, it's Roman Polansky.
LeeSo in my defense, I might have been more should I bring this film to the table, or is this just going to deteriorate pretty badly and should we be watching it at all?
LeeBut as I say,
LeeI honestly, it just escapes my mind every time.
LeeSo it wasn't until it came up and I was like, well, it's the night before.
LeeI can't really now be saying, should we be covering this, because it's,
ChrisBut but like I said,
Chriswe are going to cover Rosemary's Baby, surely, we're not going to not cover that.
ChrisI mean, I've heard so much about that, I at least again, I've not heard what it's about really, but I've just heard positive comments.
AdamI I think I think that's and to be honest, I think that's why to a certain extent why Roman Polansky is still making films.
ChrisBecause he has has made some really great.
AdamThe cachet of like his early sort of period of it.
AdamBasically, as as they are in my notes, but basically between before and after him becoming a fugitive from justice essentially.
Adamthere is a distinct sort of that period of early film.
AdamLike you have got Fearless Vampire Killers, Rosemary's Baby.
AdamCul-de-sac, which is incredible, I don't know if you've ever seen that, but that's just, that's a a very good film.
AdamThe tenant.
AdamWhich is, actually and and Repulsion thinking about it.
AdamBut I've,
Adameven The Tenant.
AdamAnd that is something that I don't know if I could go back to because not only not only is it directed by him, he stars in it.
LeeYeah.
ChrisYeah, that's interesting.
AdamYeah, and that sort of like and again, it's one of those things where you grew up being aware of.
Adamkind of aware of what the story is, but actually when you look into it, there's no argument and yeah, Roman Polansky is a rapist.
AdamSo,
ChrisIs that so so I mean, we try not to go too much into politics, and and other difficult subjects always.
ChrisBut, but what are the basics like, he has essentially done some serious crimes.
AdamHe's not,
AdamWell, I'll I'll go through because I've and actually, here's a good idea.
AdamIf I go through my sort of potted history of Roman Polansky, anyone who doesn't want to get involved with that sort of shit,
Adambecause it is some heavy and awful crap, and not just what he's done, but stuff that's happened to him as well.
Adamyou might want to skip the next couple of minutes or whatever on the podcast.
AdamAnd then we'll just get back round to the actual film itself, because I think that's the point is we.
AdamI think we do that separation.
AdamLet's pretend we are, we're the host of Gardener's World and we're assessing one of Fred West patios.
LeeYeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamSo,
AdamIs it a good patio?
AdamThat's, that's, that's what we're after.
AdamSo regardless of what the man did.
AdamBut, but yeah, so if anyone wants to sort of skip through, but yeah.
Adamso Roman Polansky was, born in Paris in 1933, to Polish Jewish parents.
AdamThey moved, the family moved back to, Krakow in Poland in 1937, not a very good time to be Jewish and move back to Poland.
Adam
Adamso after when the Germans invaded, sparking World War II, the Polansky family, which was, Roman, his mom and dad and his step sister and that, they were moved into the Krakow ghetto with the rest of the city's Jewish population.
AdamWhilst there, as a very young child, he witnessed Nazi atrocities first hand, including summary executions in the street.
AdamAround the age of seven, he saw his father being taken away to Mathausen concentration camp.
Adamhe tried to approach and his dad basically had to show him away so he wouldn't be taken along as well.
Adam
Adamand, shortly after that, his mother and stepsister were taken to Auschwitz and his mother died in Auschwitz.
AdamSo,
Adamhe managed to, get out of, escape the ghetto around the age of 10, moved in with a Roman Catholic family who took him in and basically took him to church, taught him the hymns and everything, so that he could pass as Catholic.
Adam
Adamand then here's a, here's one for, here's one for the fact fans, he was actually denounced as not one of us by the, the local priest when he visited.
AdamWow.
AdamAnd basically, yeah, so nice, nice one father.
AdamYou'd fucking grassed him up.
AdamGrassed up a fucking 10-year-old, saying, well, you know, you really should have been sent to Auschwitz.
AdamYeah, nice one, mate.
Adam
Adamhe, yeah, so he had to move on, so he sort of traveled through rural Poland trying to avoid the occupying German forces.
AdamAfter the war he, he did reunite with his dad in Krakow and began attending the, Words National Film School.
AdamSo he then did his first film Knife in Water.
Adamhe moved to England and directed Repulsion, Cul-de-sac and The Fearless Vampire Killers.
AdamWhich is where he met the actress Sharon Tate.
Adamthey, got together, they were married in 1968.
AdamSo,
AdamPolansky and Tate moved to Hollywood because Paramount were looking for a project for Polansky because he was, you know, he was getting lame for himself, but he'd been as like a European director, so this was going to be his first big Hollywood film.
AdamThat's what.
AdamThat turned into Rosemary's Baby and obviously massive hit, box office smash.
AdamRightly a fucking classic still, you know, what whatever else, as a film, fuck me, that is a fucking amazing film.
Adam
Adambut then in February of '69, they moved into, a 10th, 10,000 feet.
AdamCielo Drive in Los Angeles.
Adamand, they were expecting a baby.
Adamand in August, Polansky went to London where he was count for locations for a film called The Day of the Dolphin.
AdamAnd then shortly after midnight on August the 9th, 1968, Tate, who was eight and a half months pregnant, and the guests at the house, Jay Sebring, Wojchiech, Frykowski, and Abigail Folger, along with Stephen Parent, who was visiting the property's caretaker, were murdered by members of the Manson family.
Adam
Adamit was Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Linda Kasabian and Patricia Krenwinkel.
AdamAnd the trouble is, is that Cielo Drive was previously the house of a guy called Terry Melcher, who was a record producer.
AdamAnd he was one of the people involved with The Beach Boys when Manson was involved with Dennis Wilson.
AdamSo, like Manson was familiar with this guy and familiar with his house.
AdamSo when he sent people out, unfortunately it was like he just directed them to places they knew and it was like, right, go and raise hell.
AdamAnd so, yeah, they unfortunately were renting the house to someone that used to know Manson.
AdamAnd yeah.
Adamand then the following night, they actually then committed the, murders of, Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, but obviously no one is caught for these crimes initially.
AdamSo,
AdamPolansky's brought back, I mean, obviously he had the alibi, he was in Europe, but he was brought back to this, you know, horrifying scene in his own home, his wife and child have been killed.
AdamThe police are questioning him and like with regard to friends, have you got any enemies, because no one was thinking this is just some random fucking thing.
AdamEspecially, especially 60s Hollywood where I'd imagine that the the cocaine was freely flowing, so the paranoia was probably fucking through the roof.
Adamand,
Adamand at this point, understandably.
AdamBut, but Roman Polansky sort of got a lot of pillaring in the press because it was like, oh, well, he's probably connections to drugs and so on and so forth and, you know, he just genuinely was the wrong place, the wrong time.
Adam
AdamNow, obviously, eventually, I think it was, late '69 when, Manson and basically they all got arrested, the family got arrested and the crimes were solved.
AdamBut so that was the best part of sort of nearly two years of not knowing what's actually happened in this case and stuff like that.
AdamSo obviously, he wasn't, directing or or anything like that.
AdamAnd really at this point, he started to have like a really antagonistic relationship with the press.
AdamKind of understandably.
Adambut it's, you know, so.
AdamHe then made, Macbeth in 1970. Now his version of Macbeth is really good. However, there is one horrible sort of report, which is at one point, a production designer described a murder scene as unrealistically gory, and Roman Polansky said, well, you should have seen my house last summer.
LeeYikes.
AdamAnd you're like, fucking hell, you know, this is this is stuff that's going into that.
AdamAnd then he goes on to make what, Chinatown and then The Tenant.
AdamIn 1977, at the age of 43, Roman Polansky met 13-year-old Samantha Geimer and her mother at a party.
AdamTelling them that he was photographing young American girls for French Vogue.
AdamGamer's mother allowed, Polansky to take her out alone and he photographed her topless.
AdamGailey didn't tell her parents and then a few weeks later, Polansky took her out again, plied her with champagne, got her to take a sleeping pill and raped her.
Adamhe then drove her home to her parents, where she told them what had happened, they called the police and Polansky was arrested the next day.
AdamIn his own autobiography, Roman Polansky admits to this, leaving out where the part where the child said no several times to his various sexual acts, claiming it was consensual.
Adamthis would be regarded as statutory rape.
AdamIn her own book, Gailey, now Gamer, states, it was rape in every sense of the word, I said no.
AdamPolansky was arrested and charged with six offenses.
Adamand, initially pleading not guilty on all charges, he then plea bargained to have the other charges dropped if he pled guilty to the one lesser charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor, I statutory rape.
Adam
Adamthe, attorney of pressed for this, Gailey's attorney of pressed for this in the hopes that obviously she wouldn't have to go through a court case and it seemed like the most, you know, of the time, the best way to settle it, I suppose.
Adam
Adambut then the judge that was assigned to the case was Lawrence J Rittenband, a relentless self-publicist who kind of was clearly thinking, well, this is going to make me famous, because I'm doing the big Hollywood Roman Polansky rape trial.
AdamAnd he basically was walking around town telling people, oh, yeah, I'm going to give, I'm going to chop the plea bargain out.
AdamAnd then I'm going to give him 50 years and have him deported.
AdamAnd,
Adamyeah, oddly enough, not really best practice for a judge, so, yeah, so, basically, yeah, so there was a lot of.
AdamI think,
Adamthis is what has confused a lot of the issue is that the case was looking fucked up, but there is no argument about what Roman Polansky did.
AdamOkay.
AdamSo,
AdamI think a lot of people kind of backtrack into that territory of like, oh, well, it wasn't going to get a fair trial and this guy was like fucking around and everything.
AdamIt's like, yeah, but he still fucking did it and you know, whatever, you know, whatever, whatever happens, that's, that's the case.
Adamanyway, so he was on bail, he went to England and then he went to France because French authorities will not deporrt one of their own citizens and he held joint citizenship, like French citizenship.
Adamand to this day, he is officially a fugitive from US justice.
Adamover the ensuing years, more stories have come out suggesting Polansky has had a predilection for young women or girls.
Adamincluding actress, Nastassja Kinski and Charlotte Lewis talking about times when they were young and he was creeping on them.
Adam
AdamYeah.
AdamHollywood alumni have continued to support Polansky.
Adambut these are no.
AdamThey're becoming.
AdamFewer by the year.
AdamJohnny Depp when questioned about appearing in The Ninth Gate claimed no prior knowledge of the case.
AdamWhich, you know,
LeeI've got to say, I so again, I've clearly confused him with somebody else.
LeeBecause I knew he was you know, there were there were the claims against him, for some reason in my mind, it was one of those he flew to a country where it was legal and did it.
LeeAnd then came back and was frowned upon.
LeeLike,
Leein my mind, that was what happened.
LeeI didn't realize at all, right, okay.
LeeBut anyway, let's not,
LeeThis is supposed to be a comedy show, so let's not.
AdamExactly.
LeeLet's not mention Polansky again and tear this film a new ass, because apparently that's what some of you have got planned.
LeeThat's fine.
LeeNo.
AdamI'll I'll be honest, I'm I'm not saying I'll never watch Marters again, but I know that I will have to be in a very particular state of mind and just want the universe to confirm that state of mind.
MannyYeah.
ChrisWe'll gladly watch it with you on that day.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd it will not be a good day.
LeeWe'll we'll,
LeeI was just going to say, I should explain for the.
LeeSo at the time, we just said we were going to cover that and something's changed and we didn't do it.
LeeSo what had happened is,
LeeI discussed it with Manny and he'd said, you know, I want to cover it.
LeeI said, yeah, great, that's fine, we'd put it in the diary and I'd said to Adam we were going to.
LeeAnd he was like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it came to the day before when it arrived.
LeeAnd I looked at the case and I was like, yeah, this isn't what I thought it was and I was like, I think I'm going to be broken if I watch this.
LeeAnd it's going to be.
LeeIt's not going to be a funny podcast, it's going to be the worst episode.
LeeIt's going to be a bit like, I remember I went out with a, I went to a pub once with a friend of mine for lunch and he told me the night before he'd watched a Serbian film.
LeeAnd honestly,
Leeevery 20 minutes or so, he kept like just staring off into space and I go to him, James, are you all right?
LeeAnd he go, is that fucking film, man?
LeeAnd I was like, you know what?
LeeI don't, I don't need to watch a film that does that to me.
LeeI don't think I'm going to gain anything.
LeeAnd that's that's what I had visions of.
LeeI was like, I'm going to fuck myself up for the rest of my life for the sake of recording a podcast that isn't going to be funny.
LeeBecause I'm just going to start crying, I was like, yeah, no, fuck that, I'm not doing it.
LeeSo I apologize for the fact we never covered that.
MannyIt's it's fine.
MannyThe first time I bought it, I was going through a big because I go in and out of horror phases, I bought it, watched it, I love watching film by myself in the dark. That's the way to watch them.
MannyI've got a couple of friends, I will sometimes watch them with because they're fun to watch with, but generally I watch it by myself. Watched it and gave the DVD away because I didn't want to possess it.
Mannyand then, and then I repressed it, to the point where where people were asking me what the worst film was, I wouldn't mention it because I'd repressed that I'd watched it.
Mannyand then yeah, rewatching it, it's it's not scary.
Mannyit's just incredibly dark and sad.
Mannyand and it's yeah.
MannyIt's it's.
MannyYeah, grueling, yes, yeah, yeah.
MannyYou feel like you're the one that's been tortured.
Mannyand I don't want to watch it again.
MannyAnd now it just keeps coming up on Amazon Prime saying,
MannyWatch it again.
MannyI'm like, no.
AdamI'll I'll be honest, I'm I'm not saying I'll never watch Marters again, but I know that I will have to be in a very particular state of mind.
AdamAnd just want the universe to confirm that state of mind. And it will not be a good day.
ChrisWe will gladly watch it with you on that day.
AdamYeah.
MannyI think,
MannyI think that's definitely a no.
LeeI can't see Claire plumping to watch that.
MannyAnytime, really.
LeeI don't. I I again, I think it's just it's.
LeeYeah, it's definitely a Christmas film.
LeeI can't remember from what year it is.
LeeBut it's quite a well.
LeeYeah.
LeeOh, no.
LeeI'm old.
Leebut yeah, and yeah, it's I mean, well, obviously.
Leegetting to it when we, when we when we do.
LeeSo, but, yeah.
LeeIt's definitely a Christmas film.
LeeAnd it, you know.
LeeThere's there's Jesus and everything.
LeeSo yeah, it's it's.
LeeIt's definitely Christmas.
LeeAlso,
Leedead Christmas is what it says on the poster.
