Bonus Ep Saudade & Wastelands
00:31:52
About
It’s another cheeky Welcome To Horror bonus episode, you lucky people! Here’s Chris and Adam’s spoiler free review of 2 more works from writer/director/producer/actor (and all round top man) Kemal Yildirim; his 2021 feature “Wastelands” and its companion piece, the 2017 short “Saudade”. A haunting drama of an isolated woman, estranged from her family and conducting an on/off dysfunctional relationship, shot with Yildirim’s stunning combination of dream-like imagery with very real (and sometimes shocking) domestic moments and a strong streak of folk-horror. Massive thanks to Kemal for giving us the opportunity to see more of his work after “The Haunting of the Lady Jane”. Catch these films where you can.
Transcript
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LeeGood evening everybody. Lee here. regular listeners will know that we recently did a supernatural stories episode or not, depending on your beliefs.
Leebut it seems to have gone down quite well and we've spoken to a few people who said they've got interesting stories of their own.
LeeSo as we tempted the idea at the end of our last episode, we're going to do a follow-up at some point.
LeeSo if any of you have stories of your own that you think would be interesting that you wouldn't mind us sharing with the listeners.
Leefeel free to either record them and email them over to us at info@welcometohorror.com.
Leeor otherwise you can type them out and send them to us and we will read them out on the show.
Leeif you'd rather not use your name, we will use your first name otherwise, but if you'd rather go under an alias, include that in the message and we'll be sure to use that.
LeeThanks very much and enjoy the show.
AdamGood evening and welcome to horror.
AdamI'm Adam.
ChrisI'm Chris.
AdamAnd we're here. We're we'll be noticing that Lee is not here.
AdamHe is currently.
ChrisIn his absence, yeah.
ChrisWhere is he? Where is he off to?
AdamWe don't know. He is out and about. The last I saw on the Interpol website was he was spotted somewhere around Berlin, so.
ChrisOh.
AdamYeah, so who knows, who knows where he may crop up next.
AdamHe's very much like the oh I can't remember that now. I was trying to think of it. What was the computer game that where in the world is Carmen.
ChrisCarmen Sandiego.
AdamYeah.
AdamYeah, so he is the Carmen Sandiego of welcome to horror, so you know.
AdamWe don't know. We don't know.
AdamHe may be, dear listener, look behind you. He will be in the room.
ChrisIf you see him.
Adamand yes, we're here. we're we're keeping the keeping the the the show running in in in Lee's absence.
AdamAnd we're here to discuss well, actually to discuss a couple of couple of films from Kamal Yildrim who we did a bonus episode on his current film The Haunting of the Lady Jane.
AdamAnd he was very generous enough to let us see a an earlier feature of his as well as a short film that kind of kind of links or kind of is a sort of proof of concept for.
ChrisPrequel, yeah, yeah.
AdamOr something along those lines. Yeah.
ChrisSame ideas.
AdamYeah. and so again, we'll we're going to urge we're going to on the side of spoiler-free because these are films that are not necessarily available to get at the moment or what they're, you know, they're they're available, but yeah, they're not I don't believe either's on general like release not on streaming or anything at the moment, so.
Adamwhich to be honest, is a bit of a shame because I think that he is a really good strong filmmaker.
AdamAnd I think, you know, hopefully these will as he's building as he's building his sort of portfolio.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisSo so so do we know so Wastelands, the one we're covering tonight, this was 2020, 2021?
Adam2021, I believe, yeah.
ChrisYeah. Okay.
ChrisAnd Sal Sal Dad, Sal Dad.
AdamSal Dad, yeah.
AdamThat was that was 2017.
ChrisOkay.
AdamSo so they're so one's pre and one's post-pandemic.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamIn terms of release. Although I believe I believe Wastelands was sort of filmed over quite a period of time.
AdamI think it was as, you know, and with like with a lot of independent filming, it's sort of like, you know, you don't necessarily have a schedule that you can keep to you have to sort of film as you can.
ChrisYou do what you can, yeah.
AdamYeah, you know.
AdamSo but yeah.
AdamSo to start with the the short film Sal Dad, which is a Portuguese word which means an emotional state of melancholic or profoundly nostalgic longing for a beloved yet absent something or someone.
AdamAnd I think that sums up the the main sort of feel of the film in its own way.
AdamAlso apparently in Brazil, there is a day of Sal Dad which is officially celebrated on the 30th of January, yeah.
ChrisOh.
AdamSo, although interesting enough that's in that's in Brazil, but not in Portugal.
AdamSo it's just yeah.
AdamBut
Adamyou've got, I mean, basically, Sal Dad is a three-hander.
AdamYou've got the main character of Alice played here by Holly Rose Durham, and Wilhelm her father played by Sean Botha.
ChrisYeah, who we saw previously.
AdamYeah.
AdamIn The Haunting of the Lady Jane.
AdamAnd Kamal himself plays the character of Triss who is Alice's ex-boyfriend as it as it's shown in Sal Dad.
Adamand yeah.
AdamI mean, basically it's I mean both both of these films are, they have a very thematically as well as the fact that characters are apparently sort of in both of them as I say, you know.
AdamSo Sean Botha is the father will help us.
ChrisYeah, so we've got some of the same actors.
AdamYeah.
AdamSome of the same actors and Kamal is playing the the character and the same character again in Wastelands.
Adamand
Adamyeah, I mean, I think.
AdamIt's, I think to discuss Sal Dad before discussing.
AdamIt's it's a bit of a tricky one because we're trying to obviously remain fairly spoiler-free.
AdamBut essentially it's, the the main character it's her sort of going through stages of grief for a relationship that is ended.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSo and pretty much a not particularly healthy relationship.
ChrisSo that's it, yeah, essentially the whole thing is her grappling with this difficulty and the dysfunction.
Chrisand I suppose it's like yeah, it certainly appears to be mental illness, but it's it's caused by the life events or like, you know, it's yeah, it is just a sort of very dark view through her her psychology.
AdamYes.
AdamIt's yeah, it's her mental state which is not in a good place, longing for a relationship that was not in a good place.
AdamAnd actually has been has clearly been ended by by by Triss the boyfriend because it's not healthy.
Adamwhich is basically and to not sort of take any power away from either film, but it's very much a sort of like let's rail until we shag.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisVery dysfunctional, very unhealthy, really.
AdamVery unhealthy.
ChrisAnd and but how how do you you know, it's yeah breaking the kind of cycle is very difficult.
ChrisBecause the yeah, the emotional attachment, it's like you're the only happiness you're getting is from some of those actions and really they end up just causing you more pain.
AdamWell, it's it's like any form of codependent relationship, I suppose is always sort of like, well, the good the good times are good, but they are literally in the moment sensation rather than any sort of yeah. It's not it's not a sustained good time or you know.
ChrisLong-term elation.
AdamIt's clearly falling apart.
ChrisYeah, you're only really heading towards some kind of destruction ultimately.
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd it's sort of at one point she's sort of meets up with Alice's character meets up with her father, and they have an argument, basically to do with the fact that he is with his like with his new wife and new family and that's obviously a sort of sort of resentment.
Adamand then it ends sort of yeah, again, ends on a severely dark note.
AdamAnd I would say prob probably again, it's it's definitely worth a worth a watch as part of the package.
AdamBut I don't think it's something that it's it's not it's not like a pre it's not like a prequel or anything else like that. It's not something you'd need to watch to understand the Wastelands.
AdamI think the Wastelands stands on its own and you know, you kind of get from Sal Dad the sort of it's almost like a compressed shot of.
ChrisYeah, it it gives you a clear taste of what you're going to get.
AdamYeah, it's like it's like a sort of it's like a pure hit of the emotional state that is sort of shown through the Wastelands.
Adambut I mean all in all, I think it's I think it's like 20 it's basically about 20 minutes.
Adamand but I mean as we said with The Haunting of the Lady Jane, you I can't fault his.
AdamEither like basically his his language of cinema.
ChrisSo yes, yeah, the overall effect like is is very good.
ChrisIt it seems to deliver you know, all of the elements seem to work well together to give you that that very dark you know, almost subtly brutal effect sometimes.
AdamYes, actually that's very true because it's because the weird thing is is it obviously it sort of it's that thing of sort of memory bleeding into the present.
AdamIt, you know, it can be quite dreamlike, it can be quite sort of impressionistic and, you know, he I mean from this the lady The Haunting of Lady Jane and everything.
AdamYou know, his cinematography is you know.
ChrisIt's excellent.
AdamLovely.
AdamYou know, I mean probably the wrong I don't know whether I was like.
ChrisWell, it is.
AdamBut.
ChrisYeah, yeah, this is I guess these are both somewhat relentless.
Chriswhereas that was interesting the difference with The Haunting of Lady Jane, he has added a lot more elements of humor and some light entertainment, yeah.
AdamYeah.
Adamso I think I think if we move on if we move on to the Wastelands because a lot of a lot of what we'd talk about with Sal Dad.
ChrisYeah.
Adammore so with the Wastelands and you just get an expanded story.
Adambut basically this in this iteration of the story, Alice is now played by Natasha Linton who was also in The Haunting of the Lady Jane.
AdamAnd she really is the focus of, you know, without a shadow of a doubt, she is the focus of the movie and the movie would not work without her.
ChrisYeah, it's her and it's her mind and what she's going through that is, yeah, like you're seeing it as close to her as possible, really.
ChrisAnd she she absolutely does play a very impressively tortured soul.
AdamYes.
AdamAnd really. I mean, so I mean the plot of the plot wrong sort of why I put it but but the Wastelands is essentially similar sort of story so you've got Alice who is again clearly extremely unhappy, extremely, you know, depressed, clearly isolated and not connecting with anyone, she's thinking about her, she's thinking about her relationship with previous relationship with her ex, which again, a very destructive, clearly not healthy relationship.
AdamAnd that's literally all she's got, the present the present means nothing to her.
ChrisBut that is the only yeah.
AdamShe's just sort of stuck in this cycle of you know, sort of.
AdamBut the interesting element which is brought in with the Wastelands is that she also is performing rituals.
Chris
AdamAnd it's sort of it's not really I mean, the thing I thing I really love loved about the start of this is that there's probably what is it like about 15 or 20 minutes before you get any dialogue.
ChrisYeah.
AdamWhich which sounds like it's sounds like it's not going to work, but you get, you know what's happening.
ChrisIt's it's yeah, it's getting the experience, you still get a sense of what's going on.
Chris
ChrisYeah.
AdamIt's show don't tell, so it's essentially, you know, it's essentially the right way to make a film.
AdamYou know, it's it's done through image and impression and you know, the sequences rather than.
ChrisYeah, I suppose it's it's like arthouse.
AdamYeah.
ChrisVery Yeah.
AdamVery much so.
AdamYeah, it's abstract is yeah, again very good, but.
AdamI think that yeah, so she's sort of like in this cycle of depression and clear unhappy.
ChrisDysfunction, yeah, not things are not going well.
ChrisAnd and yeah, and the only positive really is this relationship with her father.
ChrisAnd and then so so her father comes back into this one and he he has a a fatal.
AdamYeah, like he has Huntington's.
ChrisSo it's like a degenerative disease that basically.
AdamAttacks you so that you are unable to look after yourself because it basically destroys your ability to physically act and then eventually kills you.
ChrisBut and I don't think it's spoiling to say that she essentially has hated him for many years.
AdamIt's very yeah, it's very clear because it's clearly. And that's the interesting bit is you get so in this one again, William has Wilhelm has remarried, he's married a a character called Dolores who basically comes to Alice and says.
ChrisClearly, yeah.
AdamYour father's got this disease, we're not together anymore, you're going to have to look after him.
ChrisYeah.
AdamSo immediately there's clearly she has not seen him, she's not seen her father for some time, they're clearly very like they're clearly estranged and then he is literally sort of for want of better expression, or certainly how Alice would see it, he is literally dumped on her doorstep as look after this person because no one else is going to.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd it's sort of and it certainly exacerbates her you know, her mental deterioration.
ChrisWell, I mean, which makes her mental deterioration.
ChrisLike to to think if you were actually in this situation like so yeah, I mean just having to look after someone in that state is difficult. I mean that's somewhat traumatic anyway, then it's also it's your father who you have had a very difficult relationship with.
Adam
ChrisBecause you think certain things you've, you know, interpreting or understanding what they were to you, yeah, and trying to deal with that and and the dysfunctional relationship she's got with her ex.
AdamIt's the.
AdamWho then who then she basically in in a sort of attempt to deal with the fact that she's now looking after her father, she gets back in a relationship with him.
AdamAnd it's still absolutely all kinds of up.
ChrisAt least.
Adamyou know.
AdamAnd much as I should have said at the start of this that there won't be spoilers, but there probably will be swearing.
AdamI mean, Kamal was very kind in sort of like when he sent over, he was like, I'm going to make this, you know, I'll give you a trigger warning.
ChrisThis is not for everyone.
AdamThere is. This is not for everyone, there is a lot of there's, you know, there's a lot of nudity, there's a lot of sex in it, but it's not it's not titillating.
ChrisSo that's what I was going to say that.
ChrisHe he really I think filmed that really well in that there's something like it's it's got almost I don't know if it's like elegance, but it's it's filmed well, but yeah, in no way is it sort of erotic or as you said titillating.
AdamNo.
AdamIt's it's quite.
ChrisIt's clearly yeah, like and they have absolutely captured that just right. We're like yeah, no, that's not, you know, there's nothing feels good about that.
AdamYeah, this doesn't look like, you know, you're well, you shouldn't be looking at it anyway in that sort of and it definitely definitely doesn't. You wouldn't be looking at it going, oh, that looks like everyone's having a good time.
ChrisYeah, no.
ChrisAnd and yet it's still still it doesn't look trashy, like I was trying to imagine like how difficult that might be to film scenes like that and and get it across the correct way.
AdamEverything everything about it it has a desperation in it.
ChrisYeah, yeah, absolutely.
AdamWhich is, you know.
AdamThere's there's nothing, there's nothing to sort of suggest that this is, you know, this is anything that's really you know, this is this is not healthy, this is not good.
AdamAnd it's yeah, he he manages to film it. It it reminded me a bit of actually reminded me a bit of Antichrist, the Lars von Trier film.
AdamI don't know if you've seen that.
AdamBut that's like has a similar sort of thing where there's like a lot of there's a lot of sex, but it's all very sort of cold and brutal and as part of a downward spiral that is clearly no one's, you know, no one's coming out of it with anything good, you know, it's.
AdamAnd.
AdamYes, so and so essentially it's yeah, the the sort of it's the story, it's that that's the the sort of story of it and then that as it sort of progresses resolves into an ending that is ambivalent and the one thing that I would say is that.
Adambecause I know when Kamal said about like suggested that we view it, he said, oh he said, oh it's not horror, but it is horror adjacent.
ChrisYeah.
AdamThere's there's distinctly there's an ambivalence to it that could be Alice's mental deterioration or there could actually be something more to it.
ChrisYeah, there's scope there to interpret.
AdamThere is definitely.
ChrisHow you prefer, yeah.
AdamAbsolutely.
AdamAnd it has so it has a, I I think someone someone I saw like a someone talking about it and they said that it was they wasn't they weren't sure whether it was social realism dressed up as folk horror or folk horror dressed up as social realism.
ChrisOkay.
AdamYou know, where it's not sort of.
AdamAnd it's and again, I think that was something that The Haunting of Lady Jane sort of earlier in its shows its hand earlier by definitely being something of a supernatural.
AdamWhereas this you could read it absolutely that this is just someone's mental health.
AdamAnd you're you're definitely viewing it from Alice's mind.
ChrisYeah, yeah.
AdamAnd so, you know, with with all the unreliableness that that could entail.
AdamAnd actually, I mean that's something that I really love something again that I like with The Haunting of the Lady Jane and I like with this.
AdamIs that no one has a you don't have any side, you know, no one is everyone you know, Alice who is your main character is not, you know, she is not necessarily always likeable or always sympathetic.
ChrisI suppose that's it yeah, that's the true showing like she is what she is.
Adam
AdamAnd I think like sort of like certainly her relationship with her father is kind of the thing that brings that out where you're like, you know, because she is clearly not, you know, she I mean, it's not a situation that is in any way good, but she is clearly absolutely fighting against it and does not want to sort of she doesn't want to be in this position and she certainly doesn't want to be involved with her father again.
Chris
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd actually and but similarly you sort of you don't you as as it goes on you're sort of everyone's motivations do seem, you're not like for example, when the stepmother sort of says, oh, it.
AdamThat feels like oh, it's a cruelty of because the way Alice reads it is.
AdamOh, now he's ill, you don't want to know, but you were perfectly happy to go off with him when it was fine.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut there's no sort of there's no sense that, you know, the stepmother, they've not been together for like some time.
Chris
AdamSo it's not, do you know what I mean, it's not quite as cut and dried as she's left him.
ChrisI suppose that's yeah, but that's yeah, it is I guess the whole thing really is it's possible to interpret things from your perspective and not necessarily be getting it right.
AdamBut exactly.
ChrisBut it's how it feels and and yeah.
ChrisAnd especially if you are very emotional, it's it's difficult to to perhaps see the or be more reasonable and understanding.
ChrisI I guess that, you know, like so many things are complicated and it's sort of, yeah.
ChrisHow what can you do about them?
AdamYeah.
AdamAnd but as a filmmaker, I don't think he shies away from that sort of thing.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisSo so this is actually based on on I think some of his real experiences.
AdamYes, he said he I've he said that it was a certainly he described it as his most personal film.
AdamSo I don't.
ChrisYeah, okay.
AdamI don't know quite what the what the circumstances are of that, whether it was circumstantial or mental state or what how it sort of. But I mean obviously him being in it, because that's the thing that we didn't obviously he's not in The Lady Jane, but you know, and it's not just his own stuff, Kamal Kamal has appeared in other has appeared in other films, he is an actor as well as a director and producer, etcetera, and writer.
Adamand but yeah, I think but there's no sort of I mean, certainly there's no sense that he's like brought himself in as a you know, hasn't brought himself in to make himself look good.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBecause you know, all all as I say, there's a lot of flawed characters.
ChrisOh yeah, yeah.
AdamYeah.
AdamBut I think that the, you also there and also there is one character who again sort of I'm I don't want to give too much away, but would appear to be almost like a sort of like a guide or something not of reality.
ChrisBut again, Guardian Angel type.
AdamYeah, but you don't know whether that's actually because Alice is losing it or because that, you know, there is a supernatural slant to the story.
AdamAnd, you know, I think again, I don't think this is going to be for everyone.
ChrisWell.
AdamI don't think this would have the massive appeal that the Lady Jane would.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisBut I so I think, I was trying to imagine who else really would want to watch it, and I I do think it falls under horror, most of the people who watch horror would be the ones that would be able to say handle such a relentless dark experience.
ChrisSo yeah, even if it's not strictly what you imagine as horror, so I would absolutely categorize it around that.
AdamAgain, it remind it reminded me of something like because I can I can imagine I can imagine not rewatching this for maybe a couple of years or a few and then just suddenly like, I really want to watch that again.
ChrisYeah, potentially. I mean, I was thinking of I could see it similar to The Haunting of Lady Jane, I think there is quite a bit in here to process and get from it. It's just that it is hard going because it's so real, I'd say.
AdamYeah. I mean there is I mean, I would say again, like we said with the Lady Jane, I think there's there's a relentless repetition in the middle of it to but that kind of needs to be there to reinforce that mindset of where you are stuck.
ChrisJust how really would be.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut it could but it could that could go on longer than some people would tolerate.
AdamBut funnily enough the stuff it reminded me of is something like say, for example, David Cronenberg's Spider or or even like Possum or something like that.
AdamWhere it's very much.
ChrisYeah, definitely.
AdamIt's very much the sort of horror of it's the real horror of the dream psychological state in a way.
AdamIt's yeah.
AdamI mean I hope we've intrigued people with this.
ChrisI think I think that's yeah, some people would get a lot out of watching it. Absolutely.
AdamBut I but much like spider, I can see this is a film that I'd be like, I could imagine sort of 10 years down the line going, oh, fuck yeah, that's on.
AdamI've got to watch it because I remember, you know.
AdamSo so yeah.
ChrisIt's definitely intense.
AdamI think.
ChrisYeah.
AdamYeah, oh, absolutely. This is the sort of thing where yeah, this this is not for the, this is not some light-hearted, this is definitely not one you stick on at a party.
ChrisNo.
Adamyou know, or but then.
AdamYou and and as I say, I mean it just looks amazing, I mean there's certain sequences, you've got like for example, when she's talking to her stepmother.
AdamThere's a fantastic moment where they're having this very tense, but very sort of tight-lipped sort of conversation and just at the point it explodes into a rail, it cuts outside and it's done through the mirror and you can just see people silently bellowing at each other.
ChrisYeah, that was so.
ChrisOkay.
AdamAnd that is so effective.
ChrisYeah.
AdamAnd and gives you so much more than actually hearing what the dialogue is, because you don't need it, you just know that that is the breaking point of this sort of relationship.
ChrisYeah, so that's that's a good example of yeah, his skill in filming.
AdamDefinitely.
AdamYeah. And I could I could see and certainly I think for people who dug the Lady Jane, this is definitely if if you if you can if you can handle that darkness, that is definitely this is definitely another one to watch.
AdamAnd not just because you've got Natasha Linton, she and yeah, I mean she really knocks this out of the park because she is yeah.
ChrisWell, yeah, she's great, but but yeah.
AdamBecause it.
AdamIt is just focused on her and she yeah, really really does it well.
ChrisAbsolutely.
AdamTo the point where I'm sitting there actually, is everything all right at home?
AdamYou know.
ChrisSo.
ChrisYeah.
AdamBut but yes, so obviously, yeah.
ChrisMe and Chris both give them.
AdamWe give it a thumbs up.
ChrisDefinitely.
AdamAnd we would say go go seek it out.
AdamIf you've not seen Lady Jane, definitely watch the the haunting of the Lady Jane.
AdamAnd if you like that, if you like what you see there and certainly if you like the way the film is composed.
ChrisYeah.
ChrisThe dark, yeah.
ChrisThe overall aesthetic.
AdamDefinitely definitely go for the Wastelands. Yeah, definitely seek it out.
AdamSo, just a big thanks to big thanks to Kamal for just let me see it and yeah, well done mate.
ChrisAnd we look forward to the next one.
AdamYes, very much so, very much so.
AdamSo, well, hopefully Lee will be back with us by whichever episode is coming up next.
AdamAnd.
AdamWe shall see you then.
AdamSo it's a good night from me.
ChrisAnd good night from.
AdamMe.
AdamOh dear. See, I don't think we're going to I don't think the two Ronnies have got a lot to worry about.
AdamMostly because they're dead.
ChrisThey are. Yeah, they could come back.
AdamWell, there's a film.
AdamRight, well, thanks very much for listening everyone.
AdamAnd good night.
ChrisGood night.
