The Ninth Gate

0:00 Lee Just before this evening's episode started, I just wanted to give everyone a bit of a warning.

0:00 Lee We are covering the Roman Polensky directed film The Ninth Gate this evening.

0:00 Lee we do go into not too much detail, but we do cover Roman Polensky's crimes and also his tragic childhood.

0:00 Lee We know obviously we are a light-hearted podcast, and therefore this material might not be suitable for all of our listeners.

0:00 Lee So anyone who doesn't wish to hear this,

0:00 Lee we have marked the tape.

0:00 Lee So it begins at 37 minutes and 20 seconds and ends at 48 minutes and 35 seconds.

0:00 Lee So feel free to jump past that

0:00 Lee and you will avoid all of the unpleasantness and you can just hear us discussing the movie.

0:00 Lee thanks very much and hope you enjoy the episode.

0:00 Lee Good night.

0:01 Lee Good evening and welcome to Horror.

0:01 Lee I'm Lee.

0:01 Chris I'm Chris.

0:01 Adam Hi, I'm Adam.

0:01 Lee And we have a surprise guest with us this evening, the often mentioned but always busy until this point, Manny.

0:01 Lee Evening Manny.

0:01 Manny Evening, thank you for having me. Very, very excited to be here.

0:01 Chris It's great for you to be here.

0:01 Manny Yes.

0:01 Chris I'm, I'm looking forward to hearing all about this film.

0:01 Lee Manny may have teased us that he may not have the same thoughts about this film as me, but we'll we'll get on to that when we reach it.

0:01 Lee before we get ahead of ourselves, Manny, just very briefly, tell the listeners a bit about yourself and your interest in movies.

0:02 Manny Sure, so, I'm one of those, punters who went to university and studied film, but actually before that, I got, film studies introduced to my school so I could do it at A-level.

0:02 Lee Nice.

0:02 Chris Nice.

0:02 Manny Which was, which was really cool. we actually had to do it over Zoom, which seemed odds thinking that I was doing that 15, no, sorry, I'm older than that, 17 years ago.

0:02 Manny but, but that was really cool and, yeah, so I really enjoyed doing it at A-level and then went to, university, was hoping that it was going to be, or I was told actually, I was lied to really, that it was a practical course.

0:02 Manny and it was really just English literature but film.

0:02 Manny So, even though it was incredibly interesting or at least some of it was, got to study some really cool stuff on J-horror, which I really liked. and some core parts of European cinema that I really enjoyed, it wasn't really what I was looking for.

0:03 Manny but anyway, it didn't stop my love of film.

0:03 Manny and yeah, horror's always been a thing close to my heart, in a non-weird way.

0:03 Manny I think my earliest film that I was terrified of was the BFG cartoon.

0:03 Manny and I distinctly remember being in my mom's front room and the, the living room door was shut and it was on the TV and I was too young to know how to turn it off, but I was also too young to open the door, couldn't do it.

0:03 Manny So I was just stuck in a room with child-eating giants, not knowing how to get out.

0:03 Manny And somehow that made me like horror.

0:03 Manny So, yeah, did, I've actually, I remember writing and directing a horror when I was about 17.

0:03 Manny It was appalling, so I don't really want to talk about it.

0:03 Manny But, I've always,

0:03 Lee Can we can we cover it on the show?

0:03 Chris That would be great.

0:03 Manny I would have to find it somewhere, but I think it's about two minutes long and not good.

0:04 Manny So,

0:04 Adam We we've covered less.

0:04 Lee Yeah, we're still talking about Ant-Man Dick Hole after about a year, so,

0:04 Adam Only mentioned it to someone in the week.

0:04 Manny but yeah, so, love horror films, met Lee through work, got to know about his love of horror films and this podcast. listened to it, listen to a few times, some of shout-outs, which is always been nice.

0:04 Manny I think most of them were not, like, they, they were negatively done, but I mean, it's because I had a negative opinion, so it makes sense.

0:04 Manny but, yeah, happy to be here and yeah, excited to, to chat about the film.

0:04 Lee Excellent.

0:04 Chris Excellent.

0:04 Lee yeah, I did wonder about this film when I suggested it, I was like, I really like it, I know it's got its flaws, but there's something very romantic about it.

0:04 Lee But we'll come to that in due course.

0:05 Lee So, before we get into that, we will do our, what we've been watching.

0:05 Lee So we will start as always with Chris.

0:05 Chris No, you might assume cheating, but I'm going to prove I'm not, right?

0:05 Chris So I've watched, I've watched the rest of Arcane because the first three episodes were released and I was like, that's it, you've, you've got me started on this.

0:05 Chris This is, this is way better than I was expecting it might be.

0:05 Chris Then they've released the, the final six, I think we maybe missed a few.

0:05 Chris Anyway, so when we came back to it, all of the season one was on there.

0:05 Chris And it just got better and better for me, I was just so impressed with what they've done with this.

0:05 Chris I'm just going to do a brief recap of what it's about.

0:05 Chris So it's based on League of Legends, the computer game and it is set in the utopian Piltover and the oppressed underground of Zone.

0:05 Chris The story follows the origins of two iconic champions and the power that will tear them apart.

0:05 Chris And so essentially, the main story is two sisters and what happens to them.

0:06 Chris But what they did so well in this is how the, the experiences of each sister growing up has affected them, and one of them particularly essentially becomes a paranoid schizophrenic.

0:06 Chris And the way they show this with the animation and the style is just so powerful.

0:06 Chris it's one of the best portrayals of somebody turning from who is a sweet girl living in a difficult situation, you know, essentially street urchins, quite a violent city, and yeah, just wanting to do good and ending up becoming complete psycho.

0:06 Chris and just yeah, her thoughts and what she remembers.

0:06 Chris And then as you, as you go down this path, you interpret every upcoming, or every new situation with that filter.

0:06 Chris So somebody trying to do good you still interpret as being bad and being evil towards you.

0:07 Chris So you just constantly send you down this darker path and yeah, it's just so well done.

0:07 Chris it like it looks fantastic and yeah, for me the story is just so much deeper than I was expecting.

0:07 Chris and then the other thing I was really concerned about is how are they going to, incorporate the ultimate abilities of these characters, which are just over the top in the game, as you can imagine.

0:07 Chris How can they possibly bring this into what is a fantastic story?

0:07 Chris And again, they I was, I was thinking, how are they going to do this sort of coming towards the end and they just did it in such a good way.

0:07 Chris It's still over the top massively, but it, it's done with a cliffhanger and it seems to fit.

0:07 Chris So, yeah, just like hats off to the, the writers and the directors.

0:07 Chris Now, I don't, I did briefly look them up, I don't recognize them, they haven't done a lot, as far as I can tell.

0:07 Chris Did notice though some of the actors, they've got Hailee Steinfeld is one of the voices, I saw her in Bumblebee and I think a few other things.

0:08 Chris They also got Kevin Alejandro, Jason Spisak, Harry Lloyd, who I did recognize from Game of Thrones. Daenerys' brother.

0:08 Chris I don't recognize any of the others.

0:08 Chris But yeah, just like it really blew me away.

0:08 Chris So I highly recommend it potentially to anyone, certainly if you like computer games, and if you love adult animation.

0:08 Chris Yeah, really fantastic.

0:08 Adam And you were a fan of the you played the game and we're a fan of the game as well, so,

0:08 Chris Yeah, yeah.

0:08 Adam Fans shouldn't worry.

0:08 Chris Absolutely, yeah, they seem to have got this balance perfectly.

0:08 Chris and, and yeah, and Shelley really enjoyed it as well.

0:08 Chris so people who don't, have never heard of the game should enjoy it, if you like your serious animation.

0:08 Chris yeah, just a lot to offer.

0:09 Chris So it'd be great to see what they do, I don't know when season two is planned for, if it's been finished writing, but yeah, I'm certainly looking forward to that.

0:09 Lee Cool, excellent.

0:09 Lee That sounds like I have to check that out myself.

0:09 Lee Adam, what have you been checking out since our last meeting?

0:09 Adam I had a weird, moment of, I sort of for some reason over two nights double built Scottish horror.

0:09 Adam both from probably sort of mid, sort of about 2010 sort of time, sort of 2010, 2013.

0:09 Adam and, yeah.

0:09 Adam So I watched, well, actually, the one I watched second, I'll tell you first.

0:09 Adam I watched a film called Outcast.

0:09 Adam Which has, and basically that's set on a, Scottish council estate, but it, it's kind of a, well, basically there's a a mother and son hiding out and they've clearly got like magical powers and they're using them.

0:10 Adam And sort of there's two people looking for them, one of which is played by James Nesbitt, and they're using sorcery and arcane sort of ritual magic, to try and locate them.

0:10 Adam And it has that sort of feel of say something like, I don't know, a bit of sort of Neil Gaiman of, you know, where it's like, it's matter of fact to these people, so they don't explain everything to an outsider or anything else like that.

0:10 Adam It's just like, they know what they're doing.

0:10 Adam And so,

0:10 Chris Like they they use magic but it's just normal.

0:10 Adam It's to them it's every day.

0:10 Adam They they show you using magic the same way they would show you someone setting up a trap for someone.

0:10 Adam Do you know what I mean, it's like in the in the sort of sense of, you know what they're doing.

0:11 Adam and, but yeah, that's,

0:11 Adam and, Kate Dickey's in that and she is fucking great, the mum from The Witch.

0:11 Lee Yeah.

0:11 Adam who is in loads and loads of stuff and is now currently one of my contenders for playing the next doctor.

0:11 Adam

0:11 Lee Okay.

0:11 Adam but yeah, she, but I think that's only because I feel she would be Peter Capaldi in, it's that same sort of stern Scottishness from someone.

0:11 Adam but, yeah, so, and that that was, pretty good, pretty atmospheric.

0:11 Adam the monster effects not brilliant,

0:11 Adam but overall it was one of those things where it was like, it felt, it almost felt like you'd come in towards the end of a series.

0:11 Lee -

0:11 Adam Like sort of like you'd watch the last two episodes of a four-part mini series or something like that.

0:11 Adam It had that feel that, yeah.

0:11 Adam But, but altogether pretty, pretty enjoyable.

0:12 Adam And a lot of sort of famous faces in like people you'd recognize from like James Cosmo's in there from Game of Thrones and stuff like that.

0:12 Adam one of the actors in it, I hadn't seen in anything before apart from the film that I'd watched the night before, so I accidentally double billed it with this actress for some reason.

0:12 Adam but the film I watched the night before was Let Us Prey.

0:12 Adam And that is similar sort of thing, basically it's set in a police station in, like sort of Scotland, like one of the islands, so it's quite a sort of small, deserted little place.

0:12 Adam and, yeah, so it's this, policewoman's first night at the, at this station.

0:12 Adam and basically all shit goes down.

0:12 Adam one of the things is that they bring in, Liam Cunningham, again another Game of Thrones, dabos.

0:12 Lee Yeah.

0:12 Chris That's tonight.

0:12 Adam Yeah, Dabos and his wooden fingers.

0:12 Adam So also, why has no one thought can he play Sean Connery in something?

0:13 Lee Yeah.

0:13 Adam You know.

0:13 Adam But, but I digress.

0:13 Adam And, but yeah, and that's got, Pollyanna McIntosh is the main, actress in that.

0:13 Adam And basically, yeah, so Dabos turns up, he's probably the devil, or he's possibly death.

0:13 Adam And it sort of, the best way, even though I've not seen it, it feels like it might be a bit like the prophecy of like some badass turns up in a long coat and actually they're sort of the devil or whatever.

0:13 Adam And, but yeah, so he goes, he ends up in the police station and basically exposes everyone's there's sort of guilt of a crime or something awful that they've done.

0:13 Adam But it's, the best way I can describe it, because I think I preferred Let Us Prey more than I did Outcast.

0:13 Adam but I enjoyed it because it has that Luther effect.

0:13 Adam You know, where it's like, this has gone fucking ludicrous now, but I'm still in.

0:14 Adam Okay.

0:14 Adam But seriously, that it's sort of like it's not just things like guilt like, you know, oh, someone, like killed someone when like by accident or whatever like that.

0:14 Adam A couple of the guilty people, it's like, it's full-blown serial murder and stuff like that.

0:14 Adam And you're like, and you're like, wow, okay.

0:14 Adam But, but yeah, just for its sheer sort of like just fucking bizareness and it kind of had that felt like assault on Precinct 13, even though,

0:14 Adam or even more like The Thing or something like that, where it's like this isolated police station and they all start getting at each other because of what's going to be exposed by this guy who apparently knows everyone's dark secrets.

0:14 Adam but yeah.

0:14 Adam I mean, both of them, both of them definitely, definitely worth a look, they're not necessarily sort of repeat viewers or anything else like that.

0:15 Adam And like I say, for sheer sort of like just, yeah, I want to be entertained for the next hour and a half, definitely go with, Let Us Prey.

0:15 Adam it's oh, and it's Prey as in predation like p r e y not a y.

0:15 Adam Sorry.

0:15 Lee Cool.

0:15 Lee Excellent, I might have to put that on my own list actually.

0:15 Adam Both I would, I would definitely say, I think you'd enjoy both, definitely, sir.

0:15 Lee Excellent, cool.

0:15 Lee Right, Manny, have you seen anything recently that you'd like to recommend or tell people to steer well clear of?

0:15 Manny yeah, a couple.

0:15 Manny so not massively that, that recently, but over the last few weeks.

0:15 Manny so I went to see, I think I told you this, I went to see The Last Night in Soho, Last Night in Soho, sorry, but the premiere of it at the BFI, which was really cool.

0:15 Lee Oh, wow.

0:15 Chris

0:15 Manny So, oh, no, I mean, like, you just paid for tickets.

0:15 Manny It's like, but,

0:15 Manny it was one of the Gala nights, so, what's his name was there?

0:16 Adam Edgar Wright.

0:16 Manny Edgar Wright, thank you.

0:16 Manny was there and was doing questions and stuff, so that was cool.

0:16 Manny but I loved that, I didn't find it scary, and I know that it's meant to like it's his turn at horror, or, or real horror as opposed to comedy horror.

0:16 Manny But, but then saying that, I do have a pretty high threshold, so I feel like I try and judge it by whether my, fiance would find it scary and she definitely would have.

0:16 Manny So, therefore, it is scary, but I don't think it would be to any of us.

0:16 Manny but it was brilliant.

0:16 Manny and mesmerizing and the performances were great, love the music and it looked fantastic.

0:16 Manny So that was awesome.

0:16 Chris Yeah.

0:16 Manny I did finally watch the Wolf of Snow Hollow, on a flight recently.

0:16 Manny and that was brilliant.

0:16 Manny really loved it.

0:16 Manny I think it was the first time I've ever used the, the word irreverent correctly.

0:16 Manny but it was a very irreverent film.

0:16 Manny but yeah, I thought that was brilliant, I really, really enjoyed it.

0:17 Manny Really funny, really like, not twisty turny, but, it, it was just really, it was really well written, really well acted, I like the actors in it and, and that was good.

0:17 Manny and then recently, although I've not finished it, but I've seen it a million times, watching Sleepy Hollow.

0:17 Manny Which I'll, come in and I've actually got some references or or not references, sorry, I, I will be talking about that later when I talk about the film that we watched because I think that there is some, similarities.

0:17 Manny But one's positive and one's not.

0:17 Manny So we'll, we'll get to that though.

0:17 Manny

0:17 Lee Cool.

0:17 Manny But, the only film that I've watched that I would not recommend, and it's only, it's probably one of the only, one of less than five films that I've started watching and couldn't finish.

0:17 Manny but it seemed to be everything that I would want in a film.

0:17 Manny It's Prisoners of Ghostland.

0:17 Manny with Nic Cage.

0:18 Lee Oh, I got about 20 minutes in and blew it right out.

0:18 Manny Oh, thank you.

0:18 Manny So it wasn't just me.

0:18 Manny Yeah, like, I it's like, Nick Cage blowing off testicles, Westerns, Samurai, ghosts, whatever, all in a film, like, that sounds incredible.

0:18 Manny No, it's just really awful.

0:18 Chris What could go wrong, but somehow.

0:18 Manny yeah, like, I'd watch him in anything, but I I couldn't watch him in that.

0:18 Manny So that's only one I would not recommend, even as like a, a goof, I would not recommend it because it was, it was actually quite painful to watch.

0:18 Lee Yeah.

0:18 Adam I was going to say, I think there's a a distinct feeling, you know the difference between genuinely like cracked comedians and people who are trying to do surreal.

0:18 Lee Yeah.

0:18 Manny Yeah.

0:18 Adam It's, there is a certain thing with a certain breed of film at the moment where it's, you feel they've got that, it's that same effect.

0:18 Adam Where it's like, I wouldn't be wacky if we got Nicholas Cage to fight Samurai in a vampire Western in Dorset with where he's dressed as a sheep at the start of it and just because they know, right, well, that's ticked all the sort of we're crazy boxes.

0:19 Adam And, does not necessarily make a good film.

0:19 Manny Yeah.

0:19 Adam And, and actually just one, but if you're really excited about Samurai and Nicholas Cage, you'd probably make a fucking belter.

0:19 Manny Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah.

0:19 Manny I was going to say, actually, one, one other comparison I did see a few weeks ago and this was actually the film I thought we were doing tonight.

0:19 Manny but, I think there was a, a bless Lee, I think you forgot.

0:19 Manny So I was,

0:19 Lee Yeah, I,

0:19 Lee So what happened was, I'll put it in my phone and then my phone died, so I had to get a new phone and for some reason it's moved half of my calendar stuff over and not the rest.

0:19 Lee So, anybody who I've said I'll do stuff with who doesn't hear from me, please let me know, because my calendar's just shit the bed.

0:19 Lee So it's, it's not that I'm ignoring you, I just don't know what's supposed to be going on.

0:20 Chris Is that the new my dog ate my homework.

0:20 Manny So it was, it was Malignant that I'd because, originally, I think you guys, I don't know if you actually watched it or not, but we, originally we were supposed to be doing martyrs, then Lee said he couldn't watch it because it was about torture.

0:20 Manny I'd already, rented it at this point and I'd forgotten how awful it is, as in, amazing, but awful, so I did rewatch it and then immediately regretted it.

0:20 Manny then was trying to find another film to watch and I sent saw Malignant and loved it.

0:20 Manny But, caveated by it's mental.

0:20 Manny And just as you were saying there, Adam, about if someone was like actually genuinely wanted to make the film, that's what Malignant is, what Prisoners of Ghostland would be if someone seemed actually serious about it.

0:20 Manny Because in terms of throwing lots of ideas about, Malignant has all of the ideas, and but they just went full hog, so it made it good.

0:21 Manny Yeah.

0:21 Manny so yeah, if, if, if you haven't seen it, definitely see Malignant.

0:21 Manny It was brilliant, but shit but brilliant.

0:21 Lee See, now I've definitely got to watch it to find out what that's all about.

0:21 Manny Yeah.

0:21 Manny I don't want to say too much more because it I don't want to ruin it, but it has one of the best sequences, later on the film that was just mind-blowing.

0:21 Manny It was brilliant.

0:21 Lee Excellent, I'll give that a go.

0:21 Lee So mine are, I'll try and keep it quick.

0:21 Lee so I watched The Fog remake after we watched The Fog recently.

0:21 Lee and, my notes say The Fog remake equals dog shit.

0:21 Lee So there you go, that's pretty much all I.

0:21 Chris But you got through the whole film.

0:21 Lee I did.

0:21 Lee But.

0:21 Adam Thank you, thank you for confirming a prejudice.

0:21 Adam I've always assumed it was, I've never seen it, but I assumed it.

0:21 Adam And thank you.

0:21 Lee What it does, sorry, this is probably a little bit late in the show now, but spoilers and swearing, so let's get that out of the way.

0:22 Lee because they're fucking coming with this film.

0:22 Lee We, what it does is it takes, so what I love about The Fog is how little you see of what's in the fog, like although the iconic shots you see are few and far between, they look incredible and they're really well laid out.

0:22 Lee This kind of does that 90s thing of let's just throw loads of gore at it unnecessarily and make half of the film about the characters in the fog where you follow them back in the day and you see what they're doing now and they have to go to the graveyard and oh and it's just so fucking tedious.

0:22 Lee

0:22 Lee Yeah, and it just, it took that idea that, you know, you just read a few paragraphs and you knew who they were and it was enough to make a character of them.

0:22 Lee Yeah, and just like showed you them shoe shopping and what were their favorite meals were and like it's just so, oh, God, it's terrible.

0:23 Lee And the soundtrack was awful as well.

0:23 Lee

0:23 Lee so yeah, so I did that and hated myself for it, but, you know, I've I've seen it now, so that's fine.

0:23 Lee then also same as Manny, this week, I finally caught up with Last Night in Soho.

0:23 Lee

0:23 Lee And I, I felt the same, I was worried about seeing it, I'm going to be honest.

0:23 Lee it's set in 1960s London, possibly my work, my least favorite decade.

0:23 Lee So, I was like, this is going to be not good.

0:23 Lee And he said, this is my love letter to Giallo, which I hate.

0:23 Lee So I was like, this is going to be all kinds.

0:23 Lee But he said Edgar Wright.

0:23 Lee So I was like, well, how's it going to play?

0:23 Lee yeah, and I absolutely loved it.

0:23 Lee It was fantastic.

0:23 Lee Diana Rigg's last film, obviously.

0:23 Lee And she is just exceptional throughout, I thought.

0:23 Chris That's that's meaningful for you.

0:23 Lee Yeah.

0:23 Lee Yeah, exactly.

0:23 Lee And like,

0:23 Adam I didn't know she's in here.

0:23 Adam Wow.

0:23 Lee Yeah, nor did I until we started and I was like, I'm sure that's Diana Rigg and I had to get the phone out and check and I was like, oh, yeah, it is.

0:24 Adam She wasn't, she's not dressed up like in, theater of blood, is she?

0:24 Lee No.

0:24 Adam It was just, I'm sure that's Diana Rigg, you know, she's just got the big perm and the sideburns.

0:24 Lee Even in her sunglasses I'd recognize her, it's definitely her.

0:24 Lee but yeah, no, absolutely fantastic film, really enjoyed it.

0:24 Lee I think I did mention to you though, Adam, that it I did end up watching it as a double bill with Kevin Turvey, which wasn't what I was planning to do.

0:24 Lee

0:24 Lee but they did keep playing, Downtown in it and I had to say to Jennifer at the end, oh, I love the use of that song in the film, but that song is forever ruined by Kevin Turvey.

0:24 Lee And Jennifer said, who's Kevin Turvey?

0:24 Lee So I was like, right, that's it.

0:24 Lee Upstairs, we're going to watch the man behind the green door.

0:24 Lee Yeah.

0:24 Adam I've now got, I've now got literal male visions of you going.

0:24 Adam Don't you sit there.

0:24 Adam You sit there and we're going to watch Kevin Turvey.

0:25 Lee That was exactly what it was like.

0:25 Lee

0:25 Lee Yeah, and we got to the end and she just went, well, that was weird.

0:25 Lee She went,

0:25 Lee Yeah, I guess it was, she went, is this was shown on TV?

0:25 Lee Are you sure this was I was like, yeah, yeah, it's right up.

0:25 Lee She's like, oh, that's just, wow.

0:25 Lee She said it looks like a, a kid's like college TV project.

0:25 Lee I was like, well, yeah, it kind of was.

0:25 Lee But this was back when comedy was a lot more.

0:25 Adam But also that's for what Kevin Turvey is.

0:25 Lee Well, yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:25 Lee

0:25 Lee and the only other thing I saw was because of The Ninth Gate, I don't know why, these two always trigger one another in my mind, The Ghost Story for Christmas, the Treasure of Abott Thomas.

0:25 Adam Yes.

0:25 Adam Oh, I I can see that.

0:25 Adam Yeah.

0:25 Lee Yeah, I don't know why, I think at some point I made the connection and now if I watch one, the other is immediately triggered.

0:25 Lee So the Treasure of Abbot Thomas, anyone who doesn't know M R James is the story of two guys, one's a college professor and the other one is one of his students and they're good friends.

0:26 Lee And one of them is allowed into a cathedral to do some looking into the history of the monks who used to live there.

0:26 Lee And one of them was, burnt at the stake for witchcraft and apparently he claimed in his diary that he had, turned lead into gold and had hidden 300 pieces somewhere.

0:26 Lee and he's left clues around the cathedral, so they're running around the cathedral trying to find these clues to find this gold.

0:26 Lee And unsurprisingly for M R James, when they find the gold, it all goes really tits up really fucking fast.

0:26 Lee But yeah, it's, it's one of my favorite gate stories for Christmas, so if you get a chance, definitely check that out.

0:26 Chris I just want to flick back to Edgar Wright briefly because I just looked him up on IMDB.

0:26 Chris And I see that The Running Man is announced, and I know we were considering covering the original, The Running Man.

0:27 Chris At some point.

0:27 Adam I don't know, is it, is it actually a remake of The Running Man?

0:27 Chris Well, I assume so, because when I clicked on it, it says, directed Edgar Wright and writer Stephen King novel and it says the futuristic United States of 2025 when the world has become a dystopia.

0:27 Chris So, that may be out by the time we cover The Running Man, who knows.

0:27 Lee Oh, yeah.

0:27 Adam I mean,

0:27 Adam yeah.

0:27 Adam But not only that, but also The Running Man.

0:27 Adam There's an example of no, the person who made this is genuinely mental.

0:27 Adam Yeah.

0:27 Adam This, this is, yeah.

0:27 Adam It's, it's Nold Fielding, not Russell Howard.

0:27 Adam Yeah.

0:27 Adam You know.

0:27 Adam That's it.

0:27 Adam It's, yeah.

0:27 Adam And not only that, but also it's fucking weird because it feels like that's a it's a bit late.

0:28 Adam Because I literally showed Claire the Running Man just as it was obvious that Trump was not going to win the last election.

0:28 Adam So I was like,

0:28 Adam I've got to show you this while this is actually the world.

0:28 Lee I think that's fair.

0:28 Lee I think that's a fair analogy.

0:28 Lee The thing that makes me laugh is, I in my mind, I just went, oh, they're remaking it again.

0:28 Lee For some reason I was convinced they'd already remade it, because they've remade all the rest of his films, how have they not done this one yet?

0:28 Lee But yeah.

0:28 Adam But are they going to do that thing again that's annoyed me?

0:28 Adam Are they just going to mention, they're not going to say Stephen King.

0:28 Adam Because that fucked me off when it was from the writer of it.

0:28 Adam No, no, no, no.

0:28 Lee No.

0:28 Adam From, from Stephen fucking King, mate.

0:28 Adam If you don't know what that is,

0:28 Chris He's the king.

0:28 Adam Fuck off.

0:28 Adam Yeah.

0:28 Adam So this will be just from, from the, from the writer of sometimes they come back.

0:28 Manny Yeah.

0:28 Lee Yeah, that'd be interesting. We shall, we'll keep an eye out for that then, that could be excellent.

0:29 Lee

0:29 Lee and again, like everything he touches just turns to gold in my opinion.

0:29 Lee So I can't see him totally ballsing it up, but everyone has to fall at some point, so we'll see.

0:29 Lee No pressure, Edgar, but,

0:29 Manny It'll be, it'll be interesting to see how he works with, with a, a project that is not his or, because the same, when you look at what happened with Ant-Man.

0:29 Manny he left because he wasn't getting his way.

0:29 Manny So it'll be interesting to see what it obviously a studio picture.

0:29 Adam So that was the same with Tintin.

0:29 Adam Wasn't it the same with Tintin as well, wasn't he originally going to be directing that and then, or he was involved some way.

0:29 Manny Yeah.

0:29 Manny And then Spielberg did it.

0:29 Lee Right, we shall see what happens.

0:29 Lee Right, so, on to this evening's main event.

0:29 Lee so I suggested, 1999's The Ninth Gate.

0:30 Lee This is,

0:30 Adam All the nines.

0:30 Lee All the nines.

0:30 Lee so this film, I, I can't even tell you the first time I saw this, because I don't remember.

0:30 Lee But I do remember it's one of those films that I've, I kind of, I really like it for a, for a very mainstream audience, I thought it was really good and it was well paced and it's,

0:30 Lee I, you know what, I just got a romantic image of it, it's people running around Paris looking for occult stuff to raise the devil.

0:30 Lee How can that not be your best weekend ever?

0:30 Lee

0:30 Lee so that's the way I see it.

0:30 Lee I, I'm sure somebody on here may have a different opinion.

0:30 Lee We shall get to that, but in old tradition, let us start with Chris.

0:30 Chris Right, so, I need to, to give a little background, I knew very little about Roman Polansky.

0:30 Chris I don't think I've seen any of his other films.

0:31 Chris I had heard of the controversy.

0:31 Chris Now, I did know that he'd done Rosemary's Baby, which I know we've talked about many times and we will probably still be watching at some point.

0:31 Lee Definitely.

0:31 Chris and I think there was another film that he did.

0:31 Lee Fearless Vampire Killers I keep wanting to call it.

0:31 Chris you have mentioned that as well, yeah.

0:31 Chris Okay.

0:31 Chris but oh, and and the pianist, I always planned to watch it, just have never.

0:31 Chris so I'd heard that film and I'd heard it was a film worth watching, I didn't know it was by him until I checked it recently.

0:31 Chris But yeah, so, so really, the most that I knew about him was the controversy.

0:31 Chris And I didn't even really learn full details of that.

0:31 Chris Mostly I've learned of them through some comments by Adam and Lee points and particularly earlier, you know, tonight.

0:31 Chris so, so you got to think I was going to into this and I was trying to watch it as neutrally as possible.

0:32 Adam

0:32 Chris Because it's that whole, you know, at what point do you stop appreciating art because the person who made it has done some terrible things and possibly there'd be a lot of art that we would no longer be appreciating, so it's a hard thing to be sure about where the line is.

0:32 Chris but I imagine that did put me in a slightly more critical view while watching it as much as I tried not to.

0:32 Chris Now, watching it, I it was entertaining, it was definitely I did like the style and the story seemed to be moving along, I like Johnny Depp generally, and and yeah, it seemed to tickle all the right boxes.

0:32 Chris Where, where I probably need all of you to fill me in is if I was missing something.

0:32 Chris It it didn't seem to have anything that grabbed me as really unique, I was sort of thinking when I look back on this, what exactly will I be remembering it for?

0:33 Chris And it did seem like, and finally enough I think, Manny, you mentioned Sleepy Hollow and I kept thinking of that because it was like a, you know,

0:33 Chris I'd say a more normal, version of that almost.

0:33 Chris So still got sexual, demonic elements, but yeah, there's a very different.

0:33 Adam And, and they're roughly the same sort of time, I think they were within like about five years of each other.

0:33 Chris No, I think they were the same year.

0:33 Chris I think.

0:33 Adam Oh, no, it's 1999.

0:33 Chris And so yeah, so Johnny Depp, trying to uncover a mystery, you know, as a detective essentially.

0:33 Chris And yeah, and so, yeah, like it was good.

0:33 Chris But I wasn't quite sure what it offered especially over a lot of the other films.

0:33 Chris Now that might be we've watched some crazy films lately, obviously society was the most recent one in my mind.

0:34 Chris That that could also color viewing of subsequent films.

0:34 Adam I I can, can I just say if Roman Polansky directed the society, fuck me, would we not be covering it.

0:34 Manny Yeah.

0:34 Chris That that is a very good point.

0:34 Adam Yeah.

0:34 Lee I would like to point out at this point, I said it just before we started recording.

0:34 Lee Although this is the fourth or fifth time I've seen this film, every time I do forget that it's Roman Polansky.

0:34 Lee So every time,

0:34 Lee I put it on and it starts and I go, oh, shit.

0:34 Lee Yeah, it's Roman Polansky.

0:34 Lee So in my defense, I might have been more should I bring this film to the table, or is this just going to deteriorate pretty badly and should we be watching it at all?

0:34 Lee But as I say,

0:34 Lee I honestly, it just escapes my mind every time.

0:34 Lee So it wasn't until it came up and I was like, well, it's the night before.

0:34 Lee I can't really now be saying, should we be covering this, because it's,

0:34 Chris But but like I said,

0:34 Chris we are going to cover Rosemary's Baby, surely, we're not going to not cover that.

0:34 Chris I mean, I've heard so much about that, I at least again, I've not heard what it's about really, but I've just heard positive comments.

0:35 Adam I I think I think that's and to be honest, I think that's why to a certain extent why Roman Polansky is still making films.

0:35 Chris Because he has has made some really great.

0:35 Adam The cachet of like his early sort of period of it.

0:35 Adam Basically, as as they are in my notes, but basically between before and after him becoming a fugitive from justice essentially.

0:35 Adam there is a distinct sort of that period of early film.

0:35 Adam Like you have got Fearless Vampire Killers, Rosemary's Baby.

0:35 Adam Cul-de-sac, which is incredible, I don't know if you've ever seen that, but that's just, that's a a very good film.

0:35 Adam The tenant.

0:35 Adam Which is, actually and and Repulsion thinking about it.

0:35 Adam But I've,

0:36 Adam even The Tenant.

0:36 Adam And that is something that I don't know if I could go back to because not only not only is it directed by him, he stars in it.

0:36 Lee Yeah.

0:36 Chris Yeah, that's interesting.

0:36 Adam Yeah, and that sort of like and again, it's one of those things where you grew up being aware of.

0:36 Adam kind of aware of what the story is, but actually when you look into it, there's no argument and yeah, Roman Polansky is a rapist.

0:36 Adam So,

0:36 Chris Is that so so I mean, we try not to go too much into politics, and and other difficult subjects always.

0:36 Chris But, but what are the basics like, he has essentially done some serious crimes.

0:36 Adam He's not,

0:36 Adam Well, I'll I'll go through because I've and actually, here's a good idea.

0:36 Adam If I go through my sort of potted history of Roman Polansky, anyone who doesn't want to get involved with that sort of shit,

0:37 Adam because it is some heavy and awful crap, and not just what he's done, but stuff that's happened to him as well.

0:37 Adam you might want to skip the next couple of minutes or whatever on the podcast.

0:37 Adam And then we'll just get back round to the actual film itself, because I think that's the point is we.

0:37 Adam I think we do that separation.

0:37 Adam Let's pretend we are, we're the host of Gardener's World and we're assessing one of Fred West patios.

0:37 Lee Yeah.

0:37 Adam Yeah.

0:37 Adam So,

0:37 Adam Is it a good patio?

0:37 Adam That's, that's, that's what we're after.

0:37 Adam So regardless of what the man did.

0:37 Adam But, but yeah, so if anyone wants to sort of skip through, but yeah.

0:37 Adam so Roman Polansky was, born in Paris in 1933, to Polish Jewish parents.

0:37 Adam They moved, the family moved back to, Krakow in Poland in 1937, not a very good time to be Jewish and move back to Poland.

0:38 Adam

0:38 Adam so after when the Germans invaded, sparking World War II, the Polansky family, which was, Roman, his mom and dad and his step sister and that, they were moved into the Krakow ghetto with the rest of the city's Jewish population.

0:38 Adam Whilst there, as a very young child, he witnessed Nazi atrocities first hand, including summary executions in the street.

0:38 Adam Around the age of seven, he saw his father being taken away to Mathausen concentration camp.

0:38 Adam he tried to approach and his dad basically had to show him away so he wouldn't be taken along as well.

0:38 Adam

0:38 Adam and, shortly after that, his mother and stepsister were taken to Auschwitz and his mother died in Auschwitz.

0:38 Adam So,

0:38 Adam he managed to, get out of, escape the ghetto around the age of 10, moved in with a Roman Catholic family who took him in and basically took him to church, taught him the hymns and everything, so that he could pass as Catholic.

0:39 Adam

0:39 Adam and then here's a, here's one for, here's one for the fact fans, he was actually denounced as not one of us by the, the local priest when he visited.

0:39 Adam Wow.

0:39 Adam And basically, yeah, so nice, nice one father.

0:39 Adam You'd fucking grassed him up.

0:39 Adam Grassed up a fucking 10-year-old, saying, well, you know, you really should have been sent to Auschwitz.

0:39 Adam Yeah, nice one, mate.

0:39 Adam

0:39 Adam he, yeah, so he had to move on, so he sort of traveled through rural Poland trying to avoid the occupying German forces.

0:39 Adam After the war he, he did reunite with his dad in Krakow and began attending the, Words National Film School.

0:39 Adam So he then did his first film Knife in Water.

0:39 Adam he moved to England and directed Repulsion, Cul-de-sac and The Fearless Vampire Killers.

0:40 Adam Which is where he met the actress Sharon Tate.

0:40 Adam they, got together, they were married in 1968.

0:40 Adam So,

0:40 Adam Polansky and Tate moved to Hollywood because Paramount were looking for a project for Polansky because he was, you know, he was getting lame for himself, but he'd been as like a European director, so this was going to be his first big Hollywood film.

0:40 Adam That's what.

0:40 Adam That turned into Rosemary's Baby and obviously massive hit, box office smash.

0:40 Adam Rightly a fucking classic still, you know, what whatever else, as a film, fuck me, that is a fucking amazing film.

0:40 Adam

0:40 Adam but then in February of '69, they moved into, a 10th, 10,000 feet.

0:40 Adam Cielo Drive in Los Angeles.

0:40 Adam and, they were expecting a baby.

0:40 Adam and in August, Polansky went to London where he was count for locations for a film called The Day of the Dolphin.

0:41 Adam And then shortly after midnight on August the 9th, 1968, Tate, who was eight and a half months pregnant, and the guests at the house, Jay Sebring, Wojchiech, Frykowski, and Abigail Folger, along with Stephen Parent, who was visiting the property's caretaker, were murdered by members of the Manson family.

0:41 Adam

0:41 Adam it was Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Linda Kasabian and Patricia Krenwinkel.

0:41 Adam And the trouble is, is that Cielo Drive was previously the house of a guy called Terry Melcher, who was a record producer.

0:41 Adam And he was one of the people involved with The Beach Boys when Manson was involved with Dennis Wilson.

0:41 Adam So, like Manson was familiar with this guy and familiar with his house.

0:41 Adam So when he sent people out, unfortunately it was like he just directed them to places they knew and it was like, right, go and raise hell.

0:41 Adam And so, yeah, they unfortunately were renting the house to someone that used to know Manson.

0:42 Adam And yeah.

0:42 Adam and then the following night, they actually then committed the, murders of, Leno and Rosemary LaBianca, but obviously no one is caught for these crimes initially.

0:42 Adam So,

0:42 Adam Polansky's brought back, I mean, obviously he had the alibi, he was in Europe, but he was brought back to this, you know, horrifying scene in his own home, his wife and child have been killed.

0:42 Adam The police are questioning him and like with regard to friends, have you got any enemies, because no one was thinking this is just some random fucking thing.

0:42 Adam Especially, especially 60s Hollywood where I'd imagine that the the cocaine was freely flowing, so the paranoia was probably fucking through the roof.

0:42 Adam and,

0:42 Adam and at this point, understandably.

0:42 Adam But, but Roman Polansky sort of got a lot of pillaring in the press because it was like, oh, well, he's probably connections to drugs and so on and so forth and, you know, he just genuinely was the wrong place, the wrong time.

0:43 Adam

0:43 Adam Now, obviously, eventually, I think it was, late '69 when, Manson and basically they all got arrested, the family got arrested and the crimes were solved.

0:43 Adam But so that was the best part of sort of nearly two years of not knowing what's actually happened in this case and stuff like that.

0:43 Adam So obviously, he wasn't, directing or or anything like that.

0:43 Adam And really at this point, he started to have like a really antagonistic relationship with the press.

0:43 Adam Kind of understandably.

0:43 Adam but it's, you know, so.

0:43 Adam He then made, Macbeth in 1970. Now his version of Macbeth is really good. However, there is one horrible sort of report, which is at one point, a production designer described a murder scene as unrealistically gory, and Roman Polansky said, well, you should have seen my house last summer.

0:44 Lee Yikes.

0:44 Adam And you're like, fucking hell, you know, this is this is stuff that's going into that.

0:44 Adam And then he goes on to make what, Chinatown and then The Tenant.

0:44 Adam In 1977, at the age of 43, Roman Polansky met 13-year-old Samantha Geimer and her mother at a party.

0:44 Adam Telling them that he was photographing young American girls for French Vogue.

0:44 Adam Gamer's mother allowed, Polansky to take her out alone and he photographed her topless.

0:44 Adam Gailey didn't tell her parents and then a few weeks later, Polansky took her out again, plied her with champagne, got her to take a sleeping pill and raped her.

0:44 Adam he then drove her home to her parents, where she told them what had happened, they called the police and Polansky was arrested the next day.

0:44 Adam In his own autobiography, Roman Polansky admits to this, leaving out where the part where the child said no several times to his various sexual acts, claiming it was consensual.

0:45 Adam this would be regarded as statutory rape.

0:45 Adam In her own book, Gailey, now Gamer, states, it was rape in every sense of the word, I said no.

0:45 Adam Polansky was arrested and charged with six offenses.

0:45 Adam and, initially pleading not guilty on all charges, he then plea bargained to have the other charges dropped if he pled guilty to the one lesser charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor, I statutory rape.

0:45 Adam

0:45 Adam the, attorney of pressed for this, Gailey's attorney of pressed for this in the hopes that obviously she wouldn't have to go through a court case and it seemed like the most, you know, of the time, the best way to settle it, I suppose.

0:45 Adam

0:46 Adam but then the judge that was assigned to the case was Lawrence J Rittenband, a relentless self-publicist who kind of was clearly thinking, well, this is going to make me famous, because I'm doing the big Hollywood Roman Polansky rape trial.

0:46 Adam And he basically was walking around town telling people, oh, yeah, I'm going to give, I'm going to chop the plea bargain out.

0:46 Adam And then I'm going to give him 50 years and have him deported.

0:46 Adam And,

0:46 Adam yeah, oddly enough, not really best practice for a judge, so, yeah, so, basically, yeah, so there was a lot of.

0:46 Adam I think,

0:46 Adam this is what has confused a lot of the issue is that the case was looking fucked up, but there is no argument about what Roman Polansky did.

0:47 Adam Okay.

0:47 Adam So,

0:47 Adam I think a lot of people kind of backtrack into that territory of like, oh, well, it wasn't going to get a fair trial and this guy was like fucking around and everything.

0:47 Adam It's like, yeah, but he still fucking did it and you know, whatever, you know, whatever, whatever happens, that's, that's the case.

0:47 Adam anyway, so he was on bail, he went to England and then he went to France because French authorities will not deporrt one of their own citizens and he held joint citizenship, like French citizenship.

0:47 Adam and to this day, he is officially a fugitive from US justice.

0:47 Adam over the ensuing years, more stories have come out suggesting Polansky has had a predilection for young women or girls.

0:47 Adam including actress, Nastassja Kinski and Charlotte Lewis talking about times when they were young and he was creeping on them.

0:48 Adam

0:48 Adam Yeah.

0:48 Adam Hollywood alumni have continued to support Polansky.

0:48 Adam but these are no.

0:48 Adam They're becoming.

0:48 Adam Fewer by the year.

0:48 Adam Johnny Depp when questioned about appearing in The Ninth Gate claimed no prior knowledge of the case.

0:48 Adam Which, you know,

0:48 Lee I've got to say, I so again, I've clearly confused him with somebody else.

0:48 Lee Because I knew he was you know, there were there were the claims against him, for some reason in my mind, it was one of those he flew to a country where it was legal and did it.

0:48 Lee And then came back and was frowned upon.

0:48 Lee Like,

0:48 Lee in my mind, that was what happened.

0:48 Lee I didn't realize at all, right, okay.

0:48 Lee But anyway, let's not,

0:48 Lee This is supposed to be a comedy show, so let's not.

0:48 Adam Exactly.

0:48 Lee Let's not mention Polansky again and tear this film a new ass, because apparently that's what some of you have got planned.

0:48 Lee That's fine.

0:48 Lee No.

0:48 Adam I'll I'll be honest, I'm I'm not saying I'll never watch Marters again, but I know that I will have to be in a very particular state of mind and just want the universe to confirm that state of mind.

0:49 Manny Yeah.

0:49 Chris We'll gladly watch it with you on that day.

0:49 Adam Yeah.

0:49 Adam And it will not be a good day.

0:49 Lee We'll we'll,

0:49 Lee I was just going to say, I should explain for the.

0:49 Lee So at the time, we just said we were going to cover that and something's changed and we didn't do it.

0:49 Lee So what had happened is,

0:49 Lee I discussed it with Manny and he'd said, you know, I want to cover it.

0:49 Lee I said, yeah, great, that's fine, we'd put it in the diary and I'd said to Adam we were going to.

0:49 Lee And he was like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it came to the day before when it arrived.

0:49 Lee And I looked at the case and I was like, yeah, this isn't what I thought it was and I was like, I think I'm going to be broken if I watch this.

0:49 Lee And it's going to be.

0:49 Lee It's not going to be a funny podcast, it's going to be the worst episode.

0:49 Lee It's going to be a bit like, I remember I went out with a, I went to a pub once with a friend of mine for lunch and he told me the night before he'd watched a Serbian film.

0:50 Lee And honestly,

0:50 Lee every 20 minutes or so, he kept like just staring off into space and I go to him, James, are you all right?

0:50 Lee And he go, is that fucking film, man?

0:50 Lee And I was like, you know what?

0:50 Lee I don't, I don't need to watch a film that does that to me.

0:50 Lee I don't think I'm going to gain anything.

0:50 Lee And that's that's what I had visions of.

0:50 Lee I was like, I'm going to fuck myself up for the rest of my life for the sake of recording a podcast that isn't going to be funny.

0:50 Lee Because I'm just going to start crying, I was like, yeah, no, fuck that, I'm not doing it.

0:50 Lee So I apologize for the fact we never covered that.

0:50 Manny It's it's fine.

0:50 Manny The first time I bought it, I was going through a big because I go in and out of horror phases, I bought it, watched it, I love watching film by myself in the dark. That's the way to watch them.

0:50 Manny I've got a couple of friends, I will sometimes watch them with because they're fun to watch with, but generally I watch it by myself. Watched it and gave the DVD away because I didn't want to possess it.

0:50 Manny and then, and then I repressed it, to the point where where people were asking me what the worst film was, I wouldn't mention it because I'd repressed that I'd watched it.

0:51 Manny and then yeah, rewatching it, it's it's not scary.

0:51 Manny it's just incredibly dark and sad.

0:51 Manny and and it's yeah.

0:51 Manny It's it's.

0:51 Manny Yeah, grueling, yes, yeah, yeah.

0:51 Manny You feel like you're the one that's been tortured.

0:51 Manny and I don't want to watch it again.

0:51 Manny And now it just keeps coming up on Amazon Prime saying,

0:51 Manny Watch it again.

0:51 Manny I'm like, no.

0:51 Adam I'll I'll be honest, I'm I'm not saying I'll never watch Marters again, but I know that I will have to be in a very particular state of mind.

0:51 Adam And just want the universe to confirm that state of mind. And it will not be a good day.

0:51 Chris We will gladly watch it with you on that day.

0:51 Adam Yeah.

0:51 Manny I think,

0:51 Manny I think that's definitely a no.

0:52 Lee I can't see Claire plumping to watch that.

0:52 Manny Anytime, really.

0:52 Lee I don't. I I again, I think it's just it's.

0:52 Lee Yeah, it's definitely a Christmas film.

0:52 Lee I can't remember from what year it is.

0:52 Lee But it's quite a well.

0:52 Lee Yeah.

0:52 Lee Oh, no.

0:52 Lee I'm old.

0:52 Lee but yeah, and yeah, it's I mean, well, obviously.

0:52 Lee getting to it when we, when we when we do.

0:52 Lee So, but, yeah.

0:52 Lee It's definitely a Christmas film.

0:52 Lee And it, you know.

0:52 Lee There's there's Jesus and everything.

0:52 Lee So yeah, it's it's.

0:52 Lee It's definitely Christmas.

0:52 Lee Also,

0:52 Lee dead Christmas is what it says on the poster.